1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Train Sim World 2 - Marvellous Moab

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jun 25, 2021.

  1. LiquidShadows

    LiquidShadows Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    265
    Really? I wonder why they did that. I'd think that if they wanted accurate sounds from American freight locomotives that they'd jump on that. Either way, all I know is that they DO need to work on their sounds of the horns and prime movers 'cause the AC44CW sounds just awful. To me, the prime mover sounds more "whiny" and thin rather than loud, low and rumbly like it should be. Anyone who's heard an American diesel-electric loco in person will tell you that you hear it MILES before actually seeing it.
     
  2. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    9,948
    Have DTG explained why they rejected their offerings?

    Seems very unusual if they’re offering to help with sounds etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    2,862
    If I had to take a wild guess, maybe Searchlight did not record their own sounds like AP, and that would create a license issue.
     
  4. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,192
    Likes Received:
    3,839
    I think it was the other way around.
     
  5. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    My impressions

    1. The landscape is very good and unique.
    2. Terrain textures are a little boring and look like a cutout, on the transitions in between, especially close to the tracks.

    TSW.temp4.png

    3. All the promo screens we already saw were from PC, 200% screen percentage, for sure.
    PS version looks like 75%. Or the texture resolution is so low, or it is about YT video compression and codecs.
    Usually, it looks like this (I mean, the stream quality was bad again), so I am not very surprised.
    I am sure from the player's perspective it looks much much better.
    4. At dawn, the surroundings look not so flat because of the shadows.
    5. Sounds - missed opportunity for improvements. I am sad.
    6. Initial reduction ~ 10 PSI... Missed opportunity for improvements, again. I am mad.
    7. Presentation - chaotic (my very subjective opinion). I like SaMatt in-cabs more.
    8. All the above are not very serious problems, but for me points 2, 5 & 6 are a disappointment.
    9. Still, very excited. Instant purchase :) // because of #1 and of US freight operations.

    Overall, looks like GJ by Skyhook \o/ I hope the PC version is closer to the shots :)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,393
    Likes Received:
    5,373
    From the TSC Discord....
    20210626_081655.jpg

    Which that link goes to this post....
    20210626_081458.jpg

    In other words, DTG didn't like how much they would of had to pay them for the sounds.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  7. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    And, because of the headlights and/ or ditch lights, you "see" it miles before you hear it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. LiquidShadows

    LiquidShadows Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    265
    LOL! Yeah, those lights are crazy bright.
     
  9. LiquidShadows

    LiquidShadows Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    265
    Yeesh... It sounds like it was so bad that it actually created some animosity between them. Bummer, man.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    2,250
    That‘s a shame. None of us were there for the negotiations, so I‘m going to reserve judgement on either party. I still hope that DTG will find a way to get new sounds - either by recording it themsleves or through a third party. German sound seems to be constantly improving in the last releases thanks to TSG (I can‘t speak for the UK stuff) and I hope that the same will happen for US sound at some point.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  11. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Maybe once the situation gets better in the world the team will be able to travel to the US to record themselves the sounds.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    2,704
    Did they say if they were doing another stream on pc before release? I wanted to not spoil it for myself, but what you said about screen percentage has me wonder if the route will look as great as on the screenshots and trailers.
    Just checked and on my PC I am running the game at 124% screen percentage at the moment.

    Also, the PSI issue, will this be trouble gameplay wise? I followed some arguments here where some people said the breaks work as intended, and others said they don't, but I did not understand which one is correct and if it affects gameplay.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    1,673
    This is a different issue, with the air brakes. The initial reduction on these units is supposed to be 6 psi (down to 84 EQ) but the game simulates 10 psi (down to 80 EQ). This doesn't affect the gameplay much but it's such a simple physics change that makes the brakes a little bit more realistic and easier to feather.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  14. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    Yes, there will be another stream for the PC version. Matt typically streams at around 150%. This is also, unfortunately, a fault with the video compression. This last stream convinced me, the scenery is great, but I didn't enjoy watching it (video quality).
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    2,250
    Yes, for anyone interested, I just looked up official documentations on this and found a very interesting resource. It‘s a manual for brake usage by the Alaska Railroad. There is lots of useful advice for brake handling for stopping, reducing speed, etc in there as well, check it out :D
    648CB5B5-49A9-42A4-BC33-A64E149BE48E.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    528
    Either way, there have been a bunch of offers from the community to offer DTG some sounds for free, but either they got rejected too or weren't any good. As for sounds in the UK, I understand they might be a large part of playing the game, but I think that the UK trains already have way more realistic sounds than what we get in the US.

    Is COVID-19 still a big enough problem in the UK that people are unable to travel? Cases are rather low in the US and the only thing required is a quick test, but no quarantine as long as you are vaccinated. So hopefully they can send a few people over to get some decent recordings, and then implement those into older routes sometime this year.

    I also want to add that they are able to have good sounds in Train Sim Classic (2021), so there really is no reason they couldn't pull those sounds into TSW2. It really is a shame they won't do this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,879
    Likes Received:
    2,504
    Current guidance from the US is no entry from the UK unless absolutely necessary (sticking a microphone on a train is not classed as essential travel), plus on return to the UK you have to self-isolate for 10 days - I think they're concerned about the 'Delta' variant here and the relatively large amount of cases we have.
    Without going to someone based in the US, there'd be no way either Dovetail or Skyhook (both based in UK) would be able to source sounds.

    https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa
     
  18. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,393
    Likes Received:
    5,373
    Wonder if Dovetail would ever consider opening an office here in the states, maybe somewhere in the LA region. Would probably help with their US content as well as get them closer to Japan, Australia and South America.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    74
    Absolutely. The staffer(s?) in one of the streams even said something to the effect that we Americans like our locomotives big and loud, like everything else. The bell doesn't need to sound like it's being rung by a hunchback in a tower, but it should clearly announce the train. The horn, on the other hand, should frighten cows at two miles and loosen your fillings up close.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  20. LiquidShadows

    LiquidShadows Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    265
    LOL! This is one time where an American stereotype is actually 100% accurate.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  21. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    9,948
    This is actually an issue with the (many) core audio issues in TSW as there are various shortcomings. One other noticeable thing is that horns will stop sounding only from a few hundred meters away. This is because TSW has very few audio channels, so only a few sounds can play at once.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    528
    Alright, good to know. Again, anyone with professional recording equipment, (or heck, even just an iPhone would be better than sounds now) should get in touch with the devs and see if they can help. Or they could just use the far superior sounds that they recorded for TS Classic routes, but I'm gonna assume it's impossible if they haven't done it by now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    74
    Right on! headbanger2.gif
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,845
    Likes Received:
    6,936
    The problem is more legal and practical. Unless the chap with the pro recording equipment gets full permission in writing from the railroad in advance to record sounds and give/sell them to a videogame company, DTG can't, or can't prudently, use anything he records.

    Having said that, while that is unlikely with the big Class 1s, there are lots of little heritage railroads and short lines that might cooperate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    1,919
    You will have a lot of different light and weather conditions to enjoy ... But is is just what you like.
     
  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    You'd imagine, wouldn't you, that obtaining a license to publish the visual images of, say, a UP locomotive, the rights to the sounds of those locos would be part of that license. Would it be that unreasonable to request recordings of those sounds from the railroad itself?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    2,250
    Not unreasonable to ask for - just as it‘s not unreasonable for the answer to be no. Granting a license (and perhaps even access to the real locos) is one thing, but going out of your way to (presumably) buy expensive recording equipment to record sounds for that little simulator studio you granted a license to is something few, if any, railroads will do. Some of the ones that are more eager to work with DTG might be willing to do something like that, but I‘d expect the answer to be no in most cases.
     
  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    Actually I meant recordings that the railroads already had. This whole discussion seems a little unreal to me. Through all the years that DTG has had dealings with the Class 1 railroads, are we to believe that all those sounds have disappeared into the ether or can't be used in UE/ TSW2? Am I missing something here?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,845
    Likes Received:
    6,936
    Do railroads make a practice of taking hifi recordings of their rolling stock?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  30. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,033
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Why would a railroad have any recordings of their trains? It’s not a normal thing for a railroad to do. Even if they had some recordings, it’s highly unlikely they would be suitable for what DTG need to put in the game.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  31. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    OK, if you say so. I'm really not convinced, but let's leave it there.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  32. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    2,704
    All I gather from these posts is that people assume waaaaay too much.

    Literally no one of us has sat at the negotiation table for any of their license deals, yet somehow lots of people seem to be experts on what DTG and the respective other party can do, have to do or are allowed to do...
     
    • Like Like x 8
  33. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    998
    Good point. However, they could have picked a better TSW2 horn to reuse than the one on SPG. And, the one on SPG is significantly improved by justing adding some reverb that is already in the game in certain situations. All my opinion, of course.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    Agreed. As you say, the forums are replete with people who appear to have intimate knowledge of DTG's inner workings and the fine print of its licenses and business practices. I'm happy to admit my ignorance of both.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  35. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    528
    I think we’re just comparing them to other development teams, but to be fair, they seem very understaffed compared to most. It also seems that COVID-19 has hit them hard too. Hopefully they can hire more people soon, especially in their sound team.
     
  36. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    436
    When are they going to start putting dust from the wagons , I'm sure trains like this on this route would whip up quite a sand storm
     
    • Like Like x 1
  37. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Now, I couldn't recognize the real sound (or sounds) of an AC4400CW but with the mods (and thanks to those who create them with so much passion) everything seems more immersive and realistic.

     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  38. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    • Like Like x 6
  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,845
    Likes Received:
    6,936
    The one thing that really seems to be missing with any of the US diesels is the throbbing rumble that you feel as much as hear and which tells you the beast is coming a long way off.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  40. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    Can’t wait for its release next Thursday
     
    • Like Like x 5
  41. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2020
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    660
    Have you tried using a subwoofer?
     
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,845
    Likes Received:
    6,936
    Yes, and audiophile headphones too. It just isn't there, as if the processing uses a hard filter to clip off the low-end frequencies (this is actually pretty common with audio codecs).
     
  43. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2020
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    660
    You are probably right. Saves me from trying to hooking up my guitar and bass amp to my Xbox.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,033
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Given the choice of a constant low frequency rumble when playing and no constant low frequency rumble when playing I would definitely go with the latter. Really low frequencies are seriously annoying especially when of a constant nature. Even worse than being annoying to the player they can be intrusive to neighbouring properties too even at moderately low volumes. It is possible to convey the power of a train without the game audio producing the constant low frequencies a real train does and I would hope that DTG never try to emulate physical rumble through low frequency sounds becoming more prominent.
     
  45. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    3,354
    Searchlight did it good for the CP AC4400. Some parts of the cabin vibrate because of the engine rumble. Very immersive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,845
    Likes Received:
    6,936
    • Like Like x 1
  47. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    660
    Didn't DTG do a route recently for TS1 and they got a driver to record the sounds, the route was in the midlands UK and the drivers were keen to take part as many were fans of the game to start with. And going by this route you would of thought the drivers would be keen to help out as well especially as the route looks a bit boring to me.

    Maybe they can put in a Donkey or two? hahahha

    Even though I have no interest in these style of routes but plenty are, we are all Train fans here and I get the impression that sound is way down on the list. Look at the routes where the sound is right and the comments they get especially the older ones. I remember Train stations were noisy places, the screechy brakes, slowing engines, accelerating ETC. Give us decent sound or use AP more often.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  48. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    9,948
    That was the West Midlands Cross City line, which uses the Class 323. If I remember correctly, a conductor offered to record the sounds.

    However the setup/mixing of the sounds done by DTG was done EXTREMELY bad, as they weren’t at all in sync with the speed/power of the train. It was deliberately masked in the live stream as they always used full throttle/power out of the stations to try and hide the issue. It was quite a cheeky move by DTG.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,845
    Likes Received:
    6,936
    Again: the raw sound files are only the beginning. The magic is in the mixing.
     
  50. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,033
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    It’s possible that the conductor didn’t record the sounds correctly or get all the sounds necessary. It’s a specialist task and not just a case of recording some sound in a train, as that could result in sounds that can never match exactly what the player is doing. All the steps in the process have to be done well to get good train audio. It’s why so many sounds are reused. It’s also why DTG are reluctant to get sound from people just offering help.
     

Share This Page