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Train Sim World 2 - Now All Summer Long

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Now it’s £34.99 for three routes I’ll stick to buying just Brighton - London Victoria for £24.99. I may purchase the NEC once it’s on sale, as for the German route, I don’t care, I’d never have driven it and I’ll never buy it. So I feel this decision is a good one from DTG, it gives people the choice of route(s) they want.

    I also don’t mind the staggering of routes being released, rather than dumping three routes on us all at once. More on this shortly..

    The actual price of £34.99 for a season ticket is still good value (if you want all three routes), £11.66 per routes is brilliant value.

    Back to staggering routes, I just wish DTG would say they’re behind schedule and due to this we’ve decided to stagger the release dates as well as introduce a season ticket. Like I said, I don’t mind the price increase as it’s still a very good deal but I wonder where they’ve plucked the price from given it was £24.99 last year even after TSW 2 was delayed.
     
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  2. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Why not ?
     
  3. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    Because the people at DTG seem to like to disappoint people
     
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  4. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem with it is actually just that you have announced something that you cannot keep and that it has even deteriorated overall. You could have got around that very easily by only announcing it when it is really ready to be said. Then you wouldn't have all the trouble now.
    From my point of view, you could cancel the whole package and publish the routes normally and individually. At normal prices. Right from the start it was a mystery to me why you really wanted to sell 3 tracks for the price of one. If you don't have enough time and money for the development, then please split it up and sell it normally instead of getting everything for too low a price and thus time pressure and poor quality. That doesn't help anyone.
     
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  5. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    One Problem is that the TS and TSW DLCs are overpriced and too expensive to other Games. You paid 30€ for one Route but many routes are not worth this price like Cane Creek or Cathcart Circle.
    One this boring and Cathcart too short or paying 14€ for a Loco.
    When you get on other games 3 Well Modelled Cars for 10€ like a Ferrari, Lamborghini and Venom on Project Cars 3 inklusive Carriere Races to drives.
    Or on a Wrestling Game like 5 wrestlers for 8€
     
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  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Comparing different markets is pretty pointless. Racing games can sell a whole lot more copies than a train simulator.

    So far, pricing of TS and TSW seems pretty similar to their competitor Trainz.
     
  7. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    Because right now, after yesterday's exciting announcement, everything is possible. In a good way and, unfortunately, also in a bad way.

    What is going to be next? Route shortening? Route extending? Price increase? Price decrease? More trains? Fewer trains? Nobody knows.

    People are extremely disappointed since this time, the release already had an official announcement, store page, FAQ and now it has been silently changed as if they were hoping people wouldn't notice.

    Edit: Furthermore, it is not the first major disappointment since the release of Train Sim World franchise. Multiplayer, Editor,...
     
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  8. JPGamingUK1

    JPGamingUK1 New Member

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    Actually appalled by this!! So let me get this straight first off all 3 routes we're coming out together for £24.99.. Now they are being staggered through the summer with a £10 increase, so we are getting recycled trains (again) and have to wait longer for each route and being expected to pay more?? Dovetail are you seriously trying to alienate your player base or what... I understand you need to increase prices it happens but a jump of £10 and then expecting everyone to wait for what they have paid for (and be riddled with bugs) you seriously are just taking the P now. But should we expect anything else from you, been waiting for bakerloo line aswell as many other issues to be fixed for over a year....... Was hyped for Rush Hour, but I definitely won't be paying £35 for it..... I'm out
     
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  9. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Let’s just hope today’s news is great
    Otherwise
    Uh oh stream
     
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  10. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    Personally, I still think the new price is very good value for 3 routes. The big mistake DTG made was to announce the original price a few weeks ago.... should've kept quiet.

    I always thought it was too low for what we are going to get.

    But I understand peoples frustrations. The reduction of route length for the German route is disappiointing for the folks who were looking forward to it - if it happened to the UK release I too would be frustrated.
     
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  11. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

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    For me with rush hour I am only going to be getting the brighton mainline Becuase I am a British Player like that and I am a massive fan of the brighton mainline, i actually do not mind the price much at all, I think I will be happy with BML by itself
     
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  12. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    I think I will get rush hour still with the gaping issues just for variety, but I am very let down if there is not the network of branch lines, that’s what made Cathcart a great purchase
     
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  13. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    There's a saying in England relating to the inability to organise excessive drinking in a brewery which I'm sure if I posted it word for word, DTG Threadlocker, sorry Natster would delete or close the thread.

    However it does seem quite an appropriate description of the current situation and DTG in general!
     
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  14. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Same, I’ve been on East Coastway a lot, to master the 377/4 and because it is my most local route.
     
  15. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    Exactly it feels like this dlc is still WAY off in the distance. If it was nearly done they would have the release date and pre orders up. I dont think were going to see this dlc finished til late October.
     
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  16. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    without the branches, the new DB BR 143 is banished to uselessness. In real life This train is only used on the S2 and the only section of this line is now between Dresden HBF and Dresden Neustadt. That's 4 train stations
     
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  17. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone wanted three routes but with them being added, You essentially got two routes for free, I would have driven them, Now I'm being expected to pay for routes I'm on the fence about, full price as well, Not everyone can afford to buy the season pass at £34.99, So they'll probably have to buy the routes separately, I don't fancy spending £48 extra for two routes. I'm out.
     
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  18. SLBM

    SLBM Active Member

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    Well, still important for volume of traffic around the Hbf I suppose, so I'll rather have them than not have them. And let's see if we're even going to have them, as someone might get some "optimisation" idea from this...
     
  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Why though? For £10 more you will get two more routes. You obviously aren’t only interested in UK routes because you have made lots of suggestions on these forums for routes in all three countries and other parts of the world. It can’t be the money because if all your suggestions for routes were actually made it would cost you thousands such is the number of suggestions you make. I don’t understand your logic.
     
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  20. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    For those worried about London-Brighton being cut, they will not be able to do this once season tickets have been purchased as people will have paid money for a product as described. The thing that worries me though is that we don’t know how buggy or how lifelike or otherwise the route is going to be. Normally, you can get a good idea from watching the pre-release streams (which are usually accompanied by comments, constructive or otherwise, from the user base). This will not be possible with the season ticket system unless we hold off buying the other two routes until Brighton is released. Effectively they can release any old bobbins without having to promise a “day one” patch based on user comments as they will already have our hard earned.
     
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  21. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, just maybe, with the removal of the branch lines and their associated traffic, the route will have half a chance of actually running on the old consoles. I’ve had my doubts that it would work in its original form because of it being like a megaHMA in its design at the Dresden end. I wonder if this was part of the reason the branches have been removed rather than just time constraints.
     
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  22. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I mean... look back at the responses given regarding the IC cab car, the wrong dostos, the headlights of the HBL loco... it will be along the samle lines. They have been out of touch for a long time I am afraid, otherwise they would have either not planned any of the before mentioned or done them right in the first place.
     
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  23. LodeStar

    LodeStar Member

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    I am afraid you are right on that...I thought the same thing last night. And I think they had some hard nuts cracked in the production-team about this. Tough design decisions had to be made I suppose...because performance was lacking.

    Catering for all (!) platforms has been hampering progress on this game...a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  24. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    But the new consoles and layer control should mean they can layer the routes and give players the choice as to which layers they use, this should allow more complex routes with the player given the choice as to how much they actually have running at any one time.

    Otherwise, yes it is massively been held back because DTG have given themselves another self-imposed limitation of one-size-fits-all.
     
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  25. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    When you make all night long this bad decisions and ignored the Community, I don’t spend any full price DLCs anymore, what is not Germany after Rush Hour.

    DTGs Standard are poor and Bug Festivals after and After again without fixing huge issues like Texture glitches and lighting issues on Cathcart.
    Or missing the entire Skyline at Essen Hbf and having rushed and unfinished tracks on Rhein Ruhr Osten.

    It all lies and Marketing talk that they don’t make the Branches about Quality issues.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  26. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    What about Run 8? They're a much smaller title, and yet most of their routes are $40 despite the smaller install base. And their loco packs, which contain five variations of a engine, and are basically fully function replicas of the locos, are the same as what DTG normally charge for a single basic engine. If DTG really can't lower the prices then why can Run 8 offer this stuff for a very competitive price, and offer features DTG can't?

    And even TS Classic itself has examples of other places out doing DTG, the majority of content by Bossman is the same price as a normal DTG engine. So Bossman was pretty consistently able to make accurately modeled and good sounding engines with pro level features for that price, and yet DTG can't? It's pretty clear something screwy goes on at DTG, maybe it's plain old greed, or maybe the team's bloated and mismanaged, I tend to think it's the combination of the two.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  27. SLBM

    SLBM Active Member

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    That's one way to look at it. But there is probably also a commercial angle, which may very well say that without catering to all platforms, there would be no progress at all, because the whole project would not be feasible in business terms. Of course I have no hard numbers to confirm that, but it seems logical to assume that they would not have taken trouble to develop a multi-platform game, if they could expect similar returns on investment in a PC-only product. And as much as it may be frustrating to the PC crowd (to which I belong myself), it's unlikely to change.
     
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  28. LodeStar

    LodeStar Member

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    Oooh, for sure it was part of the decision/consideration to start a new train simulator!
    I would rather like to give everybody owning a PS4/Xbox a decent PC so we can finally move on and leave consoles (and Train Simulator) behind us and steam ahead for the future! Consoles (traditionally) are never intended to be used for simulators anyway! ;)

    But alas...understandable on DTG's part of course.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  29. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    You have MSFS coming out on Xbox, that hasn't stopped them from making powerful dev tools for the PC platform for use by third parties. You can make PC only features to cater to that crowd, while still catering to the needs of other platforms. That was what DTG were planning to do at least at one point mind you, as they had a public editor up and running and even showed it in action. But figures they didn't do their homework and picked a engine that apparently doesn't allow them to release that to the public.
     
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  30. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

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    Ok Well if you don’t like looking at my suggestions don’t look at them then… I also like routes/trains in other parts of the world but I mostly like UK routes , also if I have 10 more quid I would do the three routes but sadly I can’t pull money off a money tree, you're true when you say I am not interested in UK routes SPECIFICALLY your right about that, and it’s my choice what I get with rush hour and if I want to get brighton mainline nobody is stopping me
     
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  31. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone confident that cutting the branches on BRD will raise the route standard in terms of bugs and so on?

    Given DTG history I haven't believed to that statement even for a second.
     
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  32. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Well, if they'd have to make the full uncutted line within the same time frame ( =budget), then it'd probably end up with more bugs and less quality, so yes, in a way I do believe their statement.
     
  33. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    It's a minor branch, but quite important, as it is used as a terminus for Southern services that would terminate at Redhill, but doing so would block every single running line when the train reverses.
     
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  34. frank351981

    frank351981 Member

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    That´s what me surprised too - the announcement of THREE Routes for Roush Hour. AND for the same time. ANDfor a package price of one standard route. I don´t understand generally the price politics of DTG with their DLC´s especially in TSW. Short time after release lots of them are already reduced in pricing (like something as a trash sale). But its another topic. (And I don´t care if the three routes together will cost 40€. 50€-60€ itself for all three would be a bargain). What me too a little scared is the quality that now will perhaps come to us. A good/better one, because of more time? Or something like a false/wrong/missing skyline as the above example with the Rhein-Rhur Duisburg-Bochum DLC, because the now additional time will be not enough too?.
    Initially i was interested in Dresden-Riesa & London-Brighton. First one has dissolved in thin air. The second: I become now doubts of the quality. Seems I save up additional 40€ :D

    Fact is: DTG has miscalculated their Rush Hour project and had it too "rush" announced
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  35. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    To me, this kinda seems like they put too much pressure on themselves trying to release 3 50+ mile-long routes at the same time and now they realise they can't complete them all for a simultaneous release which is why they've had to delay BRD and BML. If they had said they were going to do a staggered release from the beginning I don't think it would be getting such a negative reaction from the community.

    Because of this, I fear all three routes will turn out like SEHS and HHL when they release.
     
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  36. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    All these issue showing now before even as much as a first stream of showing off the routes is worrying
     
  37. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Member

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    Unreal does allow modding kits with editors, there has been plenty games that use UE4 and have a modkit, Bus Sim 18 being one of them, even matt P made a mod for Bus sim 18, parity isn't working, and I think pretty much majority of console users know they can't have mods, the PC version has the prospect of being the definitive version, but instead it's hampered by the last gen consoles.
     
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  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to me is that, between switching off last night and logging on this morning, 2 pages have been added to this thread, and, tellingly, many posts are from people who rarely if ever participate in the forum. I can't keep up with the volume.

    Back on topic, it's clear that the only real issue is the cutting down of the Dresden route. I think a clear explanation of why this was done and why it was not mentioned "up front" in the article, rather than somewhat hidden in an updated Q and A which fewer people would refer to, should be part of the stream today.
    The spreading out of release dates and the price hike are pretty easy to understand and shouldn't be major issues for most of us. But, again, the real reasons should be spelled out on the stream. If it was a simple case of biting off a bit too much there's nothing wrong with admitting that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  39. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Part of the issue, is that DTG are in effect now asking people to pay up front for 3 routes, 2 of which won't be released at the time of payment. You could of course wait for all three routes to be released and then buy them or pay for each route individually as they are released.

    If you want more than one of the routes then it makes financial sense to pay the £34.99 than 3 lots of £24.99.

    Question is how much do you personally trust DTG, to warrant buying something that you probably haven't even seen a preview of.
     
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  40. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Well, not a lot now.
     
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  41. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t Trust Dovetail after all ;)
    They don’t work how we want TSW 2 as experience, they want only earn our money with poor Quality
     
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  42. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Me here just waiting for today’s announcement
     
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  43. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, of course, if you buy a season pass to a baseball team or a theater, you don't know how well they'll play or perform or even if you'll enjoy all the games or the shows.
    But, in terms of TSW2, you have a valid point. Not everyone will be interested in all three routes. But, even if you just want one of them, it still makes sense to buy the season pass. You might change your mind about one of the others in the future, and it's just a few dollars more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  44. bytownrailwayman

    bytownrailwayman Member

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    Unfortunately previous experiences with DTG have shown this not to be the case. Oakville Subdivision was shown to have extensive industrial trackage shown during in game previews via an in-game map, in the manual, and within the description. On release, I played a few runs including switching on a bit of industrial trackage, but when I went to explore the rest of the area shown in the manual I was unceremoniously kicked back to the main menu. Freecam glitches showed that while the track existed, the area was never completed. This led to quite the uproar.

    The solution from DTG was not to complete the area as initially described, but to edit the manual and description, and remove the preview video. While this solved the issue for new players, those who had played TSW for 2 hours on any route following their purchase were ineligible for a refund. The Season Ticket does not promise London-Brighton as described. It promises access to a route called 'London Commuter', as described when the route releases. Anything can happen between now and then, and once you've played 2 hours on any route following the Season Ticket purchase, you're ineligible for a refund if things change beyond what's satisfactory for you. I was hopeful that DTG had moved past their challenges so that I could trust the Season Ticket model. With the removal of branches and renaming of routes, I am not as confident.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  45. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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  46. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Well (From TSC-Discord):
    Capture.PNG
    (Just don't shoot the messenger here)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  47. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    No, you are right, I came to the same conclusion after reading this

    Epic Exclusive for a week!? But why all this? Oh my who plans this campaigns!?
     
  48. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    So they're charging existing players 40 euros for three new routes so new ones can get three routes for free (the base routes), an earlier upgrade to 4.26, and earlier preserved collection fixes to SKA and Bakerloo.

    It now feels like existing players have to pay more for less content (due to the removal of branches) so new players can have a game we payed 30 euros for for free (while getting a better version sooner to add insult to injury). Way to treat your existing playerbase DTG...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  49. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what it is. Epic games give away one or two titles every week in their store and from 29th July it will be TSW2. Once downloaded, it's yours to keep forever. Not just for the week as the article could appear to imply depending on how you read it
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  50. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    If I said I was feeling a little pissed off I would be lying. This is really the biggest pile of :mad: that DTG has ever produced. First ask for more Money for 3 Routes but on the other hand give away 3 Routes for free. WTF.:mad::mad::mad:
     
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