Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Sep 29, 2021.
From where? Not familiar with freight on this line
Although the 37 was conceived as a dual-purpose locomotive, and a few of the original set were built with steam generators for Mk 1 coaches, only the 37/4 rebuilds had electric HEP, and those were used for passenger duties in Wales, not the southwest.
I’m starting to wonder what livery the 37 will be in. Anyone got any guesses?
Big old white and blue BR logo anyone? With yellow nose? (For the 37, given up on the hst for this route unless it is going to be DLC later)
That's my guess for it.
I’d be quite happy with regular BR Blue honestly, if that was still around.
Which railfreight livery?
Grey large logo, Red stripe, Coal sector, Construction sector, metals sector, Rail express systems, Dutch engineers... I’m sure you get my point by now.
Yes, the one with tankers full of cheap Jamaican lager, please!
In the timescale the route is set (early 1990s), the Cornish class 37s were all based at Laira (Plymouth) and shedded at St Blazey. They were allocated to the Railfreight Distribution sector. This is 37672 (named 'Freight Transport Association') at Lostwithiel in 1992. Sorry for the quality of the image but I took it off one of the videos I took at the time. Note the difference to the nose of the 37/5s on TVL.
Ballast in the early 1990s would come from Meldon Quarry near Okehampton in Devon. Both loaded and empty CCE (Civil Engineer) trains would be stabled at St Blazey yard, east of St Austell and not featured in the Rivet route. Seacow wagons would be loaded with fresh ballast and Turbots with used ballast. They were not very frequent trains and would be scheduled to run to an area before CCE staff closed the line during a weekend possession, normally a Sunday. I don’t know how they will feature in the sim except to run through St Austell to Truro to be stabled in the sidings north of the station. Seacows would run west loaded and Turbots run west empty.
Really can't wait for this one!
Of course, it's a shame and sort of surprising that the HST was not included, but the 150/2 is going to be great!
I do think that modelling a new HST would have been a better idea than modelling a new 37, which already exists in TSW in the same (sort of) era. Maybe we will get a DLC one day...
I reckon this will be out in November
- St Ives population seems to have been plummled with a giant lawnmower
- Extremely poor horizon detail
- Wrong foilage
- Poor sand texturing
- Repeat water textures (again)
- Poor edge blending between grass and rocks (can clearly see its a seperate modelled asset designed to be plopped anywhere
- Trackside grass/foilage almost devoid/non-existant
- Repeating rocks, no attempt at randomisation
- Extremely clean, non-weathered sidewalk. Very odd for a seaside town
- Extremely oversized trees. Particularly done as an excuse to hide the need to place objects beyond the treeline
- Signalbox wrong colour
- Penzance retaining wall wrong material/colour
So far I'm on the three R's with Rivet. Refund (DB BR 204), Regret (Isle of Wight) and Refused (Arosa Line). The class 150 looks nice here, but all I see is a botched attempt at one of the most picture-esque British routes. And the mistakes made here are almost the exact same ones made on previous routes. At least DTG actually show they are attempting to improve themselves.
Anyway I'm done. I really don't want Rivet to do any more British-based DLC is TSW.
I don't want Rivet to do any more DLCs for TSW, full stop. No route or country deserves to be represented that poorly in TSW. Rivet don't care, all they want is the money. That's why they make routes that are beautiful in real life despite knowing they can't properly represent them in game.
Dear Rivet Games (since you won't approve of this on your own forums),
Do the Seacow and Turbot wagons get there own sounds rather than the "shopping cart" sounds in the core? Also, I'm confused as to why the 37/5 was elected as a feature of this route and not something like the newer Mk2, Mk2f, coaches and a different locomotive. Having done the Seacow and Turbot wagons, the Mk2fs aren't a stretch.
Also isn't sand supposed to be bright yellow rather than brown like mud?
All of the screenshots provided are dark and lack any sort of vibrance compared to these photos (which is just reference material, a 5 second google):
I'd suggest that the colour composition for the entire route gets looked at again. As well as the lacking distant scenery shown here at St Ives.
Which clearly shows a distinct lack of buildings... seriously lacking and inaccurate. But also the landmass is legitametly incorrectly sized. This leg of land stretches a lot further away than that and you can see the grassy hill in the back of the photo with a building on top. There's more beach and over a hundred houses situated on this stretch of the coast. In addition, where is the walkway adjacent to the car park?
Why does Penzance have so many trees in this DLC? There's clearly nowhere for them to grow because A) the building is 200m away from rocks and water B) it's surrounded by road infrastructure and has a car park with built stone walls on both sides C) there's literally houses across the road.
"We have worked on blending the waves together, so it doesn’t look as tiled" - so is this image out of date or something? Marketing is art.
I think this gap between the train and the platform is a bit excessive; that's a good half metre.
Works of fiction can't be endorsed, not gonna lie. "We had a lot of reference material from past to present" - you've claimed to have extensive reference material but you (as a studio) have gotten all of the scenery wrong so far. Yet as of the third route DLC produced here with yet again wrong environments, the scenery quality is improving. The only thing left to get correct is sounds and physics. Given that Armstrong Powerhouse legit has your recordings, the 150/2 must be good if they can mix it like that right?
Having just posted a photo of Penzance, that wall is dreadful and inaccurate... again. Rivet has failed to take any care in the environment for WCL. There should not be this many trees... Penzance is built up, not to mention on a hill.
Literally, Penzance is a built up town crowded with houses with little space for trees. If Rivet is going to continue fooling around while DTG and Skyhook continue to provide at least standard quality products and sometimes going the extra mile as they do, I think Rivet should be rested and retrained before producing anything else. This subpar attention to any sort of route detail is ruining TSW's brand image. I am outraged to say the least given how this area of the UK will not likely be revisited... tainting Cornwall with a distasteful excuse.
The overall quality of the route drags down individual models. If Rivet really wants to grow at all, they have to do better than this. In its current state, WCL is better off being gutted and reproduced.
I agree with just about everything that has been said here. And I would not at all be bothered if Rivet are removed from the 3rd party program for lack of care for their products. This quality is not acceptable.
Cornwall is a beautiful part of the UK, but we have now lost any chance of getting a good representation of the area in TSW because Rivet chose to make it knowing full well they have no interest in doing it justice.
Rivet is by far the best third party developer we have in TSW2, just because you lot are hard to please and nit-picky doesn’t mean they should stop developing content. Besides can’t people learn from their mistakes? Also I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. “WORK IN PROGRESS” is in the bottom right corner for a reason, I’ve noticed that rivet like to show us DLC that their making a lot earlier than DTG would with theirs, so I bet this is nowhere near the finished product.
- We go through this cycle every Rivet release
- Best? Pah no. They are 1/2 current devs, and so far I think Skyhook put alot more effort into their release, despite reviews.
- The "best developers" are currently sitting on steam scores of 50%, 47% and 47% in chronological order.
- Rivet chose to release this imagery to try and hype/sell me on something.
- Missing an entire town isn't nit-picky, it's laziness.
- Rivet has had at least opportunities to learn from their mistakes. I don't see evidence of a 4th here.
I don't wake up, and sit here... dreaming about how I'm going to bash Rivet today. But they have shown no real drive to polish what are meant to be...some of the prettiest routes in the world. Each release has consistently demonstrated that their scenery is sparse, and locomotive physics are weak. And when we ask why things are the way they are, we're given sob stories on how "the tech doesn't exist" "it takes too long" "we have to think about console". When we know that UE4 is an extremely capable engine for most competant developers. Even more laughable when the respective routes in TS Classic, hold up better than in TSW.
You must be new here, as most of the time that means absolutely nothing and nothing changes from the "WIP" shots and final release.
That's now approved, our anti-spam filter is a bit too fast sometimes. Sorry!
Thank you for all the feedback we received here! It's really good and we're looking at how we can update/modify different parts scenerywise. Thanks again!
Nah I’ve been here for a while, I guess I’m just a bit too optimistic sometimes haha
Jasper_Rivet Could you at least try get the dome of the impressive bank building at the top of Market Jew Street in shot, I know it probably beyond the normal vision of the game seeing as its so far away but it is an Icon of the PZ sky line?
If you are really clever, the Scillonian 3 alongside in the harbour would be good too
The problem with Cornwall fishing villages is they grew organically, it doesnt look right having blocks of houses!
Just a quick note:
We've been listening to your feedback and went back to St. Ives and Penzance and worked on both. We believe that the result will look / is looking much better than what we had until now.
Unfortunately, we can't fix everything - and whilst the water for example was drastically improved, we can't re-invent the wheel. Although we try to add at least a new tire to it (see the added foam for example).
We're very happy to keep up the communication with you!
Only with Paxman Valenta engines and Intercity Swallow livery.
Pics or it didn't happen!
Jasper_Rivet Hi there, I've made an updated comparison to try and help you guys fix some of the flaws in the scenery. I shall also list down below what I think should need changing.
Changes required part 1:
- Replace the 'mud like' beach with actual sand textures
- To the top right of the picture, remove the warehouse type assets and remodel the land appropriately. Needs to have a lot more elevation, as well as having properties on the face of it, not directly on top of it
- In the bottom left corner of the screen, there is a car park, which should be populated with cars.
- More trees are required, separating the railway to the beach
- More trees are required around the beach edge and station car park, near the rock faces.
- Please remove the awful looking tarmac path and benches on the beach - it is not there in reality. The adjacent footpath is at a higher elevation, separate to the beach
Changes required part 2:
- More trees required separating the station car park with the properties above. That bare green terrain should not be visible.
Hope that helps
Just remember they are dealing with 1990 not today...there will have been *some* changes since 1990!
Jasper could you confirm that the gwr hst will be a layer for the route? Whilst not historically accurate with current GWR logo it will give people the opportunity to re-skin it with a appropriate Livery in Livery designer when available.
Please do Jasper_Rivet take this suggestion as something to be escalated to DTG as I am sure the community would appreciate the layer albeit without the correct markings as things stand (unless you already have a hst dlc surprise planned in IC livery!)
Scenery aside, the 37 is a very odd choice for the route. If any other stock could layer in it may be vaguely passable, but WCL will be the only 90s UK route when it releases. To have the opportunity to modify/reuse a DTG loco and use something with no regular work in the area, rather than say an extended range 47/4 and some Mk2e/fs for XC workings or a Valenta HST for HSS work, will leave the route feeling very bare. I know you guys don't seem to care about realism these days (the IoW debacle makes that quite clear) but the gameplay on the route will be very dull if a realistic number of 37 services are in the timetable, which would be maybe 4 tops.
Agree no more than 4 x 37 services. The hst as a layer is a must surely. Still waiting for jaspers reply on this...
How many stops would the HST have on this route? Don't need another one stop route to bore us to death with (especially as there's no high speed lines down this end of the country)
I know what you mean Roscoe, however I think in the 90s the hst stopped at all stations (apart from "cambourne on wednesdays") - for the members of a certain age that will make sense
Even from a not-gameplay perspective, I think having the HST would be important for visual variety on the route (that IC Swallow livery is both sensational and quite iconic for the West Country at that time in my mind)
I completely agree Matt, hopefully Jasper_Rivet will give us a update before he clicks or clocks out for the day.
Really excited for this route, great to have some dirty 150/2 action on the go. These will be a great addition to NTP and TVL for those who like to use the planner also
HST stop at every stop- except occasionally Hayle...
They only miss out the eastern stations of St Germans, and the like on some occasions.
SO HST is basically a stopper... OK
Blimey that's pretty. Initially I thought the route looked pretty good but I must admit that I was largely focusing on the railway, rolling stock and nearside scenery - I hope St Ives ends up looking a bit more like the above shots (especially with the azure water).
Maybe Jasper could show us an updated version taken at the height of summer as it would show it off better?
Couple more poi’s Hayle viaduct (leads to estuary) St Michaels Mt as seen from Long Rock and Penzance Station and surroundings.
"I think if they put the HST on, we would all be frustrated at crawling it slowly between 55 and 75mph..."
If you want an HST on the route - and why not - The 'crawling' (and relatively frequent stops) would be realistic. The driving challenge for the HST on the Penzance - Plymouth route is the varying grades and line speed - even more so the Cross Country Voyager consists.
Surely with a Valenta you want a few stops so you can scream away.
Rivet has just released a first look on the 150:
Tees valley line???
That is set in 1988 or 89
So I gave her a portion....
And I got the reference, being in my 40s
I just love when Rivet Games puts out these little teaser videos before their routes even release.
Separate names with a comma.