Train Sim World 2: Raildriver Support

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    To be pedantic: You don't need the 3-4 pages of index and I might suggest to use duplex mode while printing. The most recent version is 9 printed pages for me (I don't cut them out anymore ... got pretty tedious during the last 12 beta month hehe)
     
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  2. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Here you go https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ouid=111514735588177976561&rtpof=true&sd=true
     
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  3. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't be 22 pages, its about six on A4 paper. I don't put them under the plastic anymore, every loco is different I keep them in front of the RD now.
     
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  4. skendel

    skendel New Member

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    Yeah, I'd have to pull out my old, crappy printer to do duplex. New one doesn't have that. It's a good idea, though.
     
  5. skendel

    skendel New Member

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    Something I just found out. I was just trying to do the Sand Patch Grade Y111 - Car Shop Deliveries scenario (at least that's what I think it was called. that's the info I got off the screen that shows how you did at the end) that uses the SD40-2 YN2 engine. I was going to use the SD40-2 UP labels. Well, this is a CSX engine, so I guess it must have a completely different layout for the buttons because they didn't match up very well at all to what the label sheet said. Most of the buttons were not what it says. I am not sure if you knew about this, so I figured I would pitch that out there to you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2021
  6. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Yep every loco class is quite different - even the same class on a different route or livery can be different (annoyingly). You need to use the one for the loco you are operating.
     
  7. skendel

    skendel New Member

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    Well, I figured since I was driving an SD40-2, it wouldn't matter. It's crazy for them all to not be exactly the same. Since there isn't one for CSX specifically, guess I will have to look at each one and see which is closest or make my own. Just figured that since it was one of the missions that came default with the game, one of them on the spreadsheet would be right. LOL
     
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  8. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    Yep, welcome to the crazy inconsistent world of RD on TSW2 :)
    Stick with it, though, even with the foibles it's still a great way to drive.
     
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  9. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    They are organised by route, look for the three letter code for the loco in the RailDriver settings in game.
     
  10. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    So, just as I feared when I was pre-ordering the new Chemnitz route, the 612 is completely undrivable from RailDriver. The power lever in no way acts like the real thing and you can only apply power for a few seconds at a time, making acceleration such a chore that it's just not worth playing that train for me. I mean, for starters, they should have mapped the power/brake handle to the ind brake lever, like on the 143 that is used ON THIS VERY ROUTE. It's directional in the correct way and would allow the finer control that the 612's lever requires. But even on the power lever it could have been done properly, with max position holding acceleration and not shutting it off after 2 seconds. I'm willing to bet money that no one at DTG ever actually drove a service with the raildriver on this route before release, otherwise I do not get how this could have been missed.

    Otherwise, nice route. The 143 and cab car work fine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  11. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I don't find the 612 undriveable with Raildriver, but I also don't like the implementation. I don't really understand why they didn't just have it so when you accelerate, it keeps accelerating for as long as it's in that position then moving it away goes into hold. Moving it right into the centre is off.

    I actually prefer driving the 612 with an XBOX controller attached to my PC. The throttle and braking are far easier to use that way.

    I really like the route. The raildriver implementation is the only thing slightly spoiling it for me.
     
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  12. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  13. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    I don't think it is an "implementation". It's just a bug. The power handle as is just clearly triggers keyboard commands, and that is what the problem is, because on the keyboard the A key acts as a momentary switch - it only accelerates when you press and hold it, whereas the D key acts as a latch switch, it tumbles the power level down continuously until you press A again to stop it. That is why the dynamic brakes work kind'a as they should but the power doesn't. But either way is NOT the way a controller like the RD should work in the game. What it should do is directly control the position of the lever as it is in the cab, not the game's keyboard mechanic which, needless to say, is not a lever. If the lever would act as the real thing does in this particular train, we would feel as if we're really driving the train as it is in real life. But as usual, DTG had half-assed the raildriver implementation and what we get is a broken version of the keyboard approximation of that lever. As it stands now, you cannot really drive it at all with the RD if you want any hope of keeping to the timetable - unless you keep one hand on the A and D keys, which is what I've been doing. But needless to say it is unintuitive and clunky to control the train this way, and it is not acceptable.
     
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  14. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    jayzhead that is not correct, the Raildriver is not activating keyboard commands. The implementation is likely a bug. I use an Xbox controller to run the 612, the 443 and the G6. Its just easier with all of them.

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix people use them in varying ways, the RailDriver has a way to put printed paper slips under the cover above each row of buttons - I started putting them in there, but they are so inconsistent I now usually don't print them at all but just keep the file open on my second monitor, when I do print I just put them in front of the RailDriver on the desk. These days I keep my TS slips in there because I use them more often than TSW slips. You can see them here in this photo. PXL_20220116_021702877.jpg
     
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  15. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Do you still use them to play TSW2? Is it worth it to invest in them? How comfortable is it for you to use them on TS2022 compared to TSW 2?
     
  16. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    There are three main sims that I play regularly. TSW2 (the most), TS (next) and finally Run8 (the least).

    I use Raildriver nearly all the time. For some trains I've taken to Raildriver plus an Xbox controller.

    The buttons are really handy for both TS and Run8 because they are the same no matter what you're driving. To be honest, while I started out using them with TSW2 the inconsistency has driven me batty and I rarely use them at all anymore preferring the keyboard. Its not a dead loss there are some really positive signs of consistency coming into the configurations for each locomotive. Each of the German, UK and American groupings has started to come together and there are strong signs of improvement in consistency so I will likely go back to them in time.

    Paul
     
  17. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    I should have phrased it better. I didn't mean it is using actual key presses. But it clearly uses the keyboard control mechanic for the handle. I bet you it is not a coincidence that the one notch that has a different control mechanic on keyboard is also the one not working properly on raildriver. They probably programmed the power lever to trigger different lever positions through the percentage of where the lever is located, and because it is not direct control but rather goes though the keyboard control mechanic, the non-latching nature of the power position broke the functionality. The game gets a power command every time you move the lever over a certain position, but if you're not continuously moving the lever back and forth it clicks power off.
    In any way, none of that invalidates my earlier point that clearly neither Matt nor anyone else in a management position within dovetail ever actually tried running a service on the 612 with a raildriver before release, otherwise this bug would never have made it to the shipping version. Which only reinforces the understanding that RD support for TSW is half-assed at best. The inconsistency and sometimes outright neglectfulness of the mappings is not helping things either. Of course, one can argue that it's better to have half-assed support than no support at all, and I would generally agree with that; but I still have the audacity to expect better. Especially because in this particular case the one-stop solution to all or at least most issues is simple: give us the ability to make our own mappings. How long ago was it that Matt was talking about it in stream, that their goal is to have configurable controls for RD? Over a year, I think... Not a whisper about it since.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  18. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Expecting better is not unreasonable. The feedback here is read.

    It definitely doesn't use keyboard activations in any way though, it is a native implementation in TSW same as controllers are a native implementation. In time there is intention to release an API which will let people build whatever controller they want.

    The implementation of the 612 throttle is just a bit lame and its a coincidence there is some similarity with keyboard behaviour in some locomotives.

    Paul
     
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  19. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    The G6 has the same bug, right?
     
  20. Cotax

    Cotax Well-Known Member

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    It works by the same principle, yes. Also 363 - you have to "pump it". I find this pretty much not realistical and it ruins the RD experience. With 612 i barely made it through tutorial, it was so annoying.
     
  21. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    I don't find this on the 363 with my RD. It will quite happily keep increasing power by itself until I move it back to hold.
     
  22. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Still find it amazing that DTG can release fixes for new routes in a matter of days but any Preserved stuff like the RD support we have to wait months.
     
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  23. Cotax

    Cotax Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure? I tried yesterday on G6 in 363 and on max throttle it doesnt increase to the max, but only about 30% of throttle and the. goes to hold. So for max power, i have to pump it like three times.

    Still better than 612, where i have to pump it 8 times, because it only increases like 7% per time..
     
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  24. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    The G6 isn't as bad because it steps up/down a greater percentage of power with each tug so you don't really notice it on that one.
     
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  25. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    Update: having played again, no I'm not sure. As in: I was talking rhubarb (to use a topical phrase here in the UK) :D

    Mine is the same as yours: three pumps to get to max.
     
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  26. chessiet#4231

    chessiet#4231 Active Member

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    Guys, I’m not sure if this has been asked before in this discussion, but will the developers be mapping the horn button on Raildriver to operate both High and Low horn sounds? This is particularly relevant to British diesel locomotives .
    ChessieT
     
  27. Cotax

    Cotax Well-Known Member

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    Horn button? RD has horn level -it moves up and down - horn high and horn low. At least most of the time, on some loco is turned around :D
     
  28. johnmcglade30

    johnmcglade30 Active Member

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    I have logged out out and it's still not unlocking for me everything and it's not unlocking
     
  29. chessiet#4231

    chessiet#4231 Active Member

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    Hi Cotax,
    When you use the horn lever on RD it only has one setting high or up/forward position, and Not high and low or up and down on the lever. It doesn’t seem that it’s possible (yet) to reprogram the keys/buttons yet!
    The low tone setting isn’t programmed in!
    Centurion 011
     
  30. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chessie Cotax it depends on the loco - a lot of the UK locos with high/low do have them mapped to RD horn high and horn low. Not all though, there is some inconsistency. A few German ones have it done too. I don't think any others have it mapped even though some others do have different horn sounds.

    Paul
     
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  31. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    paul.pavlinovich Are you really the official dovetail games ambassador? Do you work for the company?
     
  32. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    DTG have told us all in the past how easy it is to do RD support in TSW2 although actual using it sometimes would suggest otherwise.

    I'm wondering if the two rows of buttons couldn't be the same for all Loco's and if it could why the hell can't DTG make it so?
     
  33. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Yes he is a Official Dovetail Games Ambassador.
     
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  34. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    What role does he do? Does he represent us the community and fans, and share feedback with the team? I am confused
     
  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I do not know how this role works as he has only been this for a few days now. Guess you will have to wait for him to reply to your post.
     
  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Since he lives " down under, " don't expect an immediate reply. ;)
     
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  37. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    ???
     
  38. flol26

    flol26 New Member

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    And still we are here waiting for free Key-mapping top happen :|
     
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  39. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Hi I don't represent DoveTail in any way shape or form, I am not an employee. I am a volunteer ambassador for the DTG products through my YouTube channel (link in sig). I'm one of several - quite a few of the streamers you may be watching are. I won't out them, I'll leave that to them. Some make it obvious, some don't.

    I do share feedback that comes my way.

    Exactly what is the role? Well, to be honest I'm still figuring it out completely :). Seems that I do all the things I normally do. Tutorials, helping people, streaming and reviewing the games (and yes I will continue to be unbiassed - the only requirement is I be constructive).

    Paul
     
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  40. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    He means I am in Australia and live in your future in a very different timezone UTC+10/11. I'm usually on here in my evenings.
     
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  41. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    That is great news
     
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  42. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    paul.pavlinovich I see, do you get paid while doing this role? Who is the person you contact most when sharing feedback for us the communtiy?
     
  43. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I do not get paid. Share your feedback here on the forums is the best bet as the Dovetail people definitely read it all and collate it.

    Paul
     
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  44. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    Paul is dtg ceo
     
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  45. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Wishful thinking but no he is not a DTG employee
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not Paul Pavlinovich. Paul Jackson, president and CEO of Dovetail Games.
     
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  47. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    C'mon, he was just kidding. :D
     
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  48. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    lololol you think everyone is the DTG CEO :)

    and no I'm not.
     
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  49. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

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    lol. that reminds me of the time when I found out that Matt from uktrainsim and Matt from TSW's life streams were the same person..... in the middle of a lifestream... oh boy!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
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  50. Cotax

    Cotax Well-Known Member

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    Did anybody try BR423 on new yourney DLC, did they fix the horn? It gets stuck in munchen :) paul.pavlinovich maybe?
     

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