1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Train Sim World 2: Rush Hour - Creating Immersion

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    8,111
    1620144827520_TSW2_Rush_Hourarticle1920x1080.jpg
    Find out more about updates to immersion coming with Rush Hour this Summer...

    Read the article here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 21
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  2. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    700
    Woww, Tsw is finally an immersive simulator with realistic funtions and features on the trains, thanks you DTG!! Oh wait...
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  3. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    689
    Interesting article. While I cannot comment on the controller changes, I really support the decision to add more info to the pause screen rather than the "live" HUD.

    The last section leaves me a bit confused. Are the "dot to donut" changes exclusive to consoles or are they related to every platform?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Trainman525

    Trainman525 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    216
    Would it be possible to get these graphs in PDF form for each route, in each direction?

    For me, this would significantly help the route learning process as I would be able to write additional route learning information on a print out of them.

    It would also mean that I can glance at them while not loosing immersion by pausing the game.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  5. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    749
    Likes Received:
    976
    Happy free cam is coming back.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    Looks like this is only a big thing for consoles? Reading through the article I read nothing new for PC players. The only thing that came to mind was "Oh, console players can't do this already?".

    Why do you insist people access the pause menu, rather than giving them a choice? HUD elements can be enabled/disabled already, which is awesome as people can customize their HUD to their desire. Why not giving us the choice on how we like to play the game?

    IMO having this information in the pause screen takes away immersion, as I have the pause the game to access information I want.

    Looks to me you're ignoring those people who've told you they think the HUD is too large, and would prefer to be able to scale things down. It'd be nice if you gave us more flexibility to customize the HUD, enable/disable certain elements, scale them up or down to our desire, and move them to parts of the screen as we see fit.

    While I can imagine console players being sat further away from their screens, and may like their HUD larger, I'm one of those PC players with a big 4k screen right in front of me. The HUD is too large and all that HUD blocks the interior of the train and the beautiful scenery. Give me the option to adjust the HUD and I'd definately feel more immersed...
     
    • Like Like x 9
  7. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    996
    I'm not finding anything really exciting about this year's update. The track profile is nice but not something I will use very often. Why not make it so you can bring it up on the screen (like the task list with "T") without pausing? Much better for immersion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  8. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    749
    Likes Received:
    976
    Perhaps make a second tab for the task list with the track profile on there? Agreed that pausing the game totally ruins the immersion, totally cancelling out what they updated it with an aim to do
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    It's mainly nice for console players, which apparently were lacking some keybinds that PC players have had for years. Two tone horn, that's nice. Never realized console players didn't have this yet.

    If it's a toggle like the task screen you might as well turn it into a HUD element that can be toggled on/off. Like good old Train Simulator provided us some very useful information (while consuming less screen space too). IMO the Train Simulator HUD was pretty good for immersion. I realize not everyone liked it, but giving us the choice makes both groups of people happy, doesn't it?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    While we're on the subject of gradient profiles, any chance the gradient HUD has been fixed so it's no longer reversed? Even though I'm well aware of the bug, it still confuses me, telling me I'm going uphill while my train accelerates while coasting... oh wait, I'm going downhill...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    996
    Yeah looks like it's mostly focused on accessibility for consoles. Which I don't mind because they do need it, but why don't we also get some HUD modularity? I completely agree about it being too large rather than too small. Also something like a keybind to remove the task hud in the top-left would be great.
    True, but I just like how bringing up the task screen feels a tiny bit like looking up a piece of paper. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  12. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    556
    I have a question for Thursday's stream:

    The DB BR 423 on HMA has a modified speed ball in the HUD which changes colour to help indicate better if the train is accelerating (blue) or decelerating (yellow). Has this feature been picked up for the Rush Hour HUD improvements?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  13. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    9,935
    Wasn’t expecting this article to be anything interesting, as it’s mostly just about console controls, of which us PC players have already had for quite some time.

    Though the title threw me off, as I was expecting it to somehow transform my driving experience. Perhaps it would be better to rename it to immersion controls or something?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    7,130
    I’m so excited about the immersion control enhancement for console. I only want to use a controller whilst relaxed on the couch, so having the controller deliver increased functionality is a massive step forward for me.

    Being able to increase/decrease AFB and being able to acknowledge/release PZB without struggling to select the correct lever in the cab is going to vastly improve my experience on German routes and I’m so happy Matt took the time to listen to feedback and to take onboard suggestions. Having the two tone horn is also a fun step forward which should have been there all along.

    I’m really looking forward to being able to cycle through camera views. I don’t know if this means we can get head out of cab views back with immersion controls, but this is something I’ve definitely missed on the immersion controller on console. Especially when driving the Class 08/09 and Class 20 with their super long hoods.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    7,130
    It’ll be interesting to see what’s discussed in tonight’s Roadmap stream with Adam & Natalie (but no Matt) seeing as Matt is showing off new Rush Hour features on Thursday. We know there aren’t going to be any updates until after Rush Hour is released and Adam has been working on getting things ready for Rush Hour, so what will they talk about tonight?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    1,782
    So it looks like we just found out what DTG's bizzare "announcement" is, so the speculation about a Switch version, RH release date reveal/delay, and news on the editor can all come to a stop.
     
  17. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2019
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    788
    In my opinion RailDriver is a huge Immersion booster but not one word about using the shift key function with it in the future.

    Like separating SiFa and PZB acknowledge, getting every function of the loco to the button bar, making use of "button memory" by just holding the shift button to do the opposite of the button you press next ... imagine the possibilities of holding shift while moving a lever - "Universal AFB" ... I could go on and on.

    Of course this would be not so intersting in such an article for everyone in the audience so maybe Matt can say some words regarding RailDriver Future (leaving Beta?) during Thursdays stream? I think a core player group might appreciate that ;-)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    1,665
    The hud has 2 sizes
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    and the smallest one is still too large IMO
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    710
    I really don't like the idea of pausing the game every time I need to check upcoming speed limits etc, how is that more immersive than just checking a number during gameplay? Train drivers in real life can't just stop time and spend five minutes looking at a graph.

    I sincerely hope they let players choose what's best for them. All of a sudden I'm a lot more cautious about this upcoming update. The only issue I had with the current system is that the text was too small, which they seem to be addressing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  21. Suomen surkein junakuski

    Suomen surkein junakuski Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    133
    The inclusion of a shift button for consoles is an awesome idea! I hope that we can also be able to turn the bell on and off, as it is often really hard to find when playing without HUD and cursor. However one thing that I have been wondering, is how can console players take railfan shots, when the shift button and taking railfan shots are both accessed from the square button. (or the X-button on Xbox)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    228
    Rather than the pause screen, I'd like to see a live in-game element. Like, for example, your player looks down at a clipboard
    (for old-time routes) or a tablet (for modern routes) showing the relevant information without pausing the game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2020
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    411
    oh no....
     
  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    9,935
    This is what I’ve been suggesting for ages. TS1 and OMSI Bus Simulator do it this way, so why can’t we have it like that in TSW?

    DTG have even modelled the space and a functional light for it, but they don’t utilise it?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2020
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    411
    By this picture, the speed limit seem still part of the hud. hope it wont change.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,288
    Likes Received:
    5,688
    No, train drivers take months learning routes and taking tests and not being able to work if they don't pass those tests. Don't know about you but taking a second on the pause screen to see the next few miles of speed changes is better than having to take months before you're allowed to play...

    Personally I would have preferred the top right roundels to be updated for "upcoming in the next 2 miles" (pick a distance) so if there's three speed changes and then a signal, you get four icons showing what's happening ahead
     
    • Like Like x 6
  27. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    710
    Obviously I know that. I'm just saying that for me, checking the speed limit in the top right of the screen is much more immersive than having to pause the game to check stuff. A real driver wouldn't have to do either.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  28. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    As I've noted elsewhere, the gradient HUD is not reversed, it just takes a little practice and common sense to understand how it works and how to read it. Here's a link to my previous post: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/understanding-the-speedometer-hud.41208/
     
  29. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    3,329
    It is if you're driving from the no. 2 cab of a locomotive. Matt said in a stream once it was due to the game compensating twice (thus cancelling itself out) for that issue, so with Matt himself aknowledging the issue and saying that is not working as intended, I would say it very much is reversed (as in flipped the wrong way round).
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  30. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    The gradient HUD indicator 'bug' started showing up when preserved collection first appeared in TSW2. The gradient HUD worked fine in TSW2020, which makes me believe the way it works in TSW2 isn't intended.

    Either way, I disagree there's common sense needed to understand how it works. The gradient HUD should adjust to the cab/engine the player is operating. Switching cabs in a locomotive makes that cab the front. One might even argue it should adjust based on the direction of travel.

    Even the doors indicator HUD gets confused by the same system, thinking the train is running backwards, showing the player the left doors are open when it really is the right side doors that are opened. Happened to me quite a few time on West Somerset Railway. Operating a Class 47, by controlling the cab desk that's not connected to the coaches, makes that the front of the train in my logic. Similarly US locos have in-cab switches for "Front End Headlights" (which happen to be the side the cab is on), and "Rear End Headlights" for the other side, giving a pretty clear indication of what is considered the 'front' of a train according to common sense.

    Whether the current behaviour of the gradient HUD indicator is its intended behaviour or a bug (because as far as I know DTG never bothered to make a statement), I've seen plenty of people complaining its current behaviour is annoying, counter-intuitive, or (using words DTG likes to use) counter-immersive.

    If reversing the gradient HUD and doors HUD is 'common sense', then why doesn't the speedometer indicate a negative speed, as I'm running backwards according to your 'common sense'?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  31. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    63
    I heard Matt answer my question about larger digits for the distance to next waypoint/station, saying that they’re working on a solution. The gradients and speed limits in the pause menu is a good help if you are unfamiliar and learning the route. I use Xbox controller and PC, so I get the best of both.

    Wasn’t there an option for for second horn in Xbox controller also?
     
  32. Lombra

    Lombra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    269
    Yeah, I'm all for decluttering the HUD, but if there's one thing that breaks immersion, it's pausing the game.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  33. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,029
    Likes Received:
    9,972
    With the internal cab cameras being accessible again from the controller it is imperative that the camera on those internal views is freed up for full movement to make the camera views useful. At present in many cabs the cameras are fixed or only move side to side and no buttons or switches can be accessed in those views due to the cursor now being fixed in the centre on console. There is no mouse of course. The cameras need to be freed up or the new immersion controls are going to be as useless as the old ones for those cabs. To get the cursor moving (the only way currently to access switches in the fixed camera views) you need to use the classic controller and that is also bugged. I think it’s worth a tag as I don’t very often... TrainSim-Matt TrainSim-Adam any chance this can be done?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    575
    This sounds really really good and very well thought through. Very good work! :)

    Regarding the concerns you have to pause in order to have a look at the speed limits: As far as I understood Matts statements the 'next speedlimit' on the HUD will remain as it is, so it would only be an issue if you want to have a look at the further upcoming speedlimits as well - something what is not possible at the moment anyway. I also think this would have been too much information for the existing HUD which is why they came up with this solution.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    That's true. NEC New York - Rochelle had various speed limits following up too close to another (too close to react), so I'm curious if NEC Boston - Providence has the same thing.
    Although on most routes there's plenty of distance between speed limit changes, and on German routes you can rely on signalling without route knownledge, there's certainly a few cases where speed limit changes follow up too close to one another leaving you without enough time (or distance) to react accordingly.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    7,130
    The text where it says unlock doors still seems pretty small in the picture included in the article. That could do with being increased in size slightly.
     
  37. met_cui98

    met_cui98 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2019
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    39
    With the additional information in the pause menu, has there been work done to make it appear more quickly? On Xbox One, it takes about two seconds from the time I press the pause button to the time the menu appears, so I hope at the very least the time doesn't get any longer with the new additions.
     
  38. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    575
    Oh yes I remember some serious emergency breakings because I had massive overspeed... :D
    Back then I printed maps of the different routes and wrote the most dangerous speed changes down. I then took a look at those prints while driving- some sort of pause as well if you like :)
     
  39. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    887
    I really hope DTG rethink locking the gradient/speed profile in the pause screen, where it's immersion breaking and mostly useless.

    It should be an individual HUD element that players can toggle on/off as they choose.

    Also, is there confirmation that we can still use the "classic" control scheme after the update? Didn't see it mentioned, but I really hope it's not being scrapped.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  40. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    2,048
     
  41. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    1,665
    Same here , it was always instant on 2020
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    9,935
    How about getting rid of that silly and immersion breaking objective complete sound and message every time you complete a task?
     
    • Like Like x 14
  43. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Yeah, talking about immersion breakers, that is certainly high up the list...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  44. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1,556
    Likes Received:
    2,216
    Please write the Article in German for the Deutschsprachigen Player
     
  45. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Folks, when they put up the thread for questions on Thursday, make sure you put your questions in there and i'll try and have answers for them :)

    Matt.
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  46. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    575
    PM me later, I'll translate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2021
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    504
    These all seem like small changes in the grand scheme of things but as anyone who has been here since TSW, we know that all of these small changes really add up to create a much more immersive experience for us all. I personally really like the white dot disappearing when your not moving the camera. That is a small but great change!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  48. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    7,130
    That would be very nice.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,142
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    I would like to customize the osd in game. Many games have that option so why not tsw2. Let players customize what they want to see. The fact that you have to pause the game to find more info makes the feature useless and immersion breaking in my opinion. In real life drivers wouldn't have to pause time to do that
     
    • Like Like x 5
  50. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    +1 for that, more customizations such as key bindings or which elements the HUD shows would be much appreciated!
     
    • Like Like x 3

Share This Page