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Train Sim World 2 - Thursday Q&a - Ask Your Questions.

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Question: Is £34.99 going to be the new price per route going forward since you now have 5 versions of the game to produce?
     
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  2. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your solidarity. The last thing I want is for the community to split. As a (mainly) German player that plays a little bit of British routes, it has actually been great to see the support German players are getting from others on this issue.
     
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  3. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    Why wasn’t Cathcart Circle considered for a Rush Hour launch upgrade? I would have thought considering the nature of the route (and multiple jet packing passengers) that it would have been a great candidate. It feels like a Rush Hour route without the Rush Hour upgrades.
     
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  4. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    Question: When can we see gameplay footage from the PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series X|S versions?

    (Please don't answer with "closer to release" - I think that much is obvious. Thank you. :))
     
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  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Did the community team enjoy their time off before coming back to have to deal with this?
     
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  6. JazzyGeofferz

    JazzyGeofferz Member

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    With the release on Epic Game Store and their love of exclusives will all future additional content be releasing on all platforms at the same time?
    How much longer do you plan on supporting XBox One/PS4 given their difficulties in running the game without crashes and other memory issues? Will they get Spirit Of Steam content?
     
  7. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    Probably not if they knew what was coming!
     
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  8. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I think after the recent announcements regarding Dresden, there has been a lot of unnecessary panic with people saying BML is being cut to Gatwick and thus not going to Brighton. This doesn't really make any sense on several levels. Let me explain:

    - Firstly, even with the Dresden branch lines cut, doesn't that make this route around the same length as BML now i.e. approximately 50 miles?
    - Secondly, Brighton is already modelled in the game, if they are running out of development time, why would they not bother including it?
    - Thirdly, all fast services on the BML would all be over pretty quick if just run to Gatwick with just Clapham Junction and East Croydon as stopping points - thus not the most exciting unless going all the way to Brighton and beyond.
    - Finally, I think if half of BML was cut, they would have said at the same time as the Dresden announcement.

    I can appreciate the worry, I won't relax until Rush Hour is released.
     
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  9. JazzyGeofferz

    JazzyGeofferz Member

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    It's not called Brighton Mainline anymore though, it's called "London Commuter", and following the removal of 20+km of the branches from Riesa-Dresden people are getting concerned.
     
  10. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Only 160? I thought that it would be a good opportunity to use the Br101 to get to the 200 km/h, but I don't know a lot of the route because I live in western Germany
     
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  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I checked on OpenRailwayMap, and the max speed is indeed 160 km/h, with a 120 km/h and a 140 km/h section in there. The Leipzig - Dresden line is only 200 km/h on the Riesa - Leipzig section, for which I have made a suggestion by the way ;)
     
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  12. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Well this came as a surprise, DTG is expanding Train Sim World 2 to the Epic Games Store.

    Below is an excerpt of what was stated, as stated...

    "We're excited to announce that next week players will be able to pick up Train Sim World 2 on the Epic Games Store. This will be free to add to your Games Library and keep during the first week (29 July – 5 August) and will include some features coming to the main game on other platforms this Summer. Alongside this, a selection of Add-Ons like Southeastern High Speed and München - Augsburg will be released".

    "With Train Sim World 2 on the Epic Games Store we're upgrading to Unreal 4.26 in preparation for the release of Rush Hour. This means you'll notice a few changes to the main game. Starting with a new menu and interface from route selection and, when you’re playing, you can find new useful information on the pause screen like gradient profiles. Lastly, when you’re driving, don’t forget to check out the new 'head out’ camera view. You can also look forward to updates to the Bakerloo Line and Köln - Aachen as part of this release. This includes updates like speed limit and stopping point changes to improve accuracy on Bakerloo Line".

    -Taken from https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/tsw2-epicgames-store

    This came as a huge surprise to everyone. I was not expecting this. This is a good thing for the expansion of Train Sim World 2. But is this something pretty controversial, maybe?
    My question is I don't use the Epic Games library, I despise of it, but with this being free for everyone for the first week is the release going to be free forever after the first week. Knowing how Epic Game's business tactics work within various games (Mainly Fortnite and the various virtual Micro-transactions...)
    Is this going to effect anything currently about TSW 2: Rush Hour and will this effect future DLC content for Train Sim World 2.

    NOTE: This is NOT a debate, a simple question was asked with quotes from the official article. So please keep the comments considerate and RELEVENT, also THINK before you post a comment, question or concern.
     
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  13. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I share your concern. Regarding the name, as others have rightly said it's too vague. 'London Commuter' could stand for anywhere.
    However, I keep my hopes up as Brighton to London is a major commuter line pre-COVID, with people from East Sussex, West Sussex and Surrey travelling to/from London for work thus the possible reason why they choose that name. Plus, for now while removing the branch lines the way it was done from Dresden is frustrating (I myself was looking forward to that route before the changes), there has yet to be any cuts from the mainline itself, thus I see no reason to cut BML by half.
     
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  14. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    From what I understand from the stream, the base TSW2 game with 4.26 updates is free to claim for a week beginning 29th July. If you do this, you get to keep it forever. However, you won’t be able to transfer existing routes or trains that you bought from Steam as the two systems don’t talk to one another.

    It’s a good way to try out the new features before the main release but if you already own it on PC, it’s probably best to go back to Steam after you have tried it.
     
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  15. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    So I take it the stream was a trainwreck and they used lots of empty words and sat there with their tails between their legs while trying to convince us all we should be thankful to them?

    TSW is nothing more than a failure of a project and will die. It had promise but has been so repeatedly mishandled that it is doomed to fail, they only have themselves to blame.

    We have all given them enough chances, how many times can DTG Protagonist claim theyve taken onboard feedback - you spend months talking about learning when to reveal content and the roadmap etc and then you go an reveal a full "pack" while it was still a scribble on the drawing board? you actually put time and effort into a full reveal/website refresh for that and now youve burnt all good faith you somehow had left. I know you'll say "we're sorry, but you can choose not to buy it" - yeah, we wont, because you guys would all starve locked in a supermarket given your prowess of screwing things up. I hope we can all sit by and watch HMS TSW sink to the depths clutching at straws screaming "but consolez, but pazzion!, we listen!"

    INB4: Epic early access DLCs and London Brighton becoming London - Gatwick with all reused stock. DTG, noone asked for rush hour, you chose to do it, this deadline youve set yourself wasnt set by the consumer.....delay Dresden and make something worth buying instead of doing what you currently are.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I don't want Riesa-Dresden. They were honest but this is why they shouldn't announce something that can't be done. This is something they did in the past with the editor and multiplayer. If the branch lines weren't announced, there wouldn't be so much backlash. I'm an Xbox Player btw.
     
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  17. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Sam said in the stream tonight that they dropped a clanger in revealing too much about Riesa-Dresden too soon.

    He also said it was a significant communication error.

    Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time such a communication error has happened. It’s worrying that lessons haven’t been learned.

    Kudos to Sam though. He tells it how it is.
     
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  18. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are other German routes that I really want to see in TSW 2, but I thought at the beginning, that Riesa-Dresden wouldn't be so bad and at least I have 3 routes for 30€ but now I am disappointed, that something gets promised and then it isn't a thing anymore because of a misunderstanding, I think that it's still worth to buy even though it isn't like I have hoped this route would be, but anyways I still get 3 routes for 40€ instead of 90€
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  19. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    This is also part of what they call immersion: experiencing the thrill of driving an ICE or an Intercity as if it were a regional. Of true High Speed, in the year of High Speed, we have seen only one: the LAV between Marseille and Avignon. Traveling at 200km/h in Europe (and in Japan) was considered High Speed in the 50s and 60s. Today, from the year 2000 onwards, High Speed (the real one) is the one that goes from 300Km/h upwards. Lines that still use level crossings cannot be regarded as High Speed lines (for obvious reasons). The Dresden-Riesa is another fast line, the High Speed lines are another thing.
     
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  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is basically how you would have perceived it, whatever they said. You could watch it yourself to see if you are right, it’ll be there forever on Youtube.
     
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  21. Trainman525

    Trainman525 Active Member

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    Base TSW2 routes:

    London Underground: Bakerloo line
    Sand Patch Grade
    Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen


    Plus the Rush Hour Routes:

    Brighton Mainline: London Victoria to Brighton
    Riesa - Dresden
    Northeast Corridor: Boston - Providence
     
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    While I understand what Sam is saying - I am not a DTG basher, just disappointed - and I do understand the business realities the firm has to deal with (unlike some posters), at the same time it seems to me that Riesa-Dresden is by no means the first route for which at the outset DTG have significantly underestimated the quantity of developer man-hours (= both schedule and money) required to get the original plan done. This in turn speaks to poor resource management, like a builder who orders bricks and then runs out of bricks with the house only 3/4 built. As a result we either get a truncated route like R-D (which has gone from potentially awesome to thoroughly uninteresting), or a rushed job full of half-arsery like SEHS, or the elimination of rolling stock (101 cab car, high-door Dostos, nothing new at all for any German route since Munchen-Augsburg) "because there wasn't time" (= programmers = money).

    Somebody at DTG need to get their ish together when it comes to fundamental project planning. And, TBH, the company needs to address costing reality and consider bumping the price, which has remained static for five years of 2+ percent inflation, to allow for more of those costly man-hours to be allocated to a project. And if they don't have enough people to fit the resource bill, then for God's sake hire some more, and pass the cost on. I would absolutely pay a $5 surcharge to get Riesa-Dresden as originally advertised, whereas I won't buy the cut-down version at all.

    If DTG want to be "the evolution of train simulation," then they can't remain content with the standards of 2017 - or 2017 production budgets. And addressing rising costs via "shrinkflation" is NOT the way to advance the product, or secure customer loyalty.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, those branches are worth about 10 euros to me, and I understand that the added developement time would have to be compensated, so I really have no issue paying more for the branches. Preferably they will be there from release, but even a 10 euro route extension would be fine with me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sam: "This [prolonged and intense player backlash] is the kind of thing that gets the level of attention needed to make some changes." Whose attention was he referring to, I wonder? That is really a very pregnant statement, and hints - just barely - at a certain level of coalface dissatisfaction with top management policy.
     
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  25. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    At the start of the stream, even before anything important was said, just by watching JD's and Matt's faces and body language and comparing it to Sam's I could tell that Sam really understands what is going on and JD and Matt do not.
     
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  26. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I had the same feeling, the mood on the stream was a bit too relaxed given what has happened, and only Sam seems to grasp and understand it. And then he is also the one being thrown under bus, not really nice...
    Anyway, while I agree with what Sam said, that this situation would not exist to the current extent if the route would only have been announced today with what it is, it still leaves us with something that has a lot of potential but ends up being the "same A to B". I know that nothing is going to change, but I am still very disappointed and would like to see DTG rectifying their mistake rather than just shrugging it away.
     
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  27. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I agree that JD seemed his usual, cheerful self. Notice how he thought the pricing was the elephant in the room when Sam quickly cut him off. But I did get the impression that Matt grasped the situation as well. Especially at the beginning, he sounded quite defeated to me.
     
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  28. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Matt is definitely passionate about the game, there is no hiding that fact and I’m absolutely certain he wants it to be the best it can be. You can tell he really loves his trains and the routes on which they run. It must be soul destroying to be told you can’t do something and then to get all that community backlash. I just hope he knows none of my feedback is attacking him on a personal level or the development team working under him. Matt definitely does listen to the community and has taken action on things using that feedback, which is very much appreciated.
     
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  29. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Matt himself seemed very excited for the branches, as he no doubt know that they would provide the route with a great and unique feeling and varied gameplay. This is definetely not a decision he and the dev team wanted to make, or can change.

    It was the bean counters, and they are also the ones that can undo the choice, but they will probably only do so if we create a lot of noise. Hopefully we're already quite far on that, as the forums very nearly exploded over the last few days, but we probably need to keep on making our points clear.

    I really hope minds are changed about this, as having one great german route (at a higher price and taking more time) is better than two mediocre ones that bring no new gameplay experience to the table.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  30. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    I was very grateful for Sam's quick correction. If I didn't know JD is a community manager, I would have thought he was from the marketing department. At the very least, it seems he has some proficiency in that area, as he wanted to mitigate immediately by the tried and true method, changing the issue.
     
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  31. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Sam had a face like Thunder through most of it, He seemed to be the only one who understood the damage that has been caused while Matt and the other chap (Sorry can't remember his name) seemed happy to brush it off and go on about how great it'll be (Matt was even smirking for it) and Sam kept bringing them back round to the mess that the team had brought on themselves, Sam may not say what we want to hear all the time but he's honest, He knows they have to work hard to get our trust back.
     
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  32. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me who thinks that if I make a mistake... it is my problem? If a project I announced takes more than I expected, that's a mistake on my side and I have to fix it, no starts selling a cut version of the project. I am collecting US H0 models and probably one of the best manufacturers is ScaleTrains. They've announced BNSF anniversary units last year and this year they found out there's a lot more work needed than expected... so they've made a significant investment into new tooling for them and postponed them. Compare the two approaches.
    Yeah, we definitely have been noticed, but we have to show we mean it. No such community battle has been won on day 1.
     
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  33. gibsonaj1

    gibsonaj1 Active Member

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    Totally agree everything you just said. Poor Sam was royally thrown under the bus last night by Matt and JD who didn't seem to give a monkey's to the mess that had been caused and how this had tarnish our trust with DTG and possibly their reputation too. We're basically being made to pay more now because they've made big mistakes and because they've been over ambitious with their projects by raising the cost of Rush Hour by £10 !! How is that fair on us all ? Also now the 3 routes are being staggered in their release dates by months apart. How can we trust they won't change the other 2 route like the German route before being released......we don't !!
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  34. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think that’s entirely fair. I don’t think anyone last night was thrown under the bus by anyone else on the stream. I think maybe the higher management had thrown all three of the stream presenters under the bus and effectively forced them to deal with a giant dollop of crapulence. It’s not easy facing an angry mob and I think they did well under the circumstances.
     
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  35. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t everyone say a while back that they’d be perfectly happy paying more for higher quality routes?

    *obviously not including the German route truncation

    but dovetail is changing their pricing and perhaps the quality will get a bit if not marginally better.
     
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  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    There's no indication at this point that the price of individual routes is increasing. Individual Rush Hour routes are the usual price and we can expect future releases to be similarly priced, barring an official announcement*.

    * Can't find a good synonym for that unfortunate word.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  37. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Respect goes to Sam for admitting they shouldn't have said anything about RH that soon.
     
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  38. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    They've been saying that for months with the roadmap though "we wont add anything without knowing what exactly it is" > reveals RH > "woops too early" > surprisedpikachu.jpeg - its all just empty words. they need to take a look at themselves.
     
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  39. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    tbf, understanding the community is a significant part of Sam's job as I understand it. So, if he understood it better than Matt and JD then that might be why. They did say that these decisions came from higher up in the company than the 3 people on stream and did talk about how Matt works a lot of hours.
     
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  40. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    To tell the truth, the initial announcement of Rush Hour seemed almost too good to be true to me from the beginning. Considering DTGs usual development times and what was originally promised, I was worried the routes would be half-assed, selling three for the price of one, on top of the feature update being worked on. Just by pure luck, it felt the update is tailored for me – as the three routes on offer got me salivating. I lived in Boston for a time during my US stint so I am very well familiar with the MBTA system (or "The T" as Bostonians call it), London to Brighton was probably my all-time favorite TS classic route and I've been hoping it would be brought into TSW for a while now, and I love German passenger routes – they are my favorite to drive plus the Bombardier dostox serve my area so any new stretch of track to run those on is an automatic buy for me. Not to mention the feature update which, hopefully, would finally improve passengers. So I was very excited for Rush Hour, yes. But, I was cautiously excited, almost afraid to say anything about it. Because I've seen DTG overpromise and underdeliver before.

    Yes, they've shot themselves in the foot, by overpromising. That is unfortunate. But at least now when things are coming more into focus, I'm no longer worried that the routes in the pack are going to be rushed and half-assed. I don't resent the Season Ticket idea. IMO, three proper routes for 10$ more than the usual price of one is still a bargain. The Dresden branch lines being cut stings quite a lot, however. I was really looking forward to a route with more than one or two viable destinations. I would 100% support the suggestions made here for a 10$ or so extension down the line that would add those branchlines back and would buy it in a second.

    BUT… The one thing said during the stream that really made me angry, is that still – even after such a massive update – a third of locos in my collection will remain without Raildriver support. Especially after Matt was bragging on stream about how easy it is to add. It's been over a year now, and they're still dragging their feet with this one simple thing, and it pretty much renders many of the addons I own useless to me, because once you play with raildriver it's just a bummer to go back to keyboard. Also, the fact that there is still no mention of the promised remapping of controls is irksome, especially considering how inconsistent DTG's mapping on the RailDriver has been so far.

    I'll still buy the ticket, of course. Those three routes are just too appealing, even though I keep feeling that I'm being let down by DTG's lackluster external controller support. But, on the bright side, I now have a reason to find my TrackIR that's been gathering dust in the attic :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  41. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    This is not entirely true, Matt has a deep passion for the game and wants to see it flourish into something that he can be proud of. Sam does his usual best to try and make sure our questions are answered to the best of his satisfaction and no one else's. I thought that JD did quite well as well considering. That this was his first time facing real backlash from the community over something that was out of control..
     
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  42. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Matt has a deep passion for this game and wants to see it flourish, Sam does his best to answer questions his way and no one else's. Being this was JD's first time facing such backlash as he did quite well yesterday. It You're correct it was the higher ups that through three of them under the bus.
     
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    JD's job is Community Manager. He's literally paid to understand the community.
     
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  44. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I thought that JD did a very good job considering this is his first time facing severe backlash from the community.
     
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  45. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    I agree. If Sam's in-your-face take-it-on-the-chin we-messed-up-and-we're-admitting-it-but-in-a-way-that-earns-points-for-honesty style is a skill can be learnt then the younger community managers are still learning it. But, everyone has to learn and they're still young. (I also like how Sam's CF persona is a cunning disguise for the undercover-spreadsheet-obsessive that he perhaps really is, at least some of the time).
     
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  46. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    What I am sure of right now is that the price has gone up and the scope of the Riesa - Dresden route has gone down. If the quality is going up or not remains to be seen.
     
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Part of the way this was mishandled goes beyond the error of jumping the gun and announcing, too early, features that would not in the event come to be-- but also the cowardly decision on someone's part not to be upfront about it, to try to hide the Dresden truncation in a FAQ rather than standing up and announcing it forthrightly. It looks... weaselly.
     
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  48. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    it is sheer incompetence and there is no way to sugarcoat it.
     
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  49. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Pretty disappointed myself. I found JD hard to understand at times with all his 'Er's and erm's'. Matt to me is Rail enthusiast and Sam is the guy who puts company spin on it, others will no doubt disagree but that is my take.

    Still can't understand why if DTG were snowed under with their own project that important staff went on Holiday? My understanding is that staff would work to get the stuff out then go on holiday after release.

    So it seems a project DTG started which no-one asked for, Rush Hour, with three routes which DTG said were going to be released at the same time for £24.99 with DTG's own deadline and now it cannot be fulfilled they have decided to take it out on us, the customer. Increase in Price and cut routes. And with the promise of being released in the summer and with summer rapidly running out they still could not give a more accurate release date? Really, would it of hurt that much? Even just for the update.

    I was personally disappointed when they said about RD support for preserved routes but not all. It is going to be the GWE(166, HST) that is not supported won't it? I can feel it, just my luck. IMO there is no transparency and the roadmap is a bit of a farce, all we seem to get is vague ideas, bugs that cannot be fixed or bugs that are fixed but cannot be released. Why can't we have a list of all bugs on the forum and be kept up to date which ones are being worked on and released, simple. And more movement on DLC which was promised like the 313.

    I still feel for the German route players (even though I'm not one of them) having their route butchered like that and can't understand why a delay on that route could not have been implemented even if that meant a delay on other projects, all we seem to do is wait anyway for certain projects.

    I did notice in the stream all the micro frame stutters which many still suffer from. I wonder if DTG will now make these a paid for extra or will they still continue to be standard issue in many of their routes for lots of players?
     
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  50. wombleway

    wombleway Well-Known Member

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    Getting the new versions out for the updated engine affects everyone, regardless of platform. Raildriver support, however, is wanted by a tiny percentage of the TSW userbase. It's only natural that that's going to fall by the wayside, especially given the challenges they're facing getting Rush Hour completed as well.

    Being angry about Raildriver support not being there for a few routes when they are perfectly capable of being played (albeit via controller/keyboard) is a little bit OTT.
     
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