Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Alex, Nov 15, 2022.
It's not impossible that the other platforms have been reserved for future additional traffic.....
Interesting. My first service went into platform 6, then I started one on platform 1 (I'm sure this is normally the platform the Euston Virgin services leave from. Third play has just brought me into 12b, which is the one this train normally uses.
I've just had a very enjoyable 80 minute southbound run from Lichfield TV to Bromsgrove. Below is my initial feedback.
The 323 is a joy to drive and it sounds just like how I remember the 12" - 1' version. The initial brakes are very keen and it really doesn't like climbing does it lol.
The constant change in gradient on the approach to New Street was a highlight for me and challenging to keep to speed limit but not lose too much time.
Performance on my i12 700H/3070Ti rig was excellent, a solid 60fps (capped at that) 95% of the time, bit of dip at New Street but remained in the green throughout.
Minimal micro stuttering at tile loading, although as expected the 2nd run was better than the first, and although still present its better than most other routes. I guess we are just going to have to live with this for the foreseeable.
Tree pop in wasnt as noticeable as on SEHS although the shadow pop in is still there, was hoping we see the fix in time for this, but is certainly no worse than any other route.
Southbound with the built up nature of New Street prevented the lack of other services making it the ghost town I feared. Although I did note the lack of AI traffic, and it felt like a Sunday service in many respects (A Sunday service when every other operator was on strike - but I guess that's possibly prototypical from the UK rail system right now ).
Absolute massive thanks to DTG Matt and the team for adding a bind for the hill start to the RD and bringing back the bind for DRA (which is sorely missing from the SEHS trains!!), It really helped me drive using the systems available without having the hassle of using the mouse and adds enormously to my enjoyment.
Little bit disappointed with just 24 journeys if I'm honest.
A couple of minor bugs I came across.
The Steam achievement BCC: Brum Brummmmmm! Operate the BR Class 323 for 32.3miles triggered before I'd even got to Blake Street and I suspect the decimal point is in the wrong place and triggers at 3.23 miles
I had an occasion when the throttle lock didn't disengage on closing of the doors, and I had to reopen then close the doors again to disengage the lock, I suspect its partly down to the fact I was a little keen moving the throttle to forward and switching off the DRA during the door closing process and it confused the program.
Overall a very strong enjoyable route, which I can recommend and I have zero remorse at buying at full price and for me is worth every penny.
Just please next UK route can we have something that isnt an EMU commuter run? I am begging here.
WCML next please
This might be platform-specific; the PSN trophy seems fine on this one - popped right when it should on PS5.
Thanks, Ive edited my post to state it isnt working on Steam
Well that's good news at least. I wonder why there's only two in the scenario planner if other platforms are indeed programmed?
They did say on the stream that every platform was set up so they should all be usable. 8 (northbound) and 12 (southbound) seem to be the ones the Bromsgrove Cross City services normally use IRL, but it seems like an oversight to only have those in the scenario planner where people will presumably be trying to busy it up a bit.
Talking of bugs, the 323 offside cab « door close » button doesn’t work, something I noticed that Daisy also struggled with during the stream.
Nail on the head I would say, I invested in the lot and expected more for the early routes, a 25 and 56 for NTP which the 56 could have sat in TVL also, not to mention some different DMUs. Now the only diesel we mainly see are corrugated iron looking and sound like washing machines on a slow spin. Many of us BR fans I guess live in the model railway world instead. However I would still think a West Highland route with 37s would sell well to all ages being that 37s still get serious numbers out to film. I refunded the RHTT the other day. Found it soul less and just plain boring. Thats not trying to take anything away from the dev teams responsible but I think us older traction fans are due something soon.
I just set up a scenario with a Peak from Bromsgrove to Lichfield stopping at New Street and it routed me through one of the through lines at New Street rather than a platform - so I have no idea what's going on! Watching an AI Whistler restarting a heavily loaded passenger train from New Street was awesome though and brought back great memories... almost worth the £30 alone. If only they'd set this in 1982ish with rasping 116s, Peaks on Cross Country and the odd Hoover thrown in for good measure. Do youngsters really prefer EMUs? They don't know what they missed...
It would appear that the demand for what you can see and ride on right now is the market sought.
I think this one can be left, I have started uninstalling to save space on my SSD. Bought a used 156 for my model railway instead which if i get tired of can sell on. I would have no issue paying £30 for routes if they were not ghost towns.
DTG missed a trick by not giving us a modernish diesel UK route this time around. My first love will always be classic loco hauled, but nevertheless I do have a soft spot for the early Sprinters.
Sprinters and Pacers are challenging to drive and been around for a long time, transition times are to me the most interesting. SoS could have been set a few years later and had the 45, 47 and 40 in Green plus DMU running. Again with Sprinters they ran along side loco hauled stock for years.
I have to say I am quite enjoying this route so far. The train feels good to drive and overall the scenery looks pretty good.
Hope that the PIS issues are resolved soon & really hope they have another route through New Street planned soon to make it actually feel busy. The depot would also finish it off nicely!
So close to being a perfect route imo.
It's a family competition....
In other - more salient news - well done to the team. Very nice to see the signalling in particular.
Yeah that's a valid point, can't argue with you there. But, what I can wonder though if playing devils advocate, couldn't they have made another UK route or two elsewhere from another area, with suitable rolling stock - like a Turbostar or Voyager - that could have layered into a WMR route that featured New Street later on? My point goes full circle, having the UK's largest station outside London without hardly any trains is not what an authentic train sim should be.
Sorry to double quote your post but after a bit more play I ended up refunding. Will rebuy if/when the bugs are sorted and it is discounted in a sale. A bit more route and new rolling stock might have made the difference, but not worth £30 as is.
I am not sure I would even bother in a sale now. How many runs before its gets parked. I use the DB content now as a benchmark, lots of variety and busy timetables on many routes. The one I have uninstalled is Rapid Transit as its a yawn fest to be honest. If DTG continue to produce one trick pony routes that still sell then my SSD drive will keep its free space!
We should be in 2022 doing better yet years ago you could buy MSTS routes than came with dozens of items of Rolling stick. In TSC its somewhere between. When bugs are present then it's a deal breaker.
Perhaps, but people would have complained about only having Turbostars and probably with a lighter timetable and less traffic that we have here. If they do a Voyager route into/through New Street now, at least now there will be plenty of 323s about!
If people want modern trains only licenses must be obtained. So here we are. Cathcart and Cross City could have both been set in earlier times with the same core train (314 and 323) and a lot more AI traffic. The fact that a 31, 47,45, 101, mk1s and Mk2s exist could have filled stations like New Street and Glasgow Central...
Best value MSTS were the Mid East Plus and North Wales Coast V2. In the case of the former a massive complex route, admittedly not entirely to scale and both came with a shedload of traction and rolling stock. Still fire up occasionally in OR though not all the trains are 100% compatible on the new platform.
We were spoiled with the Making Tracks stuff, pretty much perfect with what came out on the disc (remember those!).
Mid East and NWC were both amazing and I don't think we will see the likes of again unless someone can develop a platform that doesn't need a timetable to take years to develop and one loco the same.
Personally, I'd much rather have a busy 2022-spec New Street and not be driving the same old trains from NTP/TVL layered in to every route. DTG made all those, there's no reason they can't make us a new fleet too. Hopefully they'll keep adding to it in a reasonable timeframe.
Prepare for a long wait.....
So yesterday I decided to use my annual leave day to take a trip to Birmingham and have a look at the real X City Line. See how it compares.
my conclusion is nice try but no cigar! So near yet quite far.
I spent a few mins at Bromsgrove, Barnt Green, Longbridge, Northbridge, Kings Norton and Bournville.
the lack of variety in traffic kills the immersion in the game. The amount of freight (mostly Cl. 66 hauled) is noteworthy. Obviously as well discussed the lack of X Country traffic there is there lack of WMR traffic too. Often I noticed the Hereford services being caught behind a X City and then overtaking around Northbridge.
Some other points:
from my understanding the northern section of the route (beyond Aston) is pretty much all 323s with very marginal freight or diverted XC traffic, but that’s why making the busier south end of the line is so important. It seems ever since the Bakerloo Line was released devoid of anything other than the 72ts that DTG just don’t understand if you want to do immersion you have to do it properly and they just aren’t.
You can walk up to but not use the footbridge at the Longbridge end of Kings Norton.
Longbridge station directly has the disused ramp to the footbridge blocked up. Nice touch.
There’s a footbridge missing between Barnt Green and Longbridge which replaced a foot crossing.
Hewell Lane bridge at the Bromsgrove end of Barnt Green is wrong. The arch was replaced when the line was electrified.
I think TSW struggles with the concept of 2 aspect signalling. I’ve not played it enough to be sure but it seems to give an AWS horn, green aspect and then show the next signal at red.
Why is there a drivers key already in the traction motor isolation switch?!
inclusion of GSMR is good, the sounds and the display are a nice touch.
there are moments where the 323 does sound a bit like the 465 I’ve noticed.
For £30 in the current climate this falls short of what it should be. £15-£20 would have been more sensible, perhaps having a Cl 170 in the offering would have made the extra money more worthwhile.
Could there not be a setting somewhere that has the safety systems turned on as standard? Instating the AWS/DSD etc every time is a bit frustrating.
I’ve been told that unfortunately Dovetail are incompatible with the driving simulators used by at least one TOC. A real shame as it could have brought in some more revenue and been useful to for actual driver training.
not sure what the rule is on posting pictures here but I’m happy to post some from my trip yesterday if anyone wants to make their own comparisons with the game and the real thing.
Offering the BCC starter pack for £30 makes sense, offering just the DLC for the same price makes no sense at all. Especially with no discount for PS users (I assume Xbox users were also not offered a discount). I've seen live streams and recordings and it's always New Street that breaks the immersion for me. New Street is many things but the one thing it is not is quiet. The New Street on the game is deathly quiet.
Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Could just be coincidence of course.
Just start a new thread for it and you’ll be fine. The best thing for those kind of threads is to post a screenshot of the same locations alongside the real photos. I find threads like that interesting to read.
I'm sure Daisy mentioned on the preview stream that one or two (deffo at least one) sounds was taken from the 465 as it wasn't easy to grab from the 323
hst consists are a bit strange not sure any moves to doncaster were back to back power cars on top of another with a duff on the back
Same issue with Crewe
only for short consists who wants to take 4 mk1s up the lickey on the back of a diesel when they could make it so we can take more
You would more likely get a complete set going to Works for overhaul, not just the power cars which, as a pair, would be perfectly capable of running under their own power. In theory a single HST power car could run on its own but didn't happen as you have no option to change ends should the need arise. As regards loco haulage, if needed more likely to be a Class 57 than a 47 these days, depending which company doing the move. Works moves were/are generally contracted out to a FOC who have crews with route knowledge for the full move. GW crews do or at least did not, sign the road beyond Abbotswood Jn going towards Stoke Works and Bromsgrove, only round the corner into Shrub Hill and across the Malverns to Hereford.
On 15th September 2020, 43029 led 43027, 43022, two Mark 3 coaches, a translator coach and 47815 on 5E23 1047 Laira (Plymouth) to Doncaster Works via Lickey.
I think the 47 was with Rail Operations Group at the time.
This is the cavalcade at Cheltenham, 30 miles or so south of Bromsgrove
The runs they are trying to depict ran as power car, 4 mk3s power car.
none ever ran the way they put them into the route.
Both of these comments, seemingly disparate, arise out of the same misapprehension: that in TSW (unlike old MSTS or TSC), trains are easy and quick to build, and cheap in terms of paid developer time.
They are not.
Sure, DTG could introduce three all-new trains with each route- provided the customer base is willing to pay 75 pounds per. Given the howling over the recent inflation adjustment to just 30 pounds, I find this unlikely. Even more unlikely- absurd, really - is the idea that DTG would develop an all-new train just so it could run as AI in the background.
Probably the "Castle Class" conversion runs, then.
You mean like this?
Fully aware of the time needed and the likely cost increases. Is that right or good though?
If it takes far longer now with the current TSW3 to produce than in previous Train simulators then the next simulator to come out would take even longer going on the rate at which DLC production decreases as simulators evolve.
I am fully aware of how niche Trains sims are. Some other ones take even longer than TSW to produce content and still keep going.
My issue is two things one is the speed at which DLC comes out I find personally quite slow as it means routes stay empty or in some cases get peppered with odd increases in trains. Secondly I have concerns that after investing in much DLC early on that the current slow down is either a sign of trouble at the mill or simply that there is little future for the routes I have already.
All valid concerns from myself who has been following the scene for decades.
It will continue while DTG keep the tools for themselves and a select few associates. As I've said previously, MSTS, Trainz, TSC et al grew like wildfire because they were designed with content creation in mind. For MSTS we got the cheap as chips Train Sim Modeller which allowed even 3D dummies like me to knock together a few buildings or station signs etc. TSC we got the not quite so cheap or easy to use 3D Canvas, now known as 3D Crafter and for those prepared to learn it, Blender. I've even got an ancient copy of Paint Shop Pro 7 kicking around somewhere on disc that was my go to for texturing etc.
By keeping things in house with TSW and adapting a format which presumably requires high end (i.e. expensive) 3D modelling and art software there is no one cutting their teeth on freeware who then form up into groups who take a crack at payware - like 3DTS or Blue Arrow (although with regard to the former, Run 8 is also tightly locked down as regards third party content production).
Perhaps our perspective has changed too. I no longer really value the prospect of sitting down and taking months to build a freeware route in one of the sims, for a 500 download score and a few thank yous. I still dabble in Trainz with the odd model railway project which more often than not ends up deleted. However I'm sure there are some up and coming creators who would relish the prospect of getting their hands on a route editor and SDK for TSW. But DTG CBA to give us even a half decent scenario editor.
In terms of the speed at which dlc come out, dtg employees aren't superhumans. They can't create a route, the train, the models, sounds, physics, graphics, timetables in a short amount of time. Then they got to test it so it can be played. If you're expecting dlc to come out every month, that's not possible given how long things take. They probably are working their bottoms off making each dlc and expecting them to work even harder to pump out for quickly isn't reasonable.
This seems to be the exact consist that is depicted in game. This is fine, but it would be nice to have a few different ones, and to be able to make your own! We could make more of our own fun with a consist editor. Waiting longer to add it just makes it more complex as there are more items to address from the released stock. It really should have been a much earlier priority.
Has anyone been able to find the working timetable for the time this route is set online anywhere? I believe it’s the Summer 2019 timetable.
Missing my point, were did I say harder work is needed?
Missed my point completely, I fully expect the DLC to be out slowly I follow streams, threads, release dates and forum chatter etc.
Also the guys at DTG do work hard and for that I am grateful. However all I am doing is noting that as time goes on the slower the DLC comes out. That's not me saying nobody is working hard it's me saying that routes are now coming with one or 2 trains tops. And the frequency of routes is quite far apart. In some cases a route is released amongst much fanfare then that's it. No more content. Done etc. I will repeat this is not a reflection of hard work it's a reflection of the Simulation now and what is available an more so what is not for those of us who would like some busier stations etc.
I will keep supporting the content when it comes out and I feel its worth it.
That’s really useful. Thank you.
No problem, they have timetables going back to the mid 1990's so it is a useful resource.
Back in the days of Atari cassettes one guy could produce an entire videogame by himself.
Games get more complex. Fact of life.
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