Train Sim World 3: Laudable Lowlands

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Alex, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    There’s probably reasons why it could be more affected to PlayStation, though I can’t think ill intent to be one, also the release dates will have to play to Sony rules aswell, if the issue got fixed today or tomorrow etc it doesn’t mean it could get released on Thursday.

    it’s better to delay than release and have issues present for a while. If the same happened on Xbox I would be glad of the delay rather than knowingly release bugs.
     
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  2. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I'd definitely like to see closed routes, or even routes that are still around today, but used to be much different.
     
  3. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    This route to me instead of being the icing on the cake is the mould on the bread. We seem to be getting a procession of one train modern day routes with a total acceptance by many that huge empty stations are some how immersive or realistic. They look wrong and present no operational challenge ie green lights no conflicting moves.

    Judging by the stream some bugs are present and the route lacks some TSW3 features. The track record for Rivet fixing these issues in the past isn't great.

    At least we have some great German content and creators like Joe for the timetables and TSG for ace DB rolling stock.

    If the future of UK train simulation is one train A to B no branches and only modern day then its going to be a very repetitive experience.
     
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  4. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Have just watched the stream in full; I thought the 385 and the scenery overall looked nice, but regarding the long-term playbility of the route, I'm not sure - so my excitement levels aren't that great if I'm honest.

    Positives:

    - Let me just say that while I think there are a loft of improvements needed (especially timetable), I do congratulate the Rivet team on their longest route to date and is fantastic progression for them in TSW.
    - Having the SDO feature for trains doors implemented (and unique door closure times too) is great, now if we can get that for the Electrostars that would be awesome!
    - Having the interior of stations modelled is fantastic, and certainly gives each station their own character.
    - TMS is another great addition (perhaps the best in the route) and has set a benchmark for DTG to follow.
    - Cab cam was another interesting feature.
    - Was surprised how good the trams looked which is a bonus.

    Negatives:
    - I'm rather concerned with recent UK-based TSW 3 routes which seemed to be characterised by large, empty stations and rather lifeless routes overall. I love this route in real-life, but I think this route (like Cross City) for TSW has come way too early before any extra modern rolling stock is available. As such, I'd of rather seen a 2014-based route from Glasgow Central to anywhere which could have at least had frequent 314s from existing content, more freight opportunities etc. For future UK content, route choice needs to be made with existing rolling stock in mind, or simply avoid this continuing theme of one-loco routes :| and large, empty stations without appropriate trains.
    - The timetable looked okay (although still AI-generated times which is a shame), but with just the basic 385 services, could get quite boring very quickly with what looks like a lot of green signals overall - again, at least they could have giving us more RHTT services other than just one (why not rail tours too?). Additionally, with the departure from Waverley in timetable mode, I did not recall seeing hardly any other AI traffic - considering we've come from Rush Hour in TSW 2 with the likes of London Commuter to such in TSW 3 nowadays is a huge disappointment - also considering the amount of traffic seen in the Bremen route as a recent comparison. Again, while this comes down to route choice, I simply don't want empty routes! On this subject, why was the main concourse at Waverley completely empty of passengers?
    - I thought the '10 features in 10 minutes' seemed to overly focus on stuff which doesn't really add that much (or perhaps even necessary?) to a train sim such as elevators, moths, pianos...
    - A lack of consistency: a prime example being the GSM-R not being implemented at all functionality wise.
    - No coupling/uncoupling in timetable mode (only in scenario): seems a wasted opportunity to have none at all which is frustrating.
    - Not sure entirely, but I thought at times there were quite a few micropauses and really hope performance is better than the Bremen route on Series X.
     
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  5. mortal1234

    mortal1234 Member

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    Gutted I have to wait an extra week to play this…. When I first saw the “important announcement” for PS4 and PS5 players I was getting really excited that add ons manager was going to be releasing with this route or something….. That was painful :(.

    The route looks amazing. Will give it a 9/10 for scenery as there are a few very minor things that could do with a fix such as lighting up princess street a little more at night.. The sounds of the 385 are too notch. I really hope we get more routes to be added to Waverley in the future. A lot of potential !!!.
     
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  6. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    That would mean we would only see routes in the South with only electrostars. There really wouldn't be variety anymore. Can't extend the same route over and over again. Making multiple new trains isn't easy especially if you have to add new features to it. Modeling several different coaches takes time, implementing simugraph takes time, etc. And rivet is a small team. The 323 also had a lot of work done to it as well so dtg probably didn't have time to create another new train with it. It might feel empty sure but if you start in a new region, it's gonna start off quiet. You gotta think about how big/small the team is, licenses and the whole development process.
     
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  7. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    The sounds of the 385 aren't perfect. It's missing specific sounds such as the transition sound you hear on the real unit. There's looping running sounds. It's not terrible but it could have been better.
     
  8. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Apologies, this was not what I meant exactly. For context, this meant a couple things. Firstly, when I mentioned existing UK content, that included all the BR locos as well as the likes of the 465, 166, HST, 150, 395 etc - so not just Electrostars. Secondly, I'd like to see a few more routes (but not all obviously) around areas in the same era we already have; New Street and Glasgow Central are good examples with suitable rolling stock already present - thus you already have the potential of a more exciting timetable from the start, especially AI traffic. Brighton is a great example of such.

    I appreciate more content takes time, but this current one-loco trend cannot continue with routes that are some of the busiest in real-life. Smaller routes for example are acceptable, but the likes of New Street and Waverley I felt came way too early to TSW - and thus too empty. Again, regarding routes in new areas, why not start with smaller ones (East Coastway came before London Commuter as an example), instead of having the largest stations/routes first.
     
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  9. SteveRail

    SteveRail Active Member

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    Agree with this but this is why they really need to be strategic with their routes, we now have Waverley, Glasgow Central, Glasgow QS, Birmingham NS & St Pancras as pretty empty major stations in the UK. I think they need to be releasing routes centred on these areas, in the near future.

    Obviously some will then say what about routes in other areas but if there’s s bit of open strategy then I would think overall people would accept the thinking.
     
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  10. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Well-Known Member

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    It's a good idea to have more trains running on those stations, tho, I can see why DTG choose to appeal to more people wanting different content rather than how full the station looks like. If they'd do it like you mentioned it would take years to get anything outside those areas. I thought about it too, making only extensions to routes mixed with a route comming off of one major shared station, like how Dresden or Brighton is used twice. But in the end, the area and used trains would get very repetitive very fast, and wouldn't alow for any other time period ever.
     
  11. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I think that'll be their long term goal. Get the big stations down and start connecting/extending the lines. Third party devs then have the option to "help out" and do a section of a route as a new piece of dlc.
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not being patronising. Just that all DTG and their associates seem to be producing lately for the UK are modern electrified routes. Maybe it's just easier to map the physics in Simugraph but there's so much scope for diesel worked UK content, which is being neglected. Doesn't even have to be vintage, something modern with a 185 or maybe an East Anglian "Basil".
     
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  13. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this was a result of last years community poll? I don't know if VFD are really that much easier to make in Simugraph than the old stock. My mediocre background knowledge in simulations suggests otherwise.
     
  14. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Question to those, who watched the stream - was night lighting shown? If yes, how was it?
     
  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    There really does need to be variety, old and new. Both MSTS and TSC managed it and were all the better for it.

    I quite like the new route but I do agree if all we see is a point to point route with one unit and a layered in class 66, things will get stale, possibly even for those who only like modern routes. This route would have been much improved if it had the line to Dunblane for instance but I know that is quite a tall order in extra time to build.

    I agree they could start using some of the big stations we now have as a basis for future routes but that means that we won't see such a variety of area or eras for some time. Maybe making train DLC as well as route DLC should be looked at, we haven't had any train DLC for a long time.

    I am having a renaissance with TSW at the moment but if routes like this new route and BCC are going to represent the majority of UK DLC over the next year I can see my interest waning again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
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  16. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    The lack of other suitable rolling stock is exactly what is why I have not pre-ordered yet, nor have bought BCC. Since Rush Hour, where we were able to see what is possible when nearly all services on a busy route are representet, I just feel a huge dissappointment when seeing other routes so empty. This is valid for new, but also old routes like HMA. BRO was again an awesome demonstration of what is possible, despite only introducing one new train.

    I did not really understand the decision of making a new route in Scottland which cannot take advantage of the sole ScottRail train already in the game.
     
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  17. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    To all Playstation users. While it is disappointing to have to wait until next Tuesday to play the route, is is really such a big problem? It’ll still be there then to buy and hopefully without the bug. I’m sure that there are many players like me who, despite playing on Xbox or PC, have to wait until the day after that (1st February) when they get paid. I look at the positives as I can gauge the reaction from the community before buying. In addition, as a Game Pass member, hopefully the 10% Game Pass discount will be active by then.
     
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  18. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    ...quite good and informative! The Class 385 looks nice and has a very detailed interior. At the beginning there were echo problems with the sound and later Matt braked twice too late and missed the plattform. There was even a JD slip of the tongue, who mistook Class 314 for Class 315, which some again interpreted as a leak. ;) Jasper again shared a lot of background infos on the route development process and some extras. There is, for example, a piano that stands in the train station and plays a melody, working elevators and small plush dog collectables. "The 10 things to know" part is a great addition to the preview streams and to see the nicely modeled castle of Edinburgh in fast motion was really a highlight. Even the night lighting at the end was impressive. There was also the tram in action. So all in all it was worth watching again...
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well it will be interesting to see what Skyhook bring to the table as we know that will be diesel. Unfortunately we also know some of their previous efforts have been less than stellar.

    I agree re the German routes having spent a fair bit of time on them of late. They are night and day as regards layers compared to the UK one train plus a 66 stuff. Even the new 110 has found the way into a number of routes (sadly without its N-wagons) and is fantastic to thrash along on Munich to Augsburg and other routes. The 101 and G6 also turn up elsewhere and really add to the experience.

    The choice of UK routes is also a factor. BCC was a poor choice really in that the 323 is fairly limited where else it can run. Many of us have had enough of Electrostars and this 385 on EdbGQS is still not going to be layered anywhere else. If Rivet had set it in the start of the Sprinter era with a 158 in Regional Railways livery, that could immediately have layered onto WCL main line services.
     
  20. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I think this new route is different enough to warrant its existence, we needed more scotrail in TSW, remember the biggest issue people had with GCC was the fact that it was only a 314? Well this route brings us a step closer to not having that issue on future scotrail DLC.

    I also think it’s different enough to the cross city line, this one has a much faster pace to it, and also the EMU is almost 3 decades newer, and it shows. Those black & grey control panel’s and TMS systems give it a refreshing feel. Theres also the fact that the 385 is a very unique looking EMU, and it’s among the most modern stock in TSW, only beaten by the 484 I think?

    There was a huge outcry last year for modern UK OLE lines, and TSW is now delivering & beyond that, it’s delivering the on-board systems we need.

    The mistake made with TSW was the over-saturation of southern third rail DLC, it was too many Electrostars and made the modern content stale. Routes like Cross City & this release are a breath of fresh air.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
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  21. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Right at the end of the preview (time-stamped):

     
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  22. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the trend of TSW doing routes with major stations with hardly any trains in them, yeah it's a shame but in my opinion it's absolutely not a reason to avoid creating a route. Would people have preferred we had not got BCC at all as New Street is empty, or not have SEHS because barely a third of St Pancras is populated? I don't buy it.

    I also don't get the sudden obsession with routes having to have multiple branches. Point to Point routes seem to have been fine with the community up until like last week it seems. And we have to remember this is a Rivet project, not DTG. We have to remember that this is already a much more substantial product than any of their previous offerings. If this was a DTG route then I too would be a bit miffed it didn't include the line to Stirling, for example.
     
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  23. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    There is something very wrong in the lighting as the train enters the tunnel at 22:42 there is what almost looks like a camera transition as the lighting goes dark from left to right.
     
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  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it as a problem. BCC is busy as the cross city timetable is busy. Yes it would be great to see layers, especially at New Street but it certainly isn't a deal breaker for me. BCC is one of the best releases so far.

    I have always felt, since TSC days that a stretch of mainline with branches gives some variety, it isn't a show stopper for me but I do feel it is an opportunity missed. This doesn't just apply to DTG content but third parties as well.

    One of my most played routes on TSW is actually Cathcart circle, it may only have one train but you do get a variety of routes to drive.
     
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  25. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see a TSW remake of the Weardale & Teesdale Network route, set in the exact same era of BR Green too. That route combined with TSW's service mode would make for a great experience, so many different paths to take. They could even make an alternate timetable for it using steam locomotives if the correct locomotives were ever added to the game. I think it'll remain a pipedream though as the route has a whopping 200 miles worth of track!
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes that would be a dream route. It is a favourite in TSC (very atmospheric) and could be stunning in TSW. I would hope it would come with a Wordsell G5 and some old NER non corridor carriages though, plus a leaky Raven Q6 with LNER coal hoppers.
     
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  27. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Oh deffo! Though to be a bit more greedy, would like to see it extended up to Newcastle just to have a real good thrash along the mainline with an express
     
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  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Very, very briefly at the end of the stream. Not enough to judge how effective it is. But, just like Birmingham, it didn't give the impression of the center of a major metropolis, which is where Waverley is I understand. Your guess is as good as mine as to why more night running was not included.

    If there is another stream, we need an extended run at night covering all sections of the route, including Glasgow and the rural areas.
    Failing that, early adopters on the forum can update the quality of night lighting for us
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
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  29. SteveRail

    SteveRail Active Member

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  30. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    A couple of thing to point out though. Firstly, the new Edinburgh-Glasgow route is still only one train (385); if they had created this second ScotRail route instead from Glasgow Central in the same timeframe of the 314, then this would not of been a primarily one-loco route. Secondly, if the next ScotRail route is diesel focused, or not at Waverley or Queen Street, how will the 385 be included? Finally, you mention the saturation of Southern, third-rail content, but would that not be the same eventually for a third, fourth, fifth ScotRail route?
     
  31. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I assume Rivet wanted to do this route since it’s their local line, plus it brings in 2 other major stations for Scotrail, so the assets are there now. IRL this route is a one train route, so it doesn’t really matter that the 385 is on its own.

    That’s upto Rivet/DTG to decide, but the point remains that there are now 2 Scotrail units available in TSW, thus we are one step closer. Like you said in your first point, there are routes available where both the 385 & 314 could be used to some extent.

    If the majority of TSW 3 UK content is Modern Scotrail AC routes, then yeah it will be the same. The problem isn’t that we have too many routes that are all based around the same place with the same stock, but it’s how close those DLC’s are released together.
     
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  32. ApollonJustice

    ApollonJustice Member

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    This is true, of course.
    However, it remains conspicious, that most of these delay causing issues seem to occur on PS...
     
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  33. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    You mean this
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And this
    [​IMG]
     
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Or the "Basils" British Rail Class 755 - Wikipedia which by all accounts on diesel power are quite thrashy and would be quite nice on a run across the Wherry Lines or out to Sheringham from Norwich.
     
  35. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Before the released date which is tomorrow ;):cool:
     
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  36. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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  37. farLander#3643

    farLander#3643 New Member

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    It's way too early in the year to have the 2022 survey results affect what routes are being released.

    Matt revealed in the preview stream that the source of the PS delay (on this route, anyways) was a controller issue. What specifically I'm not sure but I'm sure it'll be ironed out since it's only a few days.
     
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  38. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Yea I know what you mean such as pacers turbostars and sprinters
     
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  39. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I do not mean the most recent poll, which has ended in 2023 of by the way.
     
  40. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    From the reviews so far, for XSX I’m going to be holding back from purchase, and will decide to change or hold that depending on what stuff gets fixed.

    Definitely can’t justify anywhere near £30 on what it’s been reviewed like.
     
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  41. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Yes! This is exactly what everyone should do with any purchase. Particularly DLC.
    Once you’ve bought it there is no incentive for them to fix it.
     
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  42. ApollonJustice

    ApollonJustice Member

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    Thanks for the Information. Haven't been able to watch the stream on youtube in full yet.
     
  43. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    I done the same thing with Arosa Line as I wasn’t at all impressed with what I saw as scenery issues

    To this day I do not own that route

    there really needs to be more accountability on respective game stores for maintenance of a product, especially With the strict and limited refund criteria
     
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  44. Pookiebarra

    Pookiebarra Active Member

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    slightly underwhelmed, too quiet not enough AI . Sound in the cab is awful...sounds like a plane coming overhead. i hope it works out
     
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  45. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Can't really do anything with ai. Don't have the correct train and/or correct livery in game where it runs on this route
     
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  46. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    I would usually say if another scotrail came out then theirs more chances it will provide and help this route out, but I don’t think I’ve seen enough to say they would end up layering it on, just seems more nowadays once the routes out it’s done and unless payware is coming don’t really expect it.
     
  47. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how true to life it is as I don't have experience in the real cab but from the perspective of playing a sim/game whilst wearing headphones, it would be a more enjoyable experience if the wind noise was reduced.
     
  48. Xander1986

    Xander1986 Active Member

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    My advice is to use the AI service and you hear the difrence between the cab and the pessanger seat ;) The sound in the cab is more like you drive in a tornado xD
     
  49. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    From videos Ive watched on this route, it sounds very similar to the 484 on island line. I know they didn't have real sound recordings, but the train running up to speed sounds sounds just like the 484 speeding up
     
  50. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Replying to the second post which references the first: while obviously at this stage nothing can be done with having a quiet route AI-wise etc, Rivet should have chosen a more suitable route in the first place which actually does have extra traffic opportunities. Or, even better, a new route that could have featured the 314 too. Then, in turn, whatever train was chosen instead for this hypothetical route, could have also given Cathcart more traffic/services too - it's a win-win. Thus, I'm confused to why this did not happen.
     
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