Train Sim World 3 - Southeastern High Speed Deep Dive

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Alex, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    390
    God forbid I expect realism from a train SIMULATOR...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    2,557
    Likes Received:
    5,394
    Theres always going to have to be compromises, especially given that we have just 2 kettles currently in TSW.

    Im sure the majority would prefer a steam excursion with an incorrect loco then not all.

    Hopefully once the steam loco stable is extended and we have better suited locos to run these will be able to be substituted in. Until that time this is a reasonable compromise IMO.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  3. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    2,373

    Yes that's the ones. I couldn't recall how they were spelt. Too early in the morning.
     
  4. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    2,373
    No I fully understand but sometimes you have to allow for a little bit of artistic licence here and there. Who is going to look at a Steam engine whether it has the correct OHLE stickers on it or AWS for that matter, whilst 99.5% of people are enjoying the game / experience?

    How many Class 395's have we seen tarted up to look like Azuma's or Class 800 trains, How many Class 377's have we seen tarted up to look like South Western Railway or Southwest Trains liveries.

    How many GP38's have we seen running on the London Underground, How many ICE trains have we seen running along the SEHS or Northern Trans Pennine. How many HST's have we seen running along HS1 or tees Valley? , How many Arosa Linie Rolling stock have we seen running along the GWML?

    There's nothing wrong with a little bit of artistic license. Technically if you are going to complain you might as well moan about the 1970's based TEA stock as well because nowadays they use later versions of the TEA wagons, BUT we use what we have available to us. I dont care that the TEA's are based from the 1970's.

    A Railtour service which I would rather see to be honest regardless if it has working AWS or the incorrect H&S stickers. And I would rather see the TGV at speed along the HS1 to be honest.

    I have asked if we could have in scenario creator for the Steam locos (both) the Steam loco + support coach option then the rake of Claret or Blood & custard coaches.

    Hentis
     
    • Like Like x 11
  5. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    I've seen steam trains pass thru sittingbourne a lot more often than the class 20 on the current railtour.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    2,354
    He is entitled to express his opinion whether you like it or not. How about you take your own advice, 'if you do not like complaining posts don't read them'.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  7. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    390
    You seem to be arguing against the concept of detail in a train sim.

    I presume you will appreciate that there is a difference between the Creators Club and official content.

    45596 Bahamas having a single chimney is acceptable artistic license. Arguably so is the lack of stuff like OHLE stickers. But having it use a completely inaccurate brake system and lacking mandatory safety systems is another.

    Again - not without AWS and air brakes, you haven't.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. SteveRail

    SteveRail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2022
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    58
    Looks really good, greatly improved from the current version on the face of it.

    I’d love if they’d extended down to dover & ramsgate. Obviously would take longer etc. but feel it would be much more complete.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    326
    How has Joe managed to fit all services on all platforms? It's going to be very laggy I expect.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    707
    Cuz Joe can solve pretty much everything lol. He has the skill and expertise
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    2,354
    This is where DTG are just not listening, people want complete routes.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2022
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    324
    I'm not so sure if it will be laggy. BML has a lot more traffic and it is working quite stable on 20-25 FPS on PS4 at least right now. Although on BML there are only two liveries available, while here it will be more plus the new graphic features. Let's wait and see, I hope they have found some way to tweak it so it will be working fine. Otherwise it would be just a waste of their time if it would be laggy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,235
    Yes, as you say, it is a train SIMULATOR, not a real train. It is a computer game. If it was real, I would expect to be paid (or at least to be on strike).
     
    • Like Like x 10
  14. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    1,086
    DTG have gone out of their way to extend SEHS to roughly 90 miles of total track and then they're being accused of not listening. People wanted extensions; this is the first one. They have to draw a line somewhere; otherwise the price of the route would need to increase, then the same people complaining would probably be saying it costs too much.
     
    • Like Like x 16
  15. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    1,392
    While everyone wants realism in a simulator, when it comes to the likes of TSW there's got to be some realistic expectations too.

    For instance, while it might be slightly unrealistic for having TGV services, surely there has got to be more unrealism from the fact that St Pancras, other than the Southeastern Highspeed section, is completely empty, as well as missing Eurostar trains etc?

    That goes for any route in TSW, unless the whole of the UK network was eventually modeled, there's going to be missing services as how is every piece of rolling stock and/or TOC going to be included - that's where in TSW the extra rolling stock layers come in. Yes, the use of existing rolling stock on different routes in game where they might not operate in real life might be cause for debate, but this is a major benefit for me.

    For example, the TGV Duplex 200 is a fantastic piece of rolling stock and very rewarding to drive, why should it be limited to just the LVG route? Realism? Yes, but again, this is a game, and I want to use my loco DLC as much as possible, preferably in timetable mode, without having to use scenario planner.

    Just to be clear, I'm in favour of realism of course, but sometimes having extra layers of existing rolling stock to make a timetable more interesting is a good enough reason for me.
     
    • Like Like x 18
  16. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    197
    I hope they’ve improved the sounds. The current 395 sounds like a diesel train idling! They don’t sound quite like that irl from the cab.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    518
    AWS isn't needed to drive though, it can be turned on our off, whereas without TVM you can't drive on HS1. Not sure if this applies to AI trains though - it'd be nice to see ICE3Ms as AI!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    518
    This looks fantastic, it's hugely exciting, and put me in the camp of people delighted to see TGVs on there! It may not be 100% accurate but it's definitely plausible, and the route always felt a bit incomplete without international services. If it was up to me we'd have all the Eurostar services subbed in with TGVs and ICE3Ms!
     
    • Like Like x 5
  19. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    1,392
    Absolutely agree here. I wish there would be an option for those of us who want to have at least an hourly TGV service between Ashford and St Pancras in timetable mode (it's not the same using scenario planner) would do - the Duplex 200 is one of my all-time favourite locos in game and would complement the Class 395s nicely for added variety.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    946
    They're doing that now.
     
  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,981
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    They already increased the price.

    Sure it's extended but 395 services mostly terminate at Ramsgate, Dover Priory and some at faversham hence why it's not a complete route for 395 services. The extension to dartford doesn't really add much at all anyways. Should've gone to either victoria or charing cross for the 375/465

    The extension requests I've seen asked for the route to go to London Victoria, London Charing Cross, Ramsgate and Dover Priory so whilst they have done an "extenison" , they haven't done what most asked for
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
    • Like Like x 5
  22. moofeen#2182

    moofeen#2182 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2021
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    132
     
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    8,708
    Likes Received:
    12,654
    AIUI, railtours without modern equipment (which includes Mk 1 coaches) may operate on main lines at speeds not exceeding 25 mph.
     
  24. jeff.engle

    jeff.engle Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2021
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    33
    I just bought Southeastern a few days ago to go with my delux pre-order because I wanted to run the longer route. Wow! Glad to read about all the additional services - especially more freight. Looking forward to the new update. Well done article.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2022
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    924
    I am not at all saying the pricing is perfect but I don't quite see how they have increased the price.
    Starter packs are 30 quid which if you think about it is normal dlc price (£24.99) for the route and another 5 quid for the core updates and training centre which ain't too bad.

    The standard edition is 40 quid which includes 3 routes which for the sake of simplicity we can break down to £11.50 per route 5 quid for the core updates and training centre and 50p for the extra decals which again is fair.

    The deluxe edition is 50 quid and includes 4 routes at £11.13 (rounded up from 11.125) each taking us for simplicity's sake up to £44.50 then add the 5 quid for the core updates and training centre and 50p for the decals which once more is decent.

    By no means am I saying it is perfect but the price of TSW3 is not bad at all when you break it down.

    Sorry for going on a bit and I do apologise for any mistakes and will correct them but it is 1:20 in the morning and I am incredibly tired.
    Also I haven't included preorder discount as that was a whole load more of maths which I couldn't be bothered with but I think what I have done displays my point well enough.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  26. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    182
    DTG Alex great article, but might I suggest next time to include a small map of all the locations mentioned. For those not too familiar with the locality of all the stations that would be a great help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
    • Like Like x 9
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  27. CUFCfan616

    CUFCfan616 New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    21
    I think what would be ideal for this would be an option to turn off layers if you don't want to see stuff like rail tours running alongside normal scheduled services
     
    • Like Like x 3
  28. Cd1990

    Cd1990 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    181
    Surely that can't be the correct font on the 465's destination screen? A minor issue of course, as it's going to be even better to drive this route now! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
  29. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    1,086
    TSW3 is more expensive than TSW2, the routes included in the package are larger than the standard we’ve had in the past but whether that is just the game or if route DLC are going up in price has yet to be seen.

    Thing with the extension is that HS1 is the main part of the route, it’s in the title Southeaster high speed. It makes sense that the HS1 section got the extension. If the route was called Southeastern Commuter, doing a big extension for the 375/465 would make sense.
     
  30. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,510
    Likes Received:
    2,597
    SEHS comes with the Deluxe package. There is no reason to purchase it separately unless you want to play the TSW2 version.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 2
  31. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    390
    I'm not so sure. It'd certainly be more unrealistic if they filled St Pancras with LIRR trains, for instance.
    And in any case most of the time St Pancras will still be entirely empty except for the Southeastern platforms.
    That attitude to AWS ended after Southall.
    Yes, this has been a common request - see stuff like West Cornwall Local and the NTP layers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2022
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    487
    You wasting your money this way. Deluxe Bundle already included the Extended Version of SEHS, you don't need to buy the TSW2 version of SEHS. Do a refund if it's still possible to do.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  33. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    2,373
    Yeah the price raised from £24.99 - £34.99 last year and people complained, even though they had the free update and three brand new routes. People will always complain at the price of anything. So this year we get the new game and updates 3 brand new routes and an extension to a previously released route all for £39.99 an extra £5 based on the standard edition. That's not a bad price. Considering most routes have been costing us about £24.99.


    The question is how far do you want them to go. when do they stop, how much extra money will this add to the budget so that they can bring the project in on time and budget for them to be able to keep it with in the price, instead of having to put extra money on top.
    People will always moan to be honest about not getting this that or what ever else.

    Hentis
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    The price is fine. Look at f1 22 £60 for a game that's practically the same as last year and the year before.
     
  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    5,802
    Likes Received:
    9,511
    I don’t think I would entirely qualify Training Center/Centre/Hub as a new route.
    Probably something the intern knocked together over a couple of days.
    SEHS is a rework/rebuild of the original and for all we know the groundwork might even have been kicking around in the vault from when that was made.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    I still maintain that GWE would have been a much better route to extend/ upgrade, but I'm glad that they're making this upgrade feel pretty substantial. I hope that only 45596 Bahamas is used for the railtours, but I guess if other Jubilees are spawned we could pretend it's "masquerading" as a scrapped classmate. It wouldn't be the first time a Jubilee has done that.

    I'm curious about Ashford depot, I'd like to see how much of it we can actually explore. Having the TGV's in may break the immersion for some but I'll just be grateful to get another route to open it out on.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  37. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2020
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    518
    In real life yes, but I'm referring to Train Sim World. You can play UK routes without AWS, but the TVM system is mandatory as that replaces, rather than adds to, the main signals.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    Your plan is merging BML with SEHS via Chatham and Southeastern Main Lines
     
  39. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    This is a fab idea, would be willing to pay for the Chatham mainline and pay for the merge ( dtgs time to redo all the time tables) which i think is the only thing holding such a project back.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,981
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    Yeh but claiming that they did what people wanted is a bit misleading.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,981
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    Not my plan. That's what some have asked for though
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,981
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    Basically doing what they should've done with that route in the hs1 section last year to begin with. Still shocks me how they got so wrong to begin with
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    390
    You can, yes. But previously all the stock on UK routes (where appropriate) had the option to use AWS.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,235
    Everything’s gone up since last year. I expect that it will go up even more next year if the current inflation rates continue and power costs keep rising as they have been. I expect the employees would like a pay rise as well. :)
     
  45. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    1,957
    What did i miss? Are there hints for a class 92 loco?
     
  46. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    800
    I totally agree with your. Finally after a long year they are able to make the night lighting look more realistic, now we are waiting for the sound team to step up their game, and give us the community what we wanted which is more realistic track joint sound and other train track sound.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  47. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    5,369
    Likes Received:
    14,068
    Some of the people who pipe up on every thread to air their disapproval of everything TSW are definitely the same people you see sitting on park benches shouting at pigeons.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  48. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    390
    No, driverwoods just tends to spout random wishlists.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  49. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    5,512
    True, I’m glad I refunded first time round. It does seem that a few of their releases have significant discounts within 90days
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,072
    Likes Received:
    6,126
    Well, I admit to being a frequent critic of TSW and I don't apologize for it.

    Same with pigeons. Some pigeons deserve to be reprimanded, pooping all over the damned benches like they do. I call them out every chance I get.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page