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Train Sim World Playtesting

Discussion in 'News & Updates' started by TrainSim-Dmitri, Jan 24, 2019.

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  1. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Hi everyone. Some news for you today.

    As part of our efforts to improve our understanding of how players get to grips with Train Sim World we're running a series of playtests at the Dovetail Games studio at the end of February.

    We have approached an external team to run these playtest sessions, and we're approaching train enthusiasts from many different places online to find the people we most need to hear from. Heading up the recruiting is YouTuber Colonel Failure (his day job involves this kind of research, so he seemed like a good fit), so if you see a post from him on this topic elsewhere it is definitely legitimate.

    Just so everyone knows, ColonelFailure's forum ID is https://forums.dovetailgames.com/members/colonelfailure.9583/

    Anyone is free to sign up to the test, but we're looking for specific kinds of train fans so even though you may have a lot to offer this may not be the test for you. It is unlikely to be our last test, so there may be opportunities for you to get involved in the future.

    If you've any questions please post below.
     
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  2. Ramagani

    Ramagani New Member

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    Were i can Sign up. I Play the game also on my Youtube Channel, and im Traindriver in Germany.
     
  3. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    As you’ve posted this in the TSW forum is the intention to only recruit existing TSW players? Elsewhere you say ‘Train Enthusiasts from many different places’. That might imply currently non simulation enthuasists, or again you might be just stating a geographical variety - or both. Equally in looking for ‘specific kinds’ and not giving any hints about what you’re looking for isn’t very helpful. You don’t specify how much time is involved right whether attendance will be need on site; both of those will dramatically reduce your pool. In one place it says ‘online’ and then earlier it says ‘at the DTG studios’. There’s one side to wanting to keep the plans confidential, but you also have to give people an idea of whether it’s worth applying for.

    I think reading it you’re looking for both current and prospective players. You’ve posted this in all the TSW groups, but nothing that I can see in the TS1 forums. I might not be alone in thinking that if you’re trying to find out about players ‘getting to grips’ with a Train Simulation game a smattering of TS1 (and Trainz) players might be useful in the group. That might tell you something about migration from one product to the others.

    While not trying to be cynical I’m surprised you’ve needed to employ an external team to run this. Generally you do that when you don’t have the expertise in house. The value to any external team is the additional knowledge that they bring (and you’ll know more about Train Simming than they do) not the process of running a valid test, which generally isn’t all that complex.

    Perhaps one thing you might encourage your management to sponsor is a poll of skill sets that forum members have and whether, in the interests of the hobby, they’d be willing to donate some of their time. You might be pleasantly surprised.
     
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  4. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Hi Ramagani, this announcement is purely for introducing you to Colonel Failure who will be running the survey. We will provide all relevant details some time in February, so please stay tuned! We deliberately left out most details as we are still working on organising this survey.

    Thanks.
     
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  5. ColonelFailure

    ColonelFailure New Member

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    We're posted this here so it can be referred to externally to demonstrate that it is a legitimate offer. Those on the TSW forum are welcome to sign up but it is unlikely they'll be selected for this initial test (hence the lack of a signup link).

    More succinctly, this post isn't directed at existing TSW players - it's purely in place to demonstrate authenticity.
     
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  6. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    So ‘Hi everyone’, is “everyone” but anyone on this forum?

    Did the ‘external team’ happen to mention that by putting the verification posting on this forum likely invalidates any findings that you have? If people when thinking of applying to be members of the test follow this link then they might start reading other threads and posts. That’s extremely likely to color their opinions (just wait and see how many people who haven’t any knowledge of TrainSims start to talk about the need for an editor after ‘doing some research’!). If your ‘external team’ didn’t point out the risk to you I’d suggest firing them post haste!

    One other reason for not posting here. Large numbers of us think that DTG doesn’t listen to us. So now you tell us that your going to seek input from a group, that largely doesn’t include us, who presumably you’ll listen to? Did anyone think of that?

    May I suggest that if DTG was a brewery, they be unlikely to organize a drinking party properly?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    But DTG does listen to us.
     
    Anthony Pecoraro
    This message by Anthony Pecoraro has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  8. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Anthony Pecoraro nice try Tony but I still think it won’t be enough to get you on the test team.
     
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  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I am not from the UK anyway.
     
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  10. Link-Skywalker

    Link-Skywalker Member

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    Can I ask you to elaborate? I'm not sure I have completely understood what you actually mean.
     
  11. ColonelFailure

    ColonelFailure New Member

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    All good points but not, in this case relevant.
    If a user signing up for this process read every thread on this forum they would doubtless form an opinion, but it's not going to colour the results, because it doesn't affect what it is we're testing.
    This is the starting point for ongoing testing which will inevitably involve experienced, veteran players further down the line.
    Nothing you've said is inaccurate - unless you know what the test is for, who it's aimed at and what we're trying to build a greater understanding of.
    Yes, this is rather vague and mysterious, but oddly enough were I to explain the above that actually would affect those who were part of the test.
     
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  12. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ColonelFailure boy, the pointer on the BS meter just went past MAX.

    If the intention was not to seek out existing TSW players then why post on the User Forum about the Playtesting?If what you’re doing is so a big secret isn’t the user forum kind of the last place you’d sort of signal it - all it will do is lead to speculation about what you’re doing (my bet is on multi player or VR). And if it’s some idea about getting into App based versions of the game (ala Trainz) there is no hope left. Was posting on the user forum the only way to allow potential test candidates that you were for real?

    In the interim could you tap the DTG staff and suggest that rather than posting about trials that we’re not welcome to, and are so mysterious we can’t be told what they’re about an update on the progress of the editor beta might be very welcome?

    Don’t get me wrong, like everyone I’d like more features added to TSW but if there’s any resources or money available at TSW at this time perhaps they should be put to work on things that have been promised and not delivered?


    And for verification purposes you needed to post the same posting on all three of the TSW forums?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  13. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Member

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    Just calm down. So much drama over a "survey". Also best if the thread was just locked for others to see and inquire.
     
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  14. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Delta_Who - the basis for closing down the thread being? And you want it locked so people can 'inquire'? What bit of

    Didn't you get?

    They're not looking for inquiries- not from this forum.
     
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  15. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Member

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    "unlikely for the initial test"
    You don't know what exactly it is, or what it may develop or evolve into. It's still a relevant conversation for some people.
    Now again... calm down.
     
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  16. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Medellinexpat.

    Is the purpose of this survey is to see how badly you can alienate your playerbase, because this is how you do it.

    On this forum DTG are widely criticised for poor communication and disregard for player feedback, so why would you post an announcement for a playtest/survey which doesn't include or have any relevance to anyone on this forum, it's a metaphorical middle finger to the membership here.

    Additionally, why use a forum post to demonstrate to people that the offer is legitimate? That's not something I've ever had to do to prove my authenticity to someone when conducting business.

    You also say that it's unlikely anyone from this forum will be chosen for the survey, but how would you know they are members of this forum? By stating this you'll now get people from this forum signing up with the knowlege that they need to keep their membership of this forum discreet in order to be considered for the opportunity, so you've already polluted your sample.

    DTG are making a mess out of conducting a survey, it really beggars belief. The way you're conducting yourselves makes this whole thing seem nefarious and shady.

    ColonelFailure, I'd go steady dealing with DTG, they're not very well regarded in the world of simulation, especially after the FSW/MFSX debacle. I say this as someone who enjoys watching your streams and doesn't want to see your good name tarnished by the ineptitude DTG so frequently displays.
     
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  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Because it’s for DTG to see how easy new players can learn it. We can’t do it because we play it already.
     
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  18. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Anthony Pecoraro

    Well, I guess we shouldn't discount it, but that's a new key issue for me (the ease of learning the game). I'd rate it as unlikely.

    You seem pretty confident though - I've gone back through the thread and I can't see that there's any suggestion from them that is the case. Are you ITK on this - or is that just an informed guess?
     
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  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I saw something on Discord.
     
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If the purpose of this post was to let people know that Colonel Failure was doing something fro DTG then that point has been gotten across.
    If the purpose of the post was supposed to be good PR, that failed...
    Better to have stated the reasons for the test and let people dissect that, or not say anything at all
     
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  21. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    OK, Anthony Pecoraro that's fair enough. But if that's the case, why the great secrecy on here? In ever understand why DTG will reveal information on Discord but not make it available here. Still I guess that's their choice.

    But if that's the case - and reading ColonelFailure's post why

    Why would the experienced, veteran players, need in the future to perform a test to see how easy it is to learn TSW? Actually, if that's what they are doing none of ColonelFailure's response to me starting

    makes any sense to me, but maybe I just am missing the point.

    Perhaps it's a knockout cup and the veterans come in at the third round stage?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one slightly confused about this post? I have no idea what it is about nor the purpose of it?


    “Anyone is free to sign up to the test, but we're looking for specific kinds of train fans so even though you may have a lot to offer this may not be the test for you.“

    Umm, where is the sign up link or are we secretly selected? Also, there is no information at all what the the tests are for as well as what the purpose and requirements of them are either.


    I feel like this thread doesn’t really have any relevance. At least not to me.
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    We should wait for more information.
     
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  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe the relevance is to those who MAY be contacted and wonder why someone other than DTG is contacting them about testing for DTG. Though that could be me being very literal
     
  25. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ARuscoe yes, that seems to be the case, but isn't the solution there (if people want validation that DTG are the real backers of this) for DTG to send the messages to those who are contacted and ask them to work through ColonelFailure. This idea of posting on the users forums saying that there is going to be a test and then having ColonelFailure send people here to validate that he is in fact fronting an approved exercise is at best convoluted.
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  27. Amtrak America

    Amtrak America Member

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    But they really don’t though and down voting this because I said they don’t doesn’t change anything.
     
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  28. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    How to make friends and influence people.....or maybe not.....
     
  29. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    this is a joke lol
     
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  30. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    This has to be an elaborate April Fools joke.
    I refuse to believe this is something that Dovetail would actually announce and I feel like we're being trolled masterfully.

    Why announce something that has nothing to do with the current playerbase if the intention is to see how new players feel acclimated to the simulator for the first time. Wouldn't this announcement be better served in a private forum for the selected contestants? This seems like a paid promotion done by this Colonel YouTuber, although I realize this is not the intention they wanted to give off.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That entire sentence is based on snippets and conjecture.
    The post above says that they've employed a third party to undertake the testing and the main recruiter is CF. Where's the problem unless you think that you personally should be involved in said testing?
    and let's not forget our liaison doesn't specialise in this software, it's content etc either, so it looks like DTG have no issue going outside of the core focus
     
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  32. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    I watched the Devstream Launch Twitch of TSW's Trans-Pennine route on the day it was recorded when Adam Lucas did it with this chap Colonel Failure and he was embarrassing, he admitted not knowing much about Trains as such as at 12.01 in this video whilst Adam Lucas was describing the desktop features of the Class 101 DMU he asks on camera. what is that nipple for in the middle of the dashboard? If he doesn't know what an AWS bell is on a 1950s constructed British Railways Diesel Multiple Unit, then you have the wrong man for this job, and as for employing an external team outside of DTG's employees and community forum members seems to be a waste of money, does this team have any railway experience from anywhere, or, playing railway associated Train Simulators on computers, they need to be highly proficient in British, German and American Railroad operations and infrastructures, it all sounds extremely amateurish if they don't.
    You can watch the video here -
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  33. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Colonel Failure is just there for recruitment.
     
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  34. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons Flight Sim World failed was because, and I quote, the team wasn’t experienced in planes and how they work and there was no effort to learn about it.

    The last thing we need is DTG employing people that have no knowledge about trains nor have any motivation to learn more about them. It would be very silly and desperate to hire anyone to build and develop Train Sim World. For this type of game/simulator, you need people who are genuinely interested in trains and railways.

    Failure of this will result in a very bad QA and various incorrect and missing features.
     
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  35. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Anthony Pecoraro

    I don’t think that’s correct

    See TrainSim-Dmitri ’s post

    ‘Colonel Failure who will be running the survey’

    Sounds more than recruitment to me.
     
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  36. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps he distributed the survey that DTG creates. We’ll have to wait for more information.
     
  37. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Anthony Pecoraro I kind of doubt that we will get more information about who did or didn't create the survey but again to quote TrainSim-Dmitri (on ColonelFailure)

    What was your source that

     
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  38. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Really? Care to give the source of that quote? I know its project manager wasn't knowledgeable about aircraft originally but I believe he did get his PPL so hardly a lack of effort to learn about it.
     
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  39. Darthtool

    Darthtool Member

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    Is this all about turning the game into something more "youtuber" friendly?... arcade mode and over simplification coming n the future.
     
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  40. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    At this point nobody knows what this about right now, we will all have to wait until they release more information on what they are looking for.
     
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  41. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Michael Newbury agreed we can only speculate. However your post suggests that at some point they will tell us more - that it’s just a matter of time. I’m not sure that we can be certain of that.

    People wait on issues like the progress of the TSW editor and some will respond that ‘we will have to wait until they provide more information’. In fact it’s true of many, many issues on TSW and TS1 (e.g. the 64 bit editor issue). We’re always waiting - sometimes indefinitely.

    So, we can be optimistic and mark this as another piece of information that we need to quietly await or be realistic and file it under ‘DTG customer communications SNAFUs - unlikely to be heard of again’.
     
  42. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    Hmmm, how can it become MORE youtuber friendly? And as it is now released on PS4 and XBox you can't get more arcade and oversimplified than that, can you?
     
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  43. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    TSW isn’t arcadey.
     
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  44. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    Hmmm, it is on Consoles!!!!! It's a world apart from playing it on a PC with mega specifications.
     
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  45. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It allows people who can’t afford a good pc to experience TSW. ;)
     
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  46. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    That's extremely true. Sir, but, they have to go without installing 3rd party reskins of locomotives, etc, which takes away the variety and enjoyment a little, I think.
     
  47. Timmiej93

    Timmiej93 Member

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    Christ, what is wrong with you people... Are any of you survey experts? As you can see in the original post, CF's day job involves doing this kind of research, so he's more than qualified to run this survey. What does it matter he isn't an expert on trains, if the technical details of a train aren't the subject of the survey?

    Also, why are you so bummed you probably won't be selected for the initial survey? Have you never heard of selecting the proper audience for a survey? If you want to know if people who don't play TS are aware of TS' existence, there is absolutely no use in asking people who play the game, obviously.

    I honestly, for the life of me, can't understand what you guys' issue is with either the survey, or CF running it. He's qualified to do so, the survey simply isn't targeted towards TS players, what's the big deal? If you really haven't got anything else to get your knickers in a twist about, I'd say you've got a pretty good life.
     
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  48. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Timmiej93 what a charming post ‘... what is wrong with you people’.

    Firstly some of us might be survey experts. Some might even have professional qualifications in the discipline.You’d be surprised at the huge diversity of skill sets that posters on this board have.

    Perhaps you’re the one that doesn’t get it? DTG can have as many surveys as it wants. It can ask whoever it wants but if they don’t want to include people on this board then why make a posting here? Go back and read that first post. It’s anything but clear and the statement that ‘anyone is free to apply’ really wasn’t subsequently a good idea.

    You also discount that many posters here think that DTG doesn’t really listen to their input or communicate well. It’s not unnatural, given that many people in here feel part of the community, that DTG is listening to other people, but not them, creates some noise.

    It’s a forum. Let people have their say. And moderate the language.
     
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  49. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    The whole forum has been a secret survey since day one and the analysis is in:

    1) Old content stays broken
    2) New content arrives broken
    3) New content becomes old content
    4) Editor something something.
    5) Communication from DFG sucks.

    Unfortunately, that survey resulted in very little actionable intel- so now for something completely different...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  50. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Number 1 is not true.
     
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