Train Sim World - Roadmap Update 07/09/2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Sep 7, 2021.

  1. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Since DTG seem to be able and wiling to do route extensions now, I hope they'll do the Sheerness Branch (not that they will though).
    The Train Simulator version of Sherman Hill included it in a fictional story where UP brought it back into use (I believe to cover the lack of available locomotives). It was strange and unrealistic, but the GTEL was done brilliantly and I was glad they did it.
     
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  2. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Now that route extensions are possible, I hope the Long Island Railroad preserved route gets extended from Hicksville to atleast Ronkonkoma, Oyster Bay, and the full Port Washington Branch included with some other branches and DLC.
     
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  3. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They aren't doing extensions.
     
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  4. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    But they COULD do extensions. This just goes to show it's not a technical limitation.

    I know it's not happening, but It's just frustrating because there are so many routes where an extension would make them so much better.
     
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  5. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Member

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    Just to clarify, adding the Meißen branch isn't a route extension in the way you're thinking, it's simply making a route bigger, a subtle but important difference.

    A route extension would be an addional piece of paid for DLC that is dependent on ownership of the route it extends. Currently the tech to incorporate this into the game doesn't exist, I assume because of the diminishing returns for this sort of DLC (due to the market being a subset of the use who have bought the original route) and the complexities of supporting multiple timetables. An good example of this would be selling an extension of GWR all the way to Redding.

    Making a route bigger, as they have done here, is simply a patch that increases the size of the route for everyone that does / will own the route. The only extra revenue that DTG would get for this additional work is from more people deciding to buy the route as it now includes more. Obviously they could choose to due this with any route but I think this is a special case as the route is so new and they're trying to honour the original vision given the negative community feedback.

    Personally I'm a big fan of Route Extensions and think they would be a great addition to the game but the tech for these still don't exist. I also wouldn't expect other routes being made bigger either as they almost certainly wouldn't make their money back for DGT.
     
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  6. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Related to the subject, I think route extensions should be the theme for next year’s big release. Then make a legacy bundle for people who don’t already own the dependency routes so they can get those for a very favourable price (like 80% off each).

    Especially the express high speed content in TSW needs to be extended. Most of it feels like an appetizer for something you cannot have - a proper sense of journey. At some point TSW has to embrace it.
     
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  7. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    This is NOT a route extension in the typical way. No matter how often you say this, it's still a wrong way to look at it. Please rewatch the latest roadmap stream where Matt eplained this topic very well.
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    All right, back to basics here: there is no technical reason why DTG could not do route extensions. It is possible to add more track to an existing route, as the Meissen branch shows. However, DTG are NOT going to do them. Stated firmly, many times. This is a business matter, not technical: as they learned with TS, mini-routes which are not standalone and which can only be bought by people who already own another DLC simply do not sell in sufficient numbers to make them commercially viable. There's no money in it.

    On the other side of the coin we have route mergers: connecting up two freestanding routes. This OTOH is something DTG would like to do, in the indefinite future, but there are major technical issues to overcome before that becomes possible.
     
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  9. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Well-Known Member

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    But it always has been possible to add more track to an existing route. DTG can update any route they want with extra track. This is because they are editing the routes .pak file. When it comes to route extensions, that'd be an additional DLC that'd come with an additional .pak. DTG have expressly stated they will not sell route DLC for a route DLC, only loco DLC for a route DLC. So if they wanted to do the alternative here and do route merges, I'm just taking a guess here, but the issues would be firstly getting the various tracks to merge together nicely, and for applicable assets not to duplicate. Then it'd be getting a working timetable that works across both routes. There could also be various performance issues too due to the route suddenly expanding in size. Then you'd have a case of how would the new merged route be handled by the various aspects of the UI, and what'd need to happen with the scenario planner to make it work properly. That's a lot of issues you have to deal with, and I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of. So yes, while they are are adding the Meissen branch to Riesa - Dresden, that's because it's all contained in the one DLC. A route extension/merge is far, far different and much more complicated than just adding the Meissen branch. Hope this clears it up.

    TL;DR: A route extension/merger is not the same as adding the Meissen branch and is far more complicated.
     
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  10. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    'Making a route bigger' and 'route extensions' mean literally the same thing.
     
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  11. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    To be fair, people moaned at the branch being taken away and now look, maybe if we all moan for longer routes and extensions, they'll do it
     
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  12. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    But it causes all sorts of issues if the bit you're extending already has theoretical use in your timetable. In GWE for example, loads of the services you drive to Reading would continue on if there were additional track. So if they extend to one of those destinations, what happens to your completion of the previously unfinished service? Do you lose your medal because you haven't driven the whole way? I suspect most people wouldn't have an appetite for repeating them all again just for an extra few miles on the end anyway so where's the value in doing it?

    If they were ever going to extend, I'd envisage them only adding additional track that was ununsed by the existing trains. The example I always give would be something like my Birmingham-Bromsgrove suggestion, where the initial route would have the EMU services as far as Bromsgrove and Redditch, then an additional DMU DLC could travel past Bromsgrove (where the overhead wires end) to another end-point at Worcester or beyond. The DMU DLCs would add whole new services to the route which wouldn't and couldn't be run by the EMUs.
     
  13. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Member

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    In that in both cases the route ends up bigger yes, but the difference is one is chargeable and one is not.
     
  14. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    The new branch is by definition an extension. It's a new part of the route that EXTENDS on from the main route. Yes it's an update to the route and not so much an "add on" or "expansion pack", but it IS an extension.
     
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  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Why is everyone desperately trying to classify what‘s happening? No matter which label you put on it, it‘s not what is commonly meant by route extension. It‘s bringing back stuff that was planned to come from the beginning - simple as that.
     
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  16. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and the problem is the old routes were not designed around potential extensions. Here is pretty simple, the services have been designed to incorporate the branch from the ground up, the initial timetable has been designed to make the integration of the extended services as seamless as possible. This is not so with older routes.

    For older routes, the entire timetable will need reworking, missions will have to be remade, AI pathing will have to change, including spawn points. It's not simply a case of adding some extra track and dropping in new services, all of this has to be integrated with the existing route, which means going over much of the route again.

    For an add-on that will not sell as well as a standalone route, the amount of effort it would take vs the actual return on said effort is in most cases probably not worth it.

    In terms of route merging the same issues apply, but at least in that scenario you have all the in-game assets and the routes themselves already built.
     
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  17. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I won't touch it with a barge pole unless there are mods for it. I said the same about the Diesels Legend pack. It makes you think that if they took a bit longer doing the route they could do it right in the first place and get more sales instead of rushing it to get it out.

    There is a solution to this, give the players the tools to extend their own routes and everyone will be happy BUT we know DTG will not be going down this route.

    You think there is only a 'few miles' missing from the GWE? GWE goes from Paddington into South Wales and could be the greatest route ever if only they could do it justice. As it is we have less than a third of the route imo a wasted opportunity.

    Any route extension we would need reworked timetables but they have the original one as a basis. AI pathing will need to be extended ETC this is not impossible at all if the route has the potential of selling well. If DTG are that nervous they could do a poll beforehand to get an idea of numbers but I doubt they would do that. If DTG can do Rush Hour and re-write the older routes then an extension with all the timetable adjustments should be too much trouble, Modders for TS have been doing it for years.

    If you take the GWE as an example, imo Just for arguments sake say DTG couldn't do it, then there is nothing stopping them doing another separate GWE route set in another ERA, perhaps this time either with full Electric or completely without. There are many ways to 'skin a cat' as they say.
     
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  18. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    I think maybe could be bit earlier than that maybe in next few months or December. But Spring could still be good chance if there's delays /extra time to work on the route.
     
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  19. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    Sherman Hill and Horseshoe Curve! I want Sherman to include the UP SW10 rebuild and maybe a GP60 as well as the SD70ACe. A C44-9W, SD40-2, C45AH (UP ET44AC), and SD70AH-T4 could be added later as DLC. The GP38-2 and AC4400CW from Cane Creek and the Peninsula Corridor GP38-2 could also be used on Sherman Hill. Plus, when steam locos are added, we need UP #844 and #4014, as well as UP #3985. Also, the E9 A-B-As UP has for excursions and the DDA40X #6936 should be added later on as DLCs.
    The HSC needs to be set in the PRR or Conrail eras. For the PRR, an Alco RS3, FM H-24-66, Baldwin Sharknose and/or Centipede, and a GP7/9 should be included or added later as DLC. A PRR K4, M1a/b, H10, T1 Duplex, J1, and/or S1 Turbine could be used on HSC in the steam era. The Conrail version needs an SD80MAC, SD45-2, C40-8W, C39-8, and/or a GP38-2 or GP40.
    I'd also like to suggest the NS SD70ACU, SD70M-2, and ET44AC, as well as a GP60 or GP38-2. Plus, the ES44AC is included, so that's fantastic. Perhaps we could see and ES44AC, ES44DC, or ES40DC. The SD40-2 should come with the Admiral Cab or be a high nose version. That would add some variation to the game. Plus, the ES44AC could be reskinned into a UP version for Sherman Hill, as well as the SD40-2 from Sand Patch. The ES44AC could also be reskinned into a CSX version for Sand Patch Grade.
     
  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, because DTG is likely to do 20 new locos in six months....
     
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  21. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Really happy about the surprise 2 new US routes!

    - UP Sherman Hill + the SD70ACE: For this kind of US modern locomotives this one is very important.
    It was requested by me from last year, but also for several other members!
    Nice to have another UP route also.
    I believe and hope also GE AC44W locomotives be included too.

    - Horseshoe Curve: Another traditional route in the USA.
    But this implies NS will be added to TSW2! Great news!
    Furthermore we will have the most modern GE ES44AC! Also requested. Great news 2
    Amtrak trains also runs on Horseshoe curve... hope be there too!

    Thanks DTG about it!
     
  22. franco0707

    franco0707 New Member

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    • [Improvement] Scenario Planner 2.0
    • [Improvement] Livery Designer 2.0
    I've been looking this up on Google and the forums to understand what both of these mean as a 2.0 version. Is this something already implemented in the game, or are we getting a new livery designer and scenario planner in the future? Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I just can't seem to find any information on it.
     
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  23. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Here's hoping for xmas
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    DTG are in the talking/planning stage of putting together major upgrades to those routines. Somewhere there are threads asking for player input on what features they want/issues they want fixed.
     
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  25. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Given that this has been on the roadmap since april and is actively being worked on, I would say this year
     
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  26. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The primary aspiration for these new tools is to allow some kind of sharing via Dovetail Live. However, there is little known yet about what or how any of the new features will be implemented since it's all very much in planning at the moment.

    Cheers
     
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  27. franco0707

    franco0707 New Member

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    Thank you.
     
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  28. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Very nice roadmap. With the Meißen branch we will get one of the most scenic towns in Saxony. And we will get 2 iconic northamerican freight routes with 2 modern mainline locos and Norfork Southern as an additional railroad operator. Hopefully that locos will get PTC. And it would be perfect if it would be implemented in the current northamerican freight locos.
     
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  29. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    HSC needs a Genesis P42DC for passenger trains and maybe the NS Heritage units, especially the PRR and Conrail ES44ACs. UP SH needs the UP Heritage SD70ACes and the excursion train.
     
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  30. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully next routes: (only my thoughts)
    Hamburg - Hannover
    WCML south
     
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  31. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    I am awaiting the announcement of future European routes. I really hope that this will happen today!

    Let DTG make my wishes come true !!!!
    I'd like to serve a full service on the Chatham Main line. There are already Chatham and Gillingham, soon there will be London Victoria, it remains to connect them by route. It will be great.

    And the German route Cologne-Dusseldorf-Duisburg !!! It must happen sometime.

    And something new, Austria or Belgium with the Netherlands! But what if!!!
     
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  32. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    what do we think is on the roadmap today?

    I am hoping for either ECML, WCML, CML, or the London Underground Met Line
     
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  33. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Dont get your hopes up, they added a few last time so probably not his time i thinks
     
  34. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    For UK stuff, Probably the upcoming 1938 tube stock, the Brighton Mainline, and Penzance-St Austell. The 313 will be where its been for over a year now.
     
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  35. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’m hoping some new UK/German/Other Country routes will be announced, but if not, that’s ok for now. Hopefully some insight as to when the next patch is coming and whether Boston/Dresden fixes will be included. Would also like to know when the next preserved route stuff is being released and what Adam’s team have done to improve Peninsula Corridor.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Still holding my breath for an Austrian route. DTG needs to add another country, and Austria/OBB is similar enough to Germany (for example, PZB is identical), that it wouldn't be as huge a job as some other countries.

    Besides, I like mountains.
     
  37. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  38. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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  39. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Didnt see that!
     

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