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Train Sim World Studio Update – Your Questions Answered

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. TrainSim-James

    TrainSim-James Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Last month when we caught up with Matt we found out more about the upcoming Train Sim World Editor Tools. We asked you to share any specific questions you had with us to address and we received lots of questions. So, this month, I would like to focus on giving you the answers!

    READ MORE
     
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  2. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    A very interesting read. Thanks for sharing this James. :)
     
  3. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I hope it’s getting close to getting this to us! :) Good read!
     
  4. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    What about making routes that extend existing routes? Is that possible or would it require editing the existing route instead, thus falling under the same restrictions? And if so, does that mean future DLCs can't extend existing routes? (I'm sure you prioritise new routes, though, as you should)
     
  5. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    As i understand it, you can extend a route without a problem as long as you have the uncooked source.. What you won't get for sold DLC without a special agreement with the original creator. Another thing is publishing the extension.. i think that will not work, you would have to publish the extension as new full route.
     
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Why don't the uncooked routes or assets get made available (for additional cost where applicable) which would then allow creators to use such things much more easily. Even if it's done outside of the usual Steam channels i'm sure there would be a trade in pre-constructed uncooked items, thinking UKTS type depository...
     
  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Luke said they are trying to make it possible to edit existing routes.
     
  8. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Excellent read looking forward to the launch of the editor.
     
  9. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think not being able to edit/expand on existing routes would be a step back. Especially when you have a route like the NEC: NY, which I still consider more of a demo, than an actual route, based on the start/end points, should be able to be expanded on, especially since that would be the most complex part of the route to recreate, should one actually want to build the entire length of the NEC in TSW.
     
  10. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair it certainly does sound as if DTG would like to give us the ability to do that, at least to some extent. That said, there have certainly been other cases where DTG have said something similar and nothing seems to have happened e.g. flashing yellows on GWE where apparently the code is there but just doesn't activate for unknown reasons. I'm convinced it was only the sustained moaning and whinging that eventually persuaded DTG to start doing something about the engine simulations.
     
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  11. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    As someone who has been previously annoyed with DTG for being silent about the editor or anything really "new" for TSW, this is a refreshingly open and honest series, and has been fairly timely. Keep up the great work!

    Question regarding the editor/workflow: Upon creating a new route, do you try to create the landscape first in the basic UE4 editor, or do you find it easier to lay down track in the DTG track editor, then add in landscape later? Also, with the provisions for adding in world data (yay!), is there a plan or any potential feasibility for adding in terrain data, so that mountain ranges don't have to be added in by hand?
     
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  12. rftech

    rftech New Member

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    Sounds really good to me,especially ability to use open street maps optionally because Google earth is becoming very problematical for many users(I wish DTG would make Open street Maps an optional replacement for Google earth in TS2019).
    Looking forward to any tutorials,good job DTG.
     
  13. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

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    UE4 will be a challenge to work with!
     
  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They probably import terrain data.
     
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  15. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

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  16. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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  17. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I think its safe to say that whatever you can do in normal unreal you can do in TSW as well. They do mention Speed Tree and Simplygon specifically, but there are all kinds of other utilities I bet you could use. Including landscape stuff like that. So while some people are going to be naysayers considering UE4 to be all terrible and junky because you can't edit someone else's stuff (which, to be fair, is probably for the best when it comes to protecting intellectual property) they fail to consider that the sky is really the limit with UE4.

    I bet you could go crazy and make something like a bus you can drive/ride, even though the game is intended for trains. As such, my greatest fear right now is that people won't think outside the box, and will limit their creativity to what they remember from TS2019's editor, instead of doing some actual new stuff.
     
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  18. Juxen

    Juxen Active Member

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    After playing with UE4 and finding a built-in First Person Shooter function (and shooting beach balls around), it's entirely possible to have a messed-up version of Capture the Flag involving a flag and a 50-mile route. I keep forgetting how robust UE4 is.
     
  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    If multiplayer ever comes in, you could play hide and seek. Especially in RSN because of all the hiding places.
     
  20. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    As much as that is totally not intended, it would work! So yeah...I do want to see what new features and modes creators will think of...
     
  21. GibbseyNZ

    GibbseyNZ New Member

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    One idea I had thought is once we have multiplayer is a shunting focused route where 1 person drives the loco and the other person walks around/rides the loco to switch points and couple/uncouple wagons. Couple possibly even have a signalman/dispatcher option where you act as a signal box operator to control trains through a section of track or station.
     
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  22. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks DTG for giving us an update, it is really appreciated.

    I can't wait to go to the workshop and download some scenarios for TSW!
     
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  23. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

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    Can't wait is a popular quote in every gaming community by the way. :)
     
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  24. tbarshina

    tbarshina Member

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    Q:is this editor going to be as easy and simple as the other editor? (TS2020)
     
  25. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    Its the full UE4 editor with some custom tools for TSW. So it depends how well you get along with that editor.
     
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  26. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well first it depends on whether we're actually going to get that ominous editor. Which, at this point in time, I highly doubt.
     
  27. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Probably best not to resurrect year-old threads. There's enough whinging about the editor, or lack thereof, in the new ones!
     
  28. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Apparently not, since we're still not getting any word on what's holding it back. If DTG's strategy is keeping silent about it and just wait until people forgot it was ever mentioned, it's our responsibility as a playerbase not to let that come anywhere near fruition. And as of now, we're doing a fairly good job, I'd say.
     
  29. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, certainly seems to have had a brilliant effect on getting the editor released so far... :D
     
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  30. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't talking about releasing it. A word about whether it has or has not been canceled (and if it has, why) would be good enough for a start.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This would just continue the endless (non)debate cycle
     
  32. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    That's the idea.
     
  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Why would anyone want an endless debate about something that isn't happening? Surely you've got better things to do?
     
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  34. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    To make it happen. By use of force, sotospeak.
    And if not that, then at least going on DTG's nerves as long as they come out and say, we've deceided not to follow through with the editor plans, for reasons this, this and this.

    Finding out whether it makes sense to keep the hopes up. I can't help it, sometimes I'm an optimist. And also not the kind of person who backs down if they REALLY want something to happen. Even less if it's in more or less everybody's best interest.
     
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  35. ferrolun

    ferrolun New Member

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    This is very important.

    But why don't they talk !!!
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like bullying tactics to me...
     
  37. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Not really. What else than asking, hey folks, what's with the editor actually, are we really doing? It's not that we (or, me at least) won't accept a "you ain't getting any" or a "it will take much longer that we thought" as an answer, as long as there are good reasons to back that up.

    We were shown a fairly nicely working version on that stream back then after all, so what good reason for 101% silence on the topic could there possibly be?
    I've said this as a compliment regarding Matt's recent and very welcome activity on the forums: Knowledge is the best medicine for baseless speculations.
    In the case of the editor however, it's the opposite of a compliment. All he had to say about that, is there's no news. Which sounds dubious almost one whole year after the fact, to put it like that. He sounded so excited and optimistic in the stream.. and then, nothing.
     
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  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It does seem strange every time Matt answers a question about the editor, it’s the same old “I have no news on it” which has been like a broken record for almost a year.

    The fact that they did a live stream of the editor and a studio update to absolutely nothing is pretty concerning. It was said that the editor will be available in the new year. Though it is looking increasingly unlikely that it’ll be released before Christmas unfortunately.
     
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  39. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Member

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    I think the last thing Matt saying about the Editor was in a video in may this year..
    Then they have decided to be silent. Or matt say I have no news on it
    Incredibly strange. Could it be that they give us a Christmas present.....Dtg is Santa Claus.
    Or have they stopped developing it. But then they must tell us that they did. they have so much to lose not to tell the truth.
    Because we will be chatting on them for many years ahead. Where is the Editor DTG
     
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  40. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Well-Known Member

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    no editor = no TSW future
     
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  41. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It's effectively confirmed now that there will be no Editor. DTG, in their annual report, have officially stated they left the Flight Sim market because they didn't control all of the IP and they will now focus Train Simulation where they do control all of the IP. If they release a public Editor for TSW which allows third parties to create content, DTG will no longer control all of the IP associated with TSW and this would be contrary to their stated business plan.

    Edit: Pages 4/5 in the 'Full accounts made up to 31 March 2019' PDF: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06751125/filing-history
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  42. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Could you post a link to that report by chance?
     
  43. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Just edited the post above to include it for you!
     
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  44. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The link seems broken though. "Expired, access denied." I'll look into in another time.
     
  45. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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  46. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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  47. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

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    I think you're misreading that.

    In the case of the Flight simulation products (FSX and FSW) Dovetail Games were using technology which was created by and is still owned by Microsoft. Microsoft gave DTG a license to use their technology and IP to build their products. But it was still Microsoft's IP and not that of DTG, which meant that DTG probably had to pay royalties to Microsoft as well as adhere to their terms.

    In the case of Trains and Fishing, Dovetail are the sole creators of the game and they fully own the IP to the game. This give more certainty as there's no chance of a contract not getting renewed, and it reduces the amount of fees they have to pay (UE4 does come with a licensing fee).

    Even when 3rd parties start releasing content for TSW, Dovetail Games still fully own the IP to Train Sim World. In addition, they can theoretically demand 3rd party creators to release any payware through DTG channels.
     
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  48. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I might agree if it wasn't for what we know about DTG's attitude towards third party developers in the Flight Sim market, where their business plan inolved subverting the third party developers and forcing all development to occur in conjuction with DTG. It didn't work in that market because DTG didn't control all the IP and thus lacked suffient leverage. A public Editor is surrendering leverage.
     
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  49. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

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    I can sort-of understand that Dovetail would prefer all 3rd party development and releases to go via them... after all, they are the developers of the game. If you're using their platform to make money of your own, I would find it quite reasonable that DTG get a slice of the revenue pie.

    But if that were true, don't you think that DTG would have removed the editing capabilities from the Train Simulator 20xx game ages ago? They haven't though, the TS1 editor is available to everyone. For free. There are plenty of 3rd party developers who build content on top of the TS1 platform and release it independently, and thus DTG never see a penny from this. (There's also a considerable number of 3rd party content released via DTG, of course.)

    I don't see why they would want to handle the availability of the editor differently with TSW. It only makes the game accessible to more people. I can see them putting in a clause that any payware content would have to be released through them though, so they can take a cut.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  50. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    First link you posted worked for me no problem and it was a interesting to read. But I could not see anywhere in the document where the editor is not coming out for TSW.
     
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