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Train Simulator 2021 And Beyond

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wivenswold, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    With the recent TSW2 Editor news and the requests for TS issues in this here thread, I'm getting the feeling that we may see a significant core update, game play improvements and new features that will further extend the life span of this venerable PC simulator.

    I see this along the lines of "Fifa" v "Football Manager", TSW2 for action, TS for those who like details to be spot on and have a little tinker around with things. The Editor issue has perhaps widened the gap and given TS a brighter medium-term future.

    I've been wrong before though.
     
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  2. benhhng

    benhhng Member

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  3. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice to see more improvements than just the annual new logo and cosmetic changes to the menu screens.

    I don't think TS is going anywhere but after the recent announcement for TSW, I'm not assuming anything.

    One thing it has taught me as far as DTG are concerned is "Aim low and avoid disappointment. Anything else is a bonus."
     
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  4. SJA

    SJA Member

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    It was my understanding that there were two distinct teams working on each simulator (not sure if any changes are planned, or if that is for content design and doesn't include core engine tweaks, as content and core engineering are different beasts).

    So I hope that is still the case. As you say, they occupy slightly different spaces in the simming world, with TSW being graphically good, easy to run and providing console users with a stable simulator, and TS1 providing flexibility in operations, longer routes, and with an army of third-party developers (any possibly those in-house) willing to push the sim beyond what it does now, certainly with a core update.
     
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't work on "feelings" so until I see anything I am not counting on anything
     
  6. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Member

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    I agree that prospects look better for TS1 improvements than they did; however, if TSW2 does fix the development blockages on that title then TS1 may only get a couple of years more development.

    I hope DTG are working on something to build on 64 bit. It seems a bit of a waste otherwise.
     
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  7. SJA

    SJA Member

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    Does anyone know what sort of a deal DTG get from commercial third-party add-ons? Licensing and legalese not being my strong suit, I just guessed that you'd have to pay DTG a certain amount for making money by extending their product.
     
  8. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Only DTG and the 3rd party know how much commission they get from sales and I'm sure they are not telling anyone else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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  9. SJA

    SJA Member

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    Well, yeah. I was pondering out loud I suppose, about how worthwhile further upgrades to TS1 will be for them. Hopefully very worthwhile.
     
  10. LTEcactus

    LTEcactus Member

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    Very unlikely to happen, as there is only 1 employee working on TSxx atm. That's according to a source on another forum...
     
  11. Ighten

    Ighten Member

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    I think theirs as much chance of anything changing re the core engine as there is of (insert appropriate adynaton) -- Zero..
     
  12. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    The problem with trying to make big changes to TS is doing it without breaking backwards compatibility with the vast amount of DLC available for it- the very thing that keeps it going. That said the 64 bit upgrade was a pretty big deal and appears to have caused few problems.
    Well I've already mentioned the 64 bit upgrade which was quite the bolt from the blue a couple of years ago and the filters and FOV slider were nice touches. Again the trick is judging how much can be done without breaking it.
     
  13. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  14. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    this convid-19 has hit the world and work market in big way witch is bad. i see TS2021 UI and route re-release upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  15. RGoo

    RGoo Member

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    I agree but you should probably use a spell checker
     
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  16. benhhng

    benhhng Member

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    So what bug is beloved and changeable by everyone?
     
  17. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Graphics setting so you don't complaint to people that the signals are disappearing when they are not
    Scenery Density should be set on MAX then coaches and other things would not disappear
     
  18. fabdiva

    fabdiva Active Member

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    My understanding is you can self publish addons without royalties. If you want the product sold through Steam then DTG and Valve will take a cut, but in return will help with obtaining licensed branding (where possible) and will supply customer support for the life of the product. Other platforms like ATS, Chris Trains, Trainsim DE etc are available. All have their pros and cons.

    Exact amounts are unlikely to be made public but I have heard a typical 30/30/40 revenue split (Valve/DTG/Dev) for Steam content
     
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  19. benhhng

    benhhng Member

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    Then how to stop the rain in underground station?
     
  20. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You can not - Even in TSW the rain comes thru the roof in an underground station
    So either put up with it or just change the Weather in the Scenario so it does not rain
     
  21. MattChaffe10

    MattChaffe10 New Member

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    If anything, maybe a UI update would be nice for TS2021. We've had the same UI forever now and an updated one might help keep the game more appealing to new and current players. Maybe more visual settings, such as adjusting saturation, hue, shadows, highlights, etc. could be a nice addition, especially since the last update brought us limited visual settings.

    Otherwise, I don't think it needs a huge update. I think it's more important that the sim stays active and isn't shut down solely so DTG can focus on TSW2.
     
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  22. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I doubt whether DTG would drop TS for TSW. I'm pretty sure TS is still financing TSW development.
     
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  23. benhhng

    benhhng Member

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    So either put up with it or just change the Weather in the Scenario so it does not rain[/QUOTE]In this minute you maybe right to avoid the rain. But if there is a newer version of TS or TSW, I'd like to suggest the structure to become solid.
     
  24. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Active Member

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    In this minute you maybe right to avoid the rain. But if there is a newer version of TS or TSW, I'd like to suggest the structure to become solid.[/QUOTE]
    There is actually a way to fix this issue in TS. You will need to edit the route though, so I suggest keeping a backup copy to avoid having to re-install the DLC.

    Simply raise the terrain so that it's above the ceiling of the underground portion.Or simply keep using sunny weather.
     
  25. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    You'd be surprised how much rain does get into the London Underground.
     
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  26. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing as flood water as opposed to raindrops on the windscreen though. :cool:
     
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  27. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that you will find that it is now (already) the other way around.

    The official line is that they (TS1 and TSW) are independent self-financing entities, but I suspect that the TSW sales (and cross-platform fish sales) actually disproportionately contribute to the debt repayments, Chatham Office rent, energy, salaries, McDonalds happy meals, etc.
     
  28. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    "Official lines" tend to reflect the message the company/government wants to get across in the hope that it will be accepted because it's "Official".

    As for self-financing entities, companies split divisions TS/TSW into autonomous entities to keep tabs on their finances for internal and external accounting scrutiny. But I'm pretty sure that income from the major revenue source is invested in new product development.

    Whether TSW is standing on it's own financial feet is moot. Sales figures in terms of volume, ie units sold, TS versus TSW, are not a clear indication, it's the profit margin of each entity that is literally the bottom line.

    This is all basic business stuff. I could be wrong in suggesting that TS is supporting the development of TSW. Unless we could view internal accounts we'll never know.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There are many places on the subsurface lines where there is open space above the lines or stations, particularly at the end of stations. Remember the underground was originally a steam railway and they needed places to vent, many of which are still not overbuilt, and that's the stations in London zone 1. Outside of the centre loads of lines are above ground so open to the elements
     
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  30. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny New Member

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    Not true - there is more than one person working on TSXX :) (so your source is a bit wrong ;) )
     
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  31. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    One and a half?
     
  32. samsonbo

    samsonbo Member

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    Anyone have any guesses as to which routes will be included with TS 2021?
     
  33. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough, many of the underground sections are protected by flood gates:



    I seem to recall there being modern vertical doors/shutters at a few cut and cover stations as well, like Embankment (District). And in the past the Northern and Bakerloo Lines at Embankment both had their tunnel portals temporarily sealed off with concrete in 1938 in the pre-war panic.


    But I have no idea if DTG will do a core update for TS1.... LOL. It would be popular though, if they did a working update.
     
  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see something done about the menus. They look messy frankly, and it is easy to miss the route you want when scrolling down with a lot of routes installed.

    I do hope they continue some development of it, I like TSW but until it has a lot more routes and stock, plus the ability to create your own scenarios at least, for me it will play second fiddle to TS1.

    If there is to be a TS2021, I wonder if they will surprise us with a new British route or supply the Fife Circle with it.

    They have been very open and talkative about TSW/TSW2 in recent weeks, it would be good if they could make the same effort with TS1 and tell us what they plan to do next, if anything and what development of it we might see.
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If what they did last year repeats this year they'll get the TSW update out and then start on TSx, which updated around October I think.
     
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  36. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Someone asked Matt in one of the DTG streams a couple of days ago if there's a TS2021planned. Want to hazard a guess at his reply?

    It was the return of the infamous, "No news on ....".
    I now think it's a habitual response from him as it sounds less abrupt than a straight no.

    Hopefully, when the hype of TSW 2 has done it's time, we may hear something.
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That just means there's nothing they can say yet, if they said yes it would open the floodgates to what, when, how much etc etc and they get enough of that anyway
     
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  38. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't expecting a yes. I was purely commenting that the infamous phrase from predominantly the TSW editor questions had returned and in my opinion it's a habitual response.
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Well really there should only EVER be two responses to such a question. Yes we have full details to disclose or no we have no details to disclose.
    Anything else just leads the floodgates of idiocy to open as seen many many times on these forums.
    If they'd have said three years ago that the editor wasn't going to be released (and it wasn't ever near release) then they might have lost some sales, but they would at least have some reputation left (maybe)
     
  40. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I thnk it is reasonable for a software company to keep its cards close to its chest about forthcoming releases. Although I don't see anything controversial in confirming that a TS2021 package is planned for later in the year, and then not giving full details on content.

    But given what happened with the Editor, and "no news" on it inevitably meaning "there is no Editor", it might now be a good idea to avoid that particular "no news" phrase, as it now has been given a distinctly negative meaning, which is "no, we are not doing that".

    I would also add that Matt and Sam do put themselves in the hotseat for questions in a live programme, six times per week for an hour or more, which is fairly intense.... They could prep themselves with some Q&A and briefing beforehand, but they are not politicians.... so I think it is fair to give them a break on detailed scrutiny in these streams/broadcasts.

    However, I do undestand the frustration.
     
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  41. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    When any loco or route is released from DTG they normally announce it about two weeks before release.
    And they have never in the last 8 years I have been playing the game announced the years release more than three weeks out.
     
  42. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously made an exception for TSW 2 for this year, that was 8 weeks in advance.
     
  43. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 is a New Game
    Not an update to an old game
     
  44. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    That's a matter of opinion!
     
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  45. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Technically, it's a new game, but is an updated version of the existing game that is not compatible with the new game. However, you are right in that because it's a new game, they are making the exception announcing it super early to get people wishlisting it.
     
  46. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 isn’t a new game.

    The existing DLC could be compatible with the update because they’ve demonstrated it works with “Sand Patch Grade 2 - The Revenge”, supposedly the least efficient resource hog of all DLC releases thus far. For whatever reason they’ve chosen not to do the same thing with the rest of the content we’ve all paid money for. Place your bets as to why...

    My guess - the work involved in making it all compatible doesn’t pay the bills which is why I think they’ve walked away from everything already made. It also means none of the pesky bugs/missing features/problems ever need to be addressed. Neat huh?

    TSW2 aside, I really hope DTG have something up their sleeve regarding TS1. Where I’m seriously un-impressed about being asked to stump up to keep playing TSW going forward, I would be willing to pay to see TS1 get a much needed core update. It’s a MUCH better sim, and they’d be nuts to walk away from it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  47. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    There are also many more who produce content for the original TS who would move to the new core of TS2 in a heartbeat. Just Trains, Armstrong Powerhouse among them. It might be a good idea to change the terms so all content has to go through Steam and there is no third-party content selling allowed to make it more user-friendly (I mean, finding a scenario and having to go to three different places for DLC is NOT friendly), not to mention that means DTG at least gets some credit for the original work with all DLC...and try to negotiate with Steam based on the value of all DLC already out to get better terms, as some have complained they don't use Steam because they only get less than half of whatever is charged in the end...and in the end it only hurts the user experience...maybe DTG can upfront some of the creation cost to maintain the higher state of income it currently has on items sold on Steam...
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that in principle as it would be good to be able to install everything in one go after a fresh install for example. But I fear some wouldn't bother producing any more. A couple of providers used to supply via steam but stopped even though they probably had a bigger audience there, there must be a reason for it, although I know not what.
     
  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    I can tell you: money. I have heard from Armstrong Powerhouse in particular (I think I even have an e-mail discussing this) that they can't keep more than 40% of the money made from the sale. Do the math on $40 and that means they only get to keep $16. $12 goes to DTG, $12 goes to Steam. By selling on their own site, they get to keep 100% of the profits. The issue is that sales are not anywhere near as good, most of the time, as they are on Steam. Yes, they exist, but they are infrequent or may only be on a single item, which if you already own it, too bad, try again next time.

    That said, Just Trains has put Western Mainlines on sale this week, $29.99 USD and smaller prices in UK currencies as well. This makes it combined with the Extensions Collection for the route a better deal than the Complete Collection. So biting at the original route is a good idea this week. The conversion is much worse for us in Canada (THANKS PAYPAL!) than it is on Steam, where I might see it for $32.99 instead of the $42 or so that Paypal is inevitably going to want to crank out of me. That means, at this point, I'd be paying for a full route price on Steam, and there isn't even a train included with it. Still something for me to think about.
     
  50. LargeInjector

    LargeInjector Member

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    I hope that TS2020 keeps on being supported for another five years.
     
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