Train Simulator Classic Core Update Feedback - Dx12 Experimental Build

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Apr 27, 2023.

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  1. I love it, my frame rate is much better

    8 vote(s)
    6.1%
  2. It's ok, my frame rate has seen a slight improvement

    7 vote(s)
    5.3%
  3. Meh, not seeing any difference at all

    19 vote(s)
    14.5%
  4. Poor, frame rate is slightly less

    39 vote(s)
    29.8%
  5. Terrible, frame rate is really bad

    58 vote(s)
    44.3%
  1. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Hi Everyone
    Here you can put any feedback you have with the DX12 Experimental Version of TSC, which will release on 28th April.

    This is an Experimental build. It's not fully optimised yet, and we're hoping with your feedback we can help bring it up to the performance levels you'd come to expect.

    If you are seeing it impact your enjoyment, then please continue to play on 64-bit (we've had some good feedback thus far on improving performance in certain places).

    Thanks for letting us know your experiences so far - we'll be addressing the initial feedback to yesterday's Core update first (more info here: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live...2.1744668906.1682323785-1070908299.1663312892), but will be keeping an eye on this thread too, so we can use your experiences to improve it for the next core update planned.

    If you could also Add your PC Specs on to the feedback, would be great.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2023
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  2. HasanMulla

    HasanMulla Member

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    upload_2023-4-28_16-15-1.png

    I seem to be getting this error. All of the files are there, verifying my game files have done nothing.

    UPDATE: Deleting D3D9.dll fixes the problem
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  3. dolanbaker

    dolanbaker Active Member

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    Just trying it now, first impressions are good graphics, but I have lost the fps counter on screen.
    Shift-tab no longer works.

    I needed to run an update from steam manually first as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
  4. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    Just gave it a quick test, and I notice a huge drop in framerate. From 80-100 down to 30-50 on the route I've tested today. Other than that no errors so far.
     
  5. jhs#1408

    jhs#1408 Active Member

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    started without trouble, no framerate benefits though. but it runs anyway
     
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  6. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    I tested a scenario at Piccadilly (JT Hope Valley) and got a constant 14 FPS in DX12 mode and between 24-30 in normal 64-bit mode. After leaving the station and driving for a while I get between 40-50 FPS in 64-bit and 18 FPS in DX12.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  7. Vaffelen

    Vaffelen Well-Known Member

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    The problem I seem to have is that the game is only using 30-35% of my GPU in DX12 mode, whereas with normal 64-bit it will utilize 60-90%. So I end up having low FPS with DX12.
     
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  8. mikel#2931

    mikel#2931 New Member

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    Same 15 fps, on a scenario where I see 40 - 50 fps using the normal 64 bit version
     
  9. Andy L

    Andy L Member

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    In all cases so far I'm seeing lower frame rates with DX12 compared to 64-bit, in some cases much lower. For example:
    1. Portsmouth Direct Career Scenario [444] 01. 1P17 - With DX12 20 fps With 64-bit 24 fps
    2. Cross City Career Scenario 2 [323] Morning Rush Hour - With DX12 22 fps With 64-bit 37 fps
    3. Cross City Career Scenario 3 [323] Up & Down to the Valley - 14 fps with DX12 With 64-bit 44 fps
    In all cases those are the frame rates I see using the in game fps display once the scenario has fully loaded and before I touch any controls.
    More examples by request.
     
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  10. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

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    Same here, only 30-40% of the GPU is used.
     
  11. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    What is going on at DTG? So many problems with updates to TSC and TSW3! In TSC it loads ok, but searching for a different route or loco freezes everything. I now know why players are tearing their hair out or what we have left.

    DTG should give a huge discount as compensation to owners for all this hassle and frustration both games are causing at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  12. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    I have MSI afterburner on Nvidia and it tells me that I am on dx9 and not on dx12!
    In addition, a very significant drop in fps of around 60%!!!
    In short, it's not very very good at all...

    Are interns doing the maj at your place, or are they?
     
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  13. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    DX12 is as listed on the splash - Experimental. If it doesn't work it'll be shelved.

    Other issues reported with the TSC update are mostly down to 3rd party content (mostly) so nothings going on at DTG outside of things already announced...
     
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  14. tizzer747

    tizzer747 New Member

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    So far so good. Not a single problem loading up the sim with DX12. FPS is a lower than usual in built up areas, I'm averaging around 30-40fps on WCML Over-Shap with around 90% GPU usage and 22-25% CPU usage. Framerate isn't as stable as it is in 64-Bit mode though. The sim seems to stutter less in DX12. Have noticed track textures to be a bit funny in DX12, not all the time but its noticeable every now and then. Bare in mind, I do have a quite beefy computer. From what I've heard, other people are having significantly worse performance issues in DX12.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
  15. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    As we've mentioned many times - this is an Experimental build. It's not fully optimised yet, and we're hoping with your feedback we can help bring it up to the performance levels you'd come to expect.

    Thanks for letting us know your experiences so far - we'll be addressing the initial feedback to yesterday's Core update first (more info here: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live...2.1744668906.1682323785-1070908299.1663312892), but will be keeping an eye on this thread too, so we can use your experiences to improve it for the next core update planned.

    [added this to OP too]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  16. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    Personally I reinstalled my vulcan patch and I am very satisfied with this personal update.
    I have more lag, a constant and much higher fps for the rest of the things that don't work I would wait for a patch from the third party editor.

    In short, DTG switch to vulcan, you will be delighted and everyone else too.
     
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  17. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    For me everything is running fine. Went to my normal route for testing, WCML South, but I am seeing a 30% frame drop on average and down into single figures around Euston where normally I'd see 25 - 30fps (All settings maxed out). So consistent with what others are reporting.

    No complaints though. As said it's experimental and I'm glad you are trying new things to keep this old game running.

    PC Specs :
    i9 10th gen
    RTX 3080
    32 GB RAM
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2023
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  18. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Should go without saying, but if you are seeing it impact your enjoyment, then please continue to play on 64-bit (we've had some good feedback thus far on improving performance in certain places).

    This is a kind-of beta (but actually probably before beta at this stage), whilst your feedback is really valuable, please don't feel compelled to play on it 'because we said so'.
     
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  19. cfristul

    cfristul New Member

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    Moving the same, no change. Needs more work to be done. Hope for an update soon
     
  20. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    I can report similar issues as to whats already being reported with DX12 currently causing a drop in frames rather than an increase at places like a loaded Euston or Clapham Junction or Waterloo. It varies from sizeable loss at busy areas (down to about 10fps) to maybe 5fps drop in quiet areas.
     
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  21. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    As said above, MSI afterburner indicates that the game is on DX9 and not on DX12!!?!!
    Are you sure this is the right patch?
    I don't think MSI afterburner is talking nonsense, especially given the degradation of the fps and the lack of use of the CG!
    Can you check please?
     
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  22. cfristul

    cfristul New Member

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    Yeah, same, still saying that it runs on DX9 on MSI
     
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  23. TrainMaster15YT

    TrainMaster15YT New Member

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    running RTX 3080 and 5900x. performance has dropped significantly with DX12. on the up side, the menus are super responsive but im not here for next gen menu gameplay XD
     
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  24. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    here is a screen with msi activated you can see that it is DX9 which is activated and not dx12!
    Note the game version at the bottom in the settings

    Another thing, the xbox controller no longer works with this version!!
     

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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
  25. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    Don't quote me on this but is MSI giving a false positive by reading data from else where in the railworks folder and not the actual exe?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  26. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    No .
    I even just tried another game to see and it detects the dx12 well!!
    The game is "dirt 5" it is on DX12 and there is no problem.
    I have a vulcan patch for tsc and it detects vulcan well too.
    Are you sure it's the dx12 exe?
     
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  27. GarethDavies21

    GarethDavies21 Member

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    Hello,

    Just a big performance hit to be honest for me. Loading seems faster both into the game and into scenarios.
     
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  28. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    here is the 32 bit dx9 version.

    here is the 32 bit dx9 version.

    Everything works very well.
    The 64 bit version is of course better.
    And if I compare with vulcan then vulcan is much better than dx9 or dx12!
     

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  29. 85Leaf

    85Leaf Active Member

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    The DX12 beta version has made TSC playable again for me. For whatever reason, regardless of high or low graphics settings, the 64 version caused my PC to run all the fans on super high, seemingly reactor core meltdown-stylee. DX12 version does not do that, in fact everything ran smoothly and fairly quietly (machine-wise).

    I noticed while in the menu, regardless if DX12 beta or 64 is chosen, it causes my machine to spool up, but once out of the menu and into a route everything settles.

    Honestly hoping the DX12 version will be here to stay, since 64b is unplayable for me and I've been spending more time in TSW3 (which runs excellently).

    KInd regards,
    Dave

    specs RTX3070, 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11700K @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz, 32G ram, ssd, os= WinDuh's 11
     
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  30. toms87

    toms87 Well-Known Member

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    Same for me, like most others: faster loading times but a massive frame hit in game (between 10-15 frames less than the "normal version"). So not of any use to me at this point. Good, that we can choose to not use the directX version.
     
  31. dolanbaker

    dolanbaker Active Member

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    @ bidibul#3139 How do you get the display you have in that screenshot?
    So I can check what version I am running
     
  32. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    windows key + shift + s (on win 11)
    then you take your screenshot.
    To have the fps displayed it is with MSI afterburner coupled with riva turner:
    https://fr.msi.com/Landing/afterburner/graphics-cards

    I would add that it is up to you to block the FPS in your nvidia settings otherwise your cg will burn!!!
    The V-sync is not activated in the game besides there is still no option to do it directly in the game !!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  33. Matthew Wilson

    Matthew Wilson Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the Vulkan patch, if you have been using it before today, bear in mind it's a patch for Vulkan to run DX9 - so if you've put that back in your Railworks folder, default TS will pick that up, and I imagine the dx12 launch in steam specifically looks for a DX12 dll file.
     
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  34. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    Vulkan is removed for dx12 testing.
    I have been building "gamer" PCs for 15 years and I know very well what I am doing.
    Not counting that I have ts since it came out when it was still called railwork.
    I have also been a creator of free routes for 10 years on ts.
    In short yes no worries, I know very well what I am doing.

    Anyway if you leave the vulcan files and start the game in dx12 it crashes instantly.

    I also have since this morning a clean installation of tsc, no tier dlc or free stuff only steam dlc.
    This is the basis for clean testing, you need a clean game...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  35. Umpire

    Umpire New Member

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    Got new Computer and had lockup problems. Waited for the update. Regular 32 bit and 64 bit still locked up. DX12-64 did not lockup but had no sound in Windowed play. Switched to full screen mode.Sound worked fine and game play appeared OK. Attached screen shot of computer information
    Would be nice to have an Audio volume control available during full screen play mode. Possibly on the screen that pops up when you press escape.
     

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  36. mikel#2931

    mikel#2931 New Member

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    Interesting regarding MSI afterburner reporting DX9. I tried the Nvidia performance overlay from GeForce experience and both the FPS and 99% FPS counters just displayed lines and GPU usage was much lower.

    Its almost like its not using the GPU and is falling back to a software rendering mode.
     
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  37. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    in your nvidia settings you can select the option "opengl render processor"
    also remember to activate the V-sync!
     

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  38. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    for me it performance hit on dx12 i'm getting 17 to 22 FPS but editor load fast and it looks little nicer. i have GeForce rtx 2060 super.
     
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  39. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    I also recommend that you configure suround and physx like this to be sure that it is your cg that works and not your graphics integrated into the cpu!
     

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  40. niall101b

    niall101b Member

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    I have two installs of TSC one in a renamed folder to keep my mods and changes away from steam's verification checks, since I can't launch my main install from steam but from a shortcut would there be a command line I can use to launch this DX12 build there after I have updated the files for it?
     
  41. PlatinumSLS

    PlatinumSLS New Member

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    Looking in the Railworks directory after applying the update, it seems the DX12 version has it's own executable (there are now three .exe files: Railworks, Railworks64 and RailworksDX12_64). The best option would be to make a shortcut to the DX12 executable to launch from that.
     
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  42. vasik.kocmich

    vasik.kocmich New Member

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    It wont load the game, stucked after starting the game, I can hear the sounds the game is on, but nothing else upload_2023-4-28_19-54-15.png
    I have RTX 3080, I tried to verify game files and restarting the PC
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
  43. niall101b

    niall101b Member

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    Thanks for that, I hadn't even looked.... my bad.
     
  44. darkknight1

    darkknight1 New Member

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    I have the same issue on RTX 3050ti. Runs on the integrated graphics, doesn't run on the dedicated one. In Full Screen mode it just crashes, with boderless it stays minimized and only there's only the menu sounds and on windowed mode it's just white + sounds.
     
  45. jhs#1408

    jhs#1408 Active Member

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    yep DX12 edition seemingly like clearly still in beta status, framerate drops quite a lot. i'll stuck with 64BE until it became being supported officially. still fully operated without error for me though... 5600x/4070Ti
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2023
  46. niall101b

    niall101b Member

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    I've been able to run the DX12 version wthout any issue but there was a noticible drop in framerate using it.... 1070Ti
     
  47. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    On my system with a Ryzen 5600x and rx5600xt GPU I'm seeing very similar FPS with dx12 and dx9. I've just tried using the Dxvk package and dx9 combination after it was mentioned in this thread and that gives me by far the best FPS.
     
  48. BeenTrain

    BeenTrain Member

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    Same experience here, average ~30% lower fps in DX12 version compared with x64 version.
    No further problems encounteted.
     
  49. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Initially wouldn't work, but then deleted all DX9 DLLs, and now it works, but the frame rates are diabolical... to the point where the game can't even run in real time. I tested at Man Piccadilly, which is normally only mid 20s for me, but in DX12, it was showing 14fps, but I think that's the lowest it reports, but it was much lower than that... you could literally count the frames it was that slow.
     
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  50. Matt Higgins

    Matt Higgins Member

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    It *might* be useful to provide details on what one might expect to see - I'm absolutely happy to help test, and provide feedback as I'm thrilled there's onwards development of TSC. I guess the issue is I'm not sure what I'm expecting to see different, so it's tricky to know what feedback you want. FPS were a little lower, but the routes and scenarios I tried worked ok, but couldn't tell you whether they were better/worse/no different than the x64 version. Apols if I've missed something, happy to be corrected
     
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