I am starting to collect a list of issues that I have found so far playing the Trenton route. I have listed them below. I'll probably have more to include, but this is what I could find so far. The issues with cab signaling and unexpected ACSES train stops are the most serious in terms of removing immersion and interrupting the on-time completion of services. Cab Signaling Issues There are countless problems related to lack of conformity between the cab signals displayed on the ADU/SDU and the aspects displayed on the physical wayside signals (this applies to pretty much all timetable services). In many cases, after you pass a Clear signal your cab drops to Cab Speed 60 or 80, you pass a cab speed signal your cab drops to approach medium, you pass an approach limited or approach medium signal your cab signals can drop to approach or restricting. In other cases, you can pass a wayside signal displaying approach medium, but your cab signal will stay clear. Rule 279 of the NORAC manual explains why this behavior is usually incorrect. http://www.cottonvalley.org/safety/NORAC-11-02-01-18.pdf (see page 77) There are cab signal drops in places where they should not be. Examples: The ADU downgrades to Cab Speed 60 on Portal Bridge. This is not realistic. ACSES does the job of enforcing the 60 mph limit over the bridge, not ATC. The cab signals drop to approach medium, approach, and restricting much too soon approaching NY Penn from the west (like halfway through the tunnel). The cab signals should not upgrade above restricting before exit A interlocking heading westbound into the North River Tunnels. Currently, they seem to jump up to clear before you have left the interlocking. Red over Red is not a valid signal aspect for the NJT ADUs. If this is meant to represent a positive stop from ASES/ACSES, then you should use the normal Red over dark while incrementing down to 0 mph on the MAS speed bar/ring on the SDU. For the Approach Limited (Approach Medium 45) cab signal aspect on NJT ADUs, the bottom LED should flash green (instead of being steady green) when enforcing a 45 mph ATC speed limit. Yellow over steady green is reserved for the new Approach Medium (Approach Medium 30) separate cab signal code to enforce a 30 mph speed limit separate from the regular Approach aspect. See this video for reference: ACSES/ASES Issues In some areas, there is a 79 mph speed limit enforced (not accurate for this route) and in these areas there almost always an unnecessary ACSES penalty brake that stops the train and prevents you from moving until you cut out the safety systems. The eastbound approach to Dock interlocking on track 2 (Service 3918) and the westbound exit at Elmora interlocking on track 4 (Service 3165) are good examples where you can experience this firsthand. This route uses multiple speed classes for different types of trains. This is good for prototypical ACSES simulation, but the lower service trains should not have to acknowledge or even be alerted to speed changes that are above the speed limits for the lower class. Example: If I am operating a Keystone Service or NJT service, I should not have to acknowledge a speed change from 150 mph to 145 mph or hear the upgrade tone for an increase from 125 mph to 150 mph since those speeds are not applicable to those services. The NJT ASES SDU should not require acknowledgement of every civil speed downgrade at any time as long as you are below the warning curve in terms of speed. In other words, you should not need to acknowledge a downgrade from 60 mph to 50 mph if you are doing 50 when you reach the new speed limit boundary. Rolling Stock Issues NJT Multilevel Cab When safety systems are turned on, it seems that the PCS indicator stays on indefinitely. I could run the service normally without braking issues, but the indicator was on the entire time. It should only be lit when the PCS is opened. If we are trying to be prototypical to current NJT operations, auxiliary or ditch lights on the cab car should not flash. They will stay steady. The pantograph switch does not seem to be functional. I cannot lower the pantograph of the ALP from the cab car by using this switch. ALP-46 The voltage gage on the left side screen (IDU) should read at around 12.5 kV for this route as that the nominal voltage for the NEC south of New Haven. Same goes for the analogue gage on the far right of the desk. The sanding indicator light comes on when there is wheelslip (I do not see an issue since this should happen with automatic sanding as a feature), but the wheelsip indicator does not turn on. Shouldn't the wheelslip indicator turn on when you are actually slipping or sliding? I could never seem to get it to light up. NJT Multilevel Cab and ALP-46 Penalty message boxes on the ADU like "OVERSPEED PENALTY" should only display when the penalty brakes are activated. They are not supposed to be shown just because the train is overspeed or acknowledgement is required. The red circle around the speedometer and the red speed bar around it already do the job of telling you that you are overspeed. All Rolling Stock Alerter / vigilance devices should have their timers reset by performing the following actions in addition to hitting the acknowledge button: changing the throttle setting, applying brakes, blowing the horn, and activating the bell. Performing these actions should also cancel and reset the alerter when it is already blinking/sounding (again, not only the acknowledge button satisfies this requirement) I have more to include later on this list, but I will post these for today. *2/25/2023 Corrected note about ACSES/ASES civil speed acknowledgment per input from Cactusjuice.
When doing Service 3834, I get the 79 cab with a penalty application on Track 1 approaching Metuchen EB. Have to cut-out the ACSES as stated above.
Adding more items below: Signal Issues There are two pedestal type signals on the east side of Rea Interlocking (Harrison). They both seem to permanently display a clear aspect which should not be possible (you cannot display clear for two merging routes in an interlocking). There are two compact (or "spider") position color light signals on Track 5 and 1 at the east side of Newark Penn. The aspects that they show currently are incorrect. They can display 2 horizontal reds on top over dark (stop signal), 2 horizontal reds on top over single white marker (stop and proceed), 2 horizontal reds on top over 2 diagonal yellows (slow approach), 2 horizontal reds on top over 2 flashing diagonal yellows (medium approach), 2 horizontal reds on top over 2 vertical greens (medium clear), or 2 horizontal reds on top over 2 flashing vertical greens (limited clear). The eastbound signal on track 2 at Newark Penn is inaccurately placed inside the station interior. It is supposed to be placed on the same signal bridge used by the signal on track 3. (reference: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/786198/) Cab Signaling Issues Both approaches to the Elizabeth S-curves should be protected by timed cab signal drops. The westbound approach is mostly correct in the simulation (best aspect at automatic signal 129 for tracks 1-3 is approach limited and for 4 is advance approach), but the release from the associated approach medium 45 cab signal should be on a timer rather than a fixed code change location (I do not know the exact timer value, but I have heard estimated from 15-30 seconds before the cab signals would change back to clear). The eastbound approach is not correct in the simulation (there is no drop in cab signal). In reality, there is a code change point right next to the old B&O overhead truss bridge (impedance bonds are present here, but no wayside signal). On tracks 1, 2, and 3, the cab signal should drop to approach medium 45 (if the current aspect is more favorable such as clear) and after a timer has elapsed, it will upgrade back to the original more favorable cab signal aspect if the progression allows for it. There is no drop on track A since the next automatic signal can only display approach limited as its best aspect and tracks 5 and B are not signaled in this direction. (reference: )
Rolling Stock Issues The brake indicator lights and door open lights on each multilevel car are not working properly. There are many videos on YouTube showing the correct behavior. When air brakes are released on a car, the green indicator should be lit on the side mounted 3-light module. When air brakes are applied on a car, the yellow indicator should be lit on the side mounted 3-light module. When the hand brake is applied on a car, the blue indicator should be lit on the side mounted 3-light module. When any doors are open on a car, the red indicator should be lit on the side mounted 1-light module. Route Scenery Issues The catenary configuration around Hunter Interlocking in Newark is incorrect. Catenary portals do not span two tracks each on tracks 1 through 4 in this location. Tracks 1 through 4 should span all 4 tracks (1-4) within the interlocking. There should not be catenary spanning the PATH tracks west of Newark Penn (they are only third rail electrified in this location).
Thank you for information…I have been having similar issues with the ACSES PENALTY @ 79 MPH, especially in some of timetable run with a multi-level cab car…it is annoying, but I shut it off and kept going. Which I am pretty sure is not allowed in real life, but in the world of simulation we are good to go. The route is great they (DTG) need to work on the bugs and we will be good to go. Thanks again for updates!
NJT 3821 (Penn – Trenton) · Cab signals upgrade to Clear too early when leaving Penn Station. · Signal 3W at Bergen (displaying Clear aspect) drops cab signals to Cab Speed after passing. This is a non-conforming aspect. The cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · Signal 3W at Allied is displaying a Cab Speed aspect when switching to Secaucus Track B ahead. This signal should instead display Approach Limited. · The track circuit at the east end of the Portal bridge (BLK W5.9-3) incorrectly downgrades cab signals to Cab Speed every time, even when the entire route ahead is clear and not switching tracks. The cab signals should stay at Clear after passing. · Signal 3W at Rea interlocking is showing an Approach Medium (which is correct). However, the signal progression leading up to this progression is wrong. Instead of having Clear the entire time, the progression should go like this: o Swift exit: Clear 125 o BLK W7.7-3: Cab Speed 80 o BLK W7.9-3: Cab Speed 80 o Signal 3W at Hudson: Cab Speed 60 o Hudson exit: Cab Speed 60 o BLK 7.4: Cab Speed 60 · Signal 3W at Rea interlocking (displaying an Approach Medium aspect) keeps cab signals at Clear after passing. Cab signals should have instead dropped to Approach Medium. · Signal 93-4 at Dock displays Approach Limited when that isn’t possible. According to documentation, it should show Approach Medium instead. · Signal point W10.9 (just east of Newark Airport on track 5) drops cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. This is incorrect since the 113-5 signal is displaying Cab Speed. This signal point should keep cab signals at Clear. · Signal 113-5 (just west of Newark Airport on track 5) is displaying Cab Speed but sets cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. While this technically conforms, source documents that the cab signals should have changed to Cab Speed. · Signal 5W at Lane Interlocking (just west of Newark Airport on track 5) is displaying Cab Speed but sets cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. While this technically conforms, source documents indicate that the cab signals should have changed to Cab Speed. · Signal 187-B (just east of Rahway on track B) is displaying Clear but sets cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. This is a non-conforming aspect. The cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · Signal 287-4 (just east of Edison on track 4) is displaying Clear but sets cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. This is a non-conforming aspect. The cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · Signal 301-4 (west of Edison on track 4) is displaying Clear but sets cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. This is a non-conforming aspect. The cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · Signal point CS 30.8-4 (east of New Brunswick on track 4) incorrectly downgrades cab signals to Approach after passing. This pulse code isn’t even possible in the signal block. Previous signal was displaying Clear. After making my station stop at New Brunswick, the cab signals picked back up to Clear. Lacking dispatch beyond instruciton on that stop? · The signal progression approaching the Stop signal at the end of Trenton’s platform has an issue. Signal 4W at Ham is incorrectly displaying Approach Medium (should display Approach). NJT 3830 (Trenton – Penn) · Starting at Trenton on track 6 before signal 6BE at Fair interlocking which is displaying Medium Clear. The cab signals are incorrectly set at Approach. They should be Approach Medium. · Signal 216-1 (west of Rahway) is displaying Cab Speed but cab signals stay at Clear. Since we’re switching tracks ahead at Union, the cab signals should have dropped to Cab Speed 80 at this point. · After passing 108-A signal (east of Newark Airport), the bottom head has all lights illuminated. · Signal 1E at Cliff displays Approach Limited (which isn’t possible for that signal) and after passing it, cab signals downgrade to 30MPH. · After leaving Cliff interlocking on track #1 (heading east toward Newark Penn) the cab signals incorrectly downgrade to Restricting. The cab signals should be Approach Medium. · This signal is incorrectly displaying Limited Clear when switching tracks. It should be displaying Medium Clear for this switching movement into Newark Penn Track 1. The cab signals incorrectly downgrade to Approach after passing this signal. They should be at Approach Medium. · The signal at the end of Newark Penn track 1 is displaying Clear. It should be displaying Approach Medium since the next signal is Medium Clear. · Passing the Medium Clear at East Dock results in Approach in the cab. The cab signals should be Approach Medium after passing. Then after the switching movement, the cab signals incorrectly downgrade to Restricting. · When operating eastbound toward New York on Track #2, there is a random cab drop to Cab Speed 60 before Swift interlocking. Nothing ahead to cause this. · Passing signal 2E at Swift (displaying Clear) sets cab signals to Cab Speed 60. This does not conform. The cab signals should have remained at Clear after passing this Clear signal. · The signal progression into Penn Station is way too restrictive. If Signal 82E is at Slow Clear, the appropriate progression should resemble what's listed below. Additionally, the signal at CP MID should not always be Cab Speed. o BLK W1.1-2 Clear 125 o BLK W0.9-2 Approach Medium 45 o BLK W0.8-2 Approach Medium 45 o BLK W0.75-2 Approach o BLK W0.7-2 Approach o BLK W0.65-2 Approach o BLK W0.6-2 Restricting
NJT 6237 (Sunnyside Yard – Penn) · When merging onto East River Tunnels track 2 at F interlocking, you pass a dwarf signal displaying Restricting (signal location 40.744537, -73.942047). While this is fine, the cab signals upgrade to Clear after passing this signal, which is a non-conforming aspect. Cab signals should have stayed at Restricting. · Passing the first signal in East River Tunnels track 2 drops cab signals to Approach Medium, even though the signal is displaying Clear. This is a non-conforming aspect. Cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · Passing the second signal in East River Tunnels track 2 drops cab signals to Approach, even though the signal is displaying Clear. This is a non-conforming aspect. Cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · Passing the third signal in East River Tunnels track 2 drops cab signals to Restricting, even though the signal is displaying Clear. This is a non-conforming aspect. Cab signals should have stayed at Clear. · The signal progression coming into Penn Station is nonexistent. If the signal at the end of the tunnel is clear or approach, the previous signal should display Approach Slow and the next previous should display Approach Limited. If the signal at the end of the tunnel is restricting or stop, the previous signal should display Approach and the next previous signal should display Advance Approach. Right now everything is Clear all the way up to Penn Station. NJT 3701 (Penn Station – Jersey Avenue) · Signal 5W at Lane is displaying Cab Speed but drops cab signals to Approach Medium upon passing. While this technically conforms, this situation should have set cab signals to Cab Speed 80. · Signal 287-4 (just east of Edison station track 4) is displaying Clear but drops cabs signals to Approach Medium. This does not conform. Cab signals should have remained at Clear. This also applies to the following block point (CS 29.7). For the movement we’re making ahead at County interlocking, the cab signals should be Clear after passing CS 29.7. · Signal 301-4 (west of Edison station track 4) is displaying Clear but drops cabs signals to Approach Medium. This does not conform. Cab signals should have remained at Clear. · CCP 308-4 (just east of New Brunswick track 4) dropped cabs to Approach. For the movement we’re making ahead at County interlocking, the cab signals should have instead dropped from Clear to Approach Medium. · Signal 315-4 (just west of New Brunswick track 4) is displaying Approach Slow. This is correct for the movement we’re making ahead at County interlocking. However upon passing the signal, cab signals incorrectly downgrade to Restricting. Cab signals should have instead been downgraded to Approach.
Thanks for compiling these signal reports, Brandon! You certainly have much more patience than me to record all these specific examples. Hopefully, the dev team will make the time spent capturing all these bugs/inaccuracies worth it by implementing fixes sooner rather than later.
Here’s one I posted in another thread, I’m not knowledgeable to know if this is a bug with signals or even a bug at all but it doesn’t seem right: Coming out of Penn tunnel where the track curves I get a weird sequence of speed changes: ACSES 75>ATC 60>ACSES 75>ACSES 90 all in the span of like 3 seconds. In the Acela I avoid problems by just staying 60 through that area and acknowledging the drop. In the above video (Trenton ACS-64) you see that even though I stayed under the lowest of the limit the entire time (I was 59mph), and mashed the acknowledge button I still got penalty stop? Does not seem right and may also be a bug in the Trenton ACS-64 acknowledging, on TOP of the weird signals. To make things even more confusing if I run that exact service but use the Boston ACS-64, I don’t get that rapid speed change, but I get a bunch of ATC 30mph approach signals in that area which don’t make sense either. And it’s totally weird that the safety systems report different signals depending on which “version” of the ACS-64 you use?
I see a lot potentially wrong in that video. I can’t tell which system is giving you a penalty brake but they don’t make sense for either case. The quick flip from Clear 125 to Cab Speed 60 does not make sense for two reasons: You passed the fixed wayside signal at Bergen which was displaying steady green for clear - not flashing green cab speed. Cab did not conform to wayside (not a surprise). Unless if the dispatcher changed the pathing or cleared some signals ahead or if you were following AI traffic, you should not have a cab signal flip there. Even if one of those scenarios occurred, you would usually get a cab speed 80 in the signal progression before cab speed 60 for that particular territory. As for ACSES you were obviously under speed in the area below 75 for the curve and below 90 at Bergen, so it should not be giving you a penalty brake. You should not need to acknowledge and get suppression if you are under speed and especially entering a higher speed limit area. As for the whether this bug affects particular equipment, I don’t think I can help answer that question unfortunately since I have not tested the Amtrak equipment as much as I have for the NJT stuff. In any case, I seem to recall that it was mentioned that the cab signaling scripts are applied differently between the Boston and Trenton variants of the ACS-64, so it should be expected that they will behave differently in this route.
Just ran service 3725 (Penn to Jersey Ave.) and ran into several of the issues Brandon reported above with the cab signalling, but also, there was a train blocking my path at Jersey Avenue platform B upon my arrival. Signals approaching County and the spur did not stop me from entering the same block/track as this obstructing train. As my arrival time approached, this train did not move. Service unable to be completed.
question, since when did the external destination signs IRL display the train's next stop? Interior signs, yeah. But the exteriors? I remember them cycling as NJ Transit->Train XXXX->destination
This is what I can see from recent YouTube videos: The exterior signs on the side of the multilevel cars will cycle between the destination capitalized and the word "Train" followed by the number (ex: TRENTON -> Train 3818). The exterior sign on the front of the multilevel cab car is the same except the word "Train" is omitted (ex: TRENTON -> 3818). The display of the interior signs in the multilevel have different cycling messages but here's a summary: The default is "NJ TRANSIT" then "Train" and the number (ex: NJ TRANSIT -> Train 3818). When you get near the next station (coincides with the automated announcer vocalizing the next station), the sign will change as follows: "NEXT STATION" followed by the station, and the train number (ex: "NEXT STATION" -> "NEW BRUNSWICK" -> "Train 3818"). When the train arrives at the immediate vicinity station it will be the same as above, but replace "NEXT STATION" with "THIS STATION" (ex: "THIS STATION" -> "NEW BRUNSWICK" -> "Train 3818"). sources: and
Signal Issues Further info on the "spider" signals hung within the east side of the Newark Penn station overbuild: See reply #3 above for the picture in game. In reality, the signal on track 5 is a two head signal with top head only capable of showing the red aspect and the bottom head able to show the green and yellow aspects, as well as the white stop and proceed marker. In the simulation, the model is correct, but the scripting is wrong. The best aspect that can be displayed is medium clear (red over green) not whatever it currently displays (red with flashing white or green with flashing white). See this photo for reference: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/821384/ On track 1, the signal model used is incorrect. It should be a two headed model with top head capable of displaying the green, yellow, and red aspects and the bottom head able to display the green aspect and white stop and proceed marker. Its best aspect is clear (top head green), but it can also display approach medium (yellow over green), approach (top head yellow), stop and proceed (red over white marker), and stop signal (top head red). See this video from 20 seconds onwards for reference: I counted at least three examples of Frankenstein signals/aspects where a modern colorized position light head was combined with a legacy non-colorized/amber position light head. This is inaccurate and this would be considered to be non conforming as you can only have a colorized position light or a position light signal - it cannot be both. Examples: The eastbound signal on the west side of the platform on track 2 at Newark Penn was displaying approach slow with the top head showing a two yellow diagonal aspect while the bottom showed a diagonal 3-light amber aspect. Either both should be two yellows over two yellows, or 3-ambers over 3-ambers - they are not supposed to be combined. The eastbound distant signal on track A towards Hunter Interlocking was showing approach limited with two yellow lights over 3 flashing amber lights. This is not (and never has been) a position light signal with amber lights. It should instead show 2 yellows over 2 flashing greens. The westbound distant signal on track 4 towards Hunter Interlocking has a similar problem as the item above. It was showing yellow aspect over flashing amber aspect. Rolling Stock Issues ACS-64 See second thumbnail above. I was running the timetable service Amtrak 174 and the ACS-64 left side and center displays always show the "DOORS OPEN" indicator even though the doors on the train are all closed/locked. ACSES/ASES Issues As mentioned above, I was running timetable service Amtrak 174 and I noticed the Class B speed limits were not properly being enforced at the Elizabeth S-Curves. Speed limits for Class B trains (like service 174) on the inner tracks (2 and 3) should be 70 on the curve closest to Elmora Interlocking and 75 on the next curve. It seems that the class A speeds were enforced by ACSES instead as the ADU displayed 80 and 85 respectively for those curves.
Something I noticed is on the NJT cab car, there's no rain or snow accumulation on the windows. This was a problem with the class 66 on SEHS, and sadly they've made the same oblivious mistake once again. Its shameful the testers don't see such obvious things such as this, and not once, but TWICE.
The "Overspeed Penalty" is shown even when stopped. Now I can't make sense of that, so is this a bug or am I just not understanding it correctly?
Unless if you are actively experiencing a penalty brake application, that message should not be shown. Indeed that’s one of the bugs included in the first post above:
Is anyone else having issues recovering from a penalty brake application in the Metroliner Cab Car? I got caught out outside Trenton and could not get re started again, the brakes released but I still had a traction lock so couldn't put any power on.
Mostly during tutorials the brakes can act oddly. Try putting the brake lever in Handle Off and then Release again. Not sure it fixes it after a penalty brake, but worth a try I guess.
I've also found that in the NJT cabcar, pressing "I" (the default key for turning on/off instrument lights) doesn't seem to do anything.
Is it me or is in-cab signalling post-patch still broken (but differently)? Getting a stop signal in the cab, while trackside signals are clear.
