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Ts18: Oh, Oh Waterloo, Finally Coming To Train Simulator!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-Steve, May 29, 2018.

  1. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Main photograph above, copyright Mike Knell.

    Just over 6 years ago, we released the popular Portsmouth Direct Line, and today, we are delighted to announce that a extensively re-worked Portsmouth Direct Line is coming soon to Train Simulator, except this time we’re taking the line all the way to London Waterloo!

    READ MORE
     
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  2. 52_Western

    52_Western Active Member

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    Yes! Waterloo finally makes it into TS!
     
  3. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Finally! About time! Just do us all a favor though and make the trains in SWT livery. The gray SWR livery sucks.
     
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  4. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the new Class 450 included, its in the South West Trains blue and red.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Secludedsfx

    Secludedsfx New Member

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    One of my biggest gripes with the older route was Portsmouth Harbour's station being too curved and therefore the platforms being too short to fit in 12 car trains, has this been fixed with this?
     
  6. cknnr

    cknnr New Member

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    Cannot wait for this!! Looks amazing, here’s hoping to get a refurbished 444 and a SWT 455, would be even better with the refurbished units
     
  7. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

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    A new 450! I'm a 350 fan so this is heaven! :D
     
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  8. Slenderman_HKRES

    Slenderman_HKRES Member

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    Got a few questions?
    1. Is there a discount for those who has already owned the old Portsmouth Direct Line?
    2. Any new features for the new class 450? Having an extended cab view just line the class 350 would be nice
    3. Any new rolling stock will be added in the future? Such as a reworked class 444,new class 458 and 707?
    4. What era will Waterloo be?I( mean is the Waterloo International been refurbished and put back to use or not.)

    I can't wait to see the new Portsmouth Direct Line in TS :)
     
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  9. Kyle_Lennard1

    Kyle_Lennard1 Member

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    IMO I wish they added the SWML towards Bournemouth via Basingstoke as we haven't seen those places in Train Sim
     
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  10. 52_Western

    52_Western Active Member

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    Yes, but don't stop there! I'd say extend it until Weymouth, and add the line to Yeovil via Dorchester West, or even until Bristol, and if either of the South Wales Coastal routes are owned, they could automatically attach onto there!
     
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  11. Mr395008

    Mr395008 Member

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    Nice one. Very much looking forward to this!
     
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  12. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Yes! That's all I wanted to know. Also to DTG, if you have passenger view for this train, PLEASE put the camera in a window seat and not in an aisle seat. The point of passenger view is to well...have the view of a passenger and as a passenger, I like looking out the window at the scenery going past.
     
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  13. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    This is very exciting!
     
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  14. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Good news although it is an interesting thought about whether there will be any discount for existing owners. Is it even possible to give discounts on Steam to prior version owners?

    The current one is still on Steam and certainly anyone who buys it now (and is unaware of this announcement) may shortly be very cheesed off!

    TrainSim-Steve I do worry a little that the phrase ‘totally reworked’ may lead to some unhappiness on its release. Yes, it is extended (significantly) and no doubt it has lots of improvements. However as soon as you use the word ‘totally’ that suggests it is effectively all new which I doubt. Would it be fairer to say that it is ‘extensively reworked and extended’?

    I’d also guess that adding a big lump like Waterloo into the route is likely to lead to performance changes over the old route, at least for those with less powerful rigs. DTG might want to front run that to head off likely posts about FPS decreases and dumps Old vs. New.
     
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  15. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    I just figured they were using the DPS Portsmouth Direct Line that used to be on Workshop and adding an extension to Waterloo onto it.
     
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  16. Secludedsfx

    Secludedsfx New Member

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    If an existing route modification was going to be used it would have been the one I made (Portsmouth Direct Updated) which used DPS's route as a basis anyway but with a ton more changed and updated.
     
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  17. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

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    When you say "completely reworked 450", we're expecting a lot, such as:

    - Updated sounds
    - HD Textures
    - More functions (DRA, DSD, etc)
    - Two tone horn (independently controlled)
    - A WHOLE REVAMP of physics, much needed
    - And much more.

    - And also a discount for the owners of the previous PDL.

    Yet again, we don't expect AP standards, but we should as we're paying good money for this, as we've unfortunately seen trains you've made such as the 150/1 and many, MANY more. Although I'm looking forward to seeing what it'll bring and what's actually changed, I'm not going to hold my hopes up high. Hopefully it'll be good!
     
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  18. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I do! It’s madness we have to pay twice to get a properly simulated train. It wouldn’t be good for AP’s business but still. If I were DTG I’d have moved heaven & earth to being AP in-house a long time ago.
     
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  19. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Knowing DTG, we'll probably get the HD textures, a physics revamp, DRA, and maybe a two tone horn, but I highly doubt anything else. Definitely not the updated sounds. DTG loves cutting corners to save a buck by recycling old sounds. Thankfully in this case, the old 450 sounds weren't too bad, but they weren't good either. They also seem to be kind of random in which trains get a working DSD and which ones don't. Like others in this thread have said, I'm not expecting AP quality, but I do expect something better than the old 450. And if you're expecting a discount, forget it! It looks like they're treating this as a whole new route, not as an extension. It would be nice, but remember, it's DTG. Actually, I wouldn't even be surprised if they take the old Portsmouth Direct route off the store after this is released. Anyway, let's hope DTG doesn't let us down...again.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  20. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

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    Agreed, we have to pay usually around 11.99 for the base train from DTG, then AP do their magic and that's another 11.99 for an Enhancement Pack or 4.99 for a soundpack. Just so you know, I'm not complaining about the price from AP. So that's £20 for 1 train.
     
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  21. 52_Western

    52_Western Active Member

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    Yeah I don't think it'll replace the old PDL. The new 390 didn't replace the old one, so why would this?
     
  22. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Well I already have the old PDL anyway (Who doesn't at this point?), so I honestly wouldn't care if they did take it off the store. I just hope they work a lot more on the 450, because the old 450 really shows its age.
     
  23. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    Just to drop in and answer some of these questions:

    All the trains will be in SWT livery as we don't currently have a licence with SWR.

    Portsmouth Harbour Station has had it's platforms extended and now permits 12-car trains.

    1. Yes, that's what we're planning.
    2. Yes but I can't talk about them just yet. More on that soon. ;)
    3. Potentially but cannot confirm at this time.
    4. The route is set as it is in modern day as it directly relates to SWT.

    As mentioned above, yes we're planning a discount for owners of the original route.

    There's a ton of scenarios and other bits and pieces all over Steam Workshop and the community sites that the new route won't have at the start. So, at least in my opinion, as one of my top-10 favourite routes of all time, I think it would be nice to pick it up and preserve a piece of Train Simulator history. I'm sure everyone will have lots of reasons why it's worth owning. :)

    Some great thoughts in there and I've already made the fixes to the copy. We'll likely get into the improvements moving forward with the next few articles but thanks very much for sharing your thoughts.

    So the trains themselves have had lots of work and we're looking into getting sounds but, just in the interests of giving you the full details so you can make a decision that's right for you, we're already seeing challenges in getting them. Believe me, it's more complicated than you'd think it is but we are working on it. Keep your finger's crossed it all works out.

    We'll have much more information on the trains themselves in a forthcoming article.

    Correct! The new route won't replace the original one - we'll preserve the original route for all those who still enjoy it and have made a million-and-one scenarios for it on Workshop. :)

    Best, Steve
     
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  24. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Steve thanks for the answer. On fixing the copy you’ve done it in your post but the article it links to still, at the top, talks about being ‘totally reworked’. Might have someone fix that as well?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  25. AndyDC1985

    AndyDC1985 New Member

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  26. CrazyGecko

    CrazyGecko Active Member

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    Just a casual observation but in the current PDL there is track above Guildford to Alton that's not used. Will this be removed in the new PDL or be added in later as a possible extension?
     
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  27. Matthew Wilson

    Matthew Wilson Member

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    I'm not sure what you're after - HD textures, the standard for HD is 1280x720 - not only incompatible size but actually very low resolution as well.
     
  28. bellminsterboy

    bellminsterboy New Member

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    well done DTG, sounds great :) Just one tiny request, Steve, can we please have a passenger view for the 450? Well done so far, it does look good.
     
  29. 390001

    390001 New Member

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    Because the route as mentioned in the article is from Waterloo to Portsmouth if they added the above mentioned then someone would complain why not add (insert branch name) then someone else would say can you not include (insert branch name) it would be never ending. Think about it the more track and scenery etc they add the more resource hungry the route becomes then people complain it causes a tempdump. Keep it simple go from point A to Point B as the route name suggests and problems wont occur.
     
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  30. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and as I said above, position the camera at a window seat, not an aisle seat. I swear they do that on every train.
     
  31. darujhistan

    darujhistan New Member

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    This is what I was thinking, DTG have been making products long enough to know it's limitations, they developed the software in the first place, I don't really understand why people demand certain things, you push an old game to it's limits, then your going to get problems, and people will moan, it's the same old story.

    I try to embrace the products I buy, and get the best enjoyment out of them as I can, regardless of it's faults, there is no point in being picky or negative, (being negative is a pointless and wasted emotion, I'm old enough to know that now) but it seems certain people on here already know what this route is going to be like before it's even been released, so DTG are so predictable, what ever, if you already know what the route is going to be like, and you can not except or like the way DTG make they're own products, maybe this is not the right hobby for you or you are not buying the right products, after all no one is forcing you to purchase anything.

    DTG are very open about their products before each release, providing us with screen shots and information, you know actually what you are getting, it is pretty simple, and if you don't like the way DTG do things, fine, I'm OK with that, but do yourselves and us all a favour and move on.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  32. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

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    Oops! Missed one. Thanks for the eagle eye Medellinexpat - greatly appreciated! :)

    Already in the plan ;)

    We'll see what we can do but, typically, it's tricky placing the viewing position right next to the window as the camera can often clip through the window itself - which is just how the camera system works in Train Simulator. I'll certainly put your suggestion forward to see what can be done.

    Best, Steve
     
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  33. CrazyGecko

    CrazyGecko Active Member

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    Certainly looking forward to it though. Will the curves have super elevation "whatever it's called" in this one?
     
  34. nxth

    nxth New Member

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    Its really good to see London Waterloo in the game :D Will there be a class 444 that comes with the route?
     
  35. AndyDC1985

    AndyDC1985 New Member

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    The main reason asking about #Effingham was some direct fast trains during a peak time scenario.
    However thanks for reply :)
     
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  36. 390001

    390001 New Member

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    If you read the article it will tell you
     
  37. 390001

    390001 New Member

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    Exactly always makes me laugh how as soon as dtg mention a new route or train the “we need an AP sound pack for this” appear. Before they have even heard the sounds.
     
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  38. iAspex

    iAspex Active Member

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    Possibly an enhancement pack if it's too bad. ;)
     
  39. DeanO55

    DeanO55 Member

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    Very exciting news. I too look forward to it's release.
    Is Waterloo a much smaller station than most other London termini?
     
  40. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    I agree that if they're doing routes with detailed scenery that they should keep it to one route at a time. I hate it when they tack another long route onto an existing one as an extension and as a result, it pushes the game to its absolute limits. This is one major problem with the NJT routes. Why did the Morristown line have to be an extension, instead of its own route? It's not like any trains go from Long Branch or Bay Head straight to Summit or Dover without stopping at Hoboken or New York Penn. This is also one thing that I'm afraid will happen to any future MTA content. If they make an LIRR route or another Metro North route, make it separate. Don't tack it onto NY-NH. If they make a South Western Main Line route, or any other SWT route, they should make it separate from this. Yeah you won't have a whole big system in one route, but it will save you a lot of frustration from dealing with crashes and poor frame rates. I'm scared to think of how bad Waterloo alone is going to be with that.
     
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  41. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    No. Waterloo is pretty huge and I'm pretty sure it still stands as the busiest station in London. Get ready for some good ol' dump crashes!
     
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  42. darujhistan

    darujhistan New Member

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    I think there are about 18 to 20 platforms at Waterloo, although Wikipedia says there are 24, but that's if you were to combined them with the Underground and Waterloo East stations. I know two of the platforms are still no longer in use, the old Eurostar used to use them back in the day, so I think there are now only 18 platforms that are actually in use at the moment.

    So Waterloo is not really much bigger than Clapham Junction, which has 17 platforms I believe. I don't always think it's the platforms and track that causes problems, it's how much stock and what type that's used during each senario, DTG have always been criticised for the lack of stock and Al traffic on many of their scenarios, once again it comes down to TS limitations, you have to get the balance right.
     
  43. darujhistan

    darujhistan New Member

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    Well I'm beginning to wonder how good the whole of the Just Trains Western Mainlines is going to turn out, the first part has 300 miles, then you have the South Devon Extension attached to it which is a further 52 miles, and last bit will be the Cornish Main Line, an additional 72 miles. What has been released so far works alright on my set up, the frame rates are a bit poor in some areas but all in all it is playable. And then there's the other two small extensions that can be added if you wish.

    I would of preferred to have Western Mainlines done has individual separate routes, Just Trains are really pushing TS to it's limits, but I don't think there will be many people out there who will be willing to drive from Paddington to Penzance all in one go, that's 7 odd hours of continuous driving.
     
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  44. Secludedsfx

    Secludedsfx New Member

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    Western Mainlines as a base already crashed a ton, let alone with extensions added on and it's all to do with the size of the tracks.bin it seems as it's the biggest I've ever seen at 16MB.
    When I deleted portions of the track and reduced the size of it stability of the route increased drastically and with the original PDL only being 3.6GB (Including all the unused track to like Alton) they've got quite a bit of room to play with and I'd guess you'd see the tracks.bin size top off at around 8-9ish which is still miles below WML.
     
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  45. Gaming

    Gaming New Member

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    Can't wait for this. Will the 450 have better brakes or are they like irl?
     
  46. PeterN62

    PeterN62 New Member

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    Waterloo Mainline station has 24 platforms with 20-24 being in the former International terminal. 21-24 are currently closed for rebuilding, with full reopening later this year. 21-24 were open last Summer during the work to extend P1-4.

    In terms of passenger numbers it's the busiest station in the UK by am long stretch.
     
  47. PeterN62

    PeterN62 New Member

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    Waterloo is the largest station in London and may in fact be the largest in the UK.
     
  48. Dom Whibley

    Dom Whibley Member

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    This looks amazing. Just missing out my local station though. I think an extension to Basingstoke would be a very good idea. I would definitely buy it then.
     
  49. Fat

    Fat New Member

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    I look forward to paying another £25 for a route I already have just for an extension that should've been done in the first place.
     
  50. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Strange, I’ve got WM with the Oxford-Bicester extension and I’ve never had a crash. In fact, I could count on one hand the number of times TS has crashed full stop, and when it has it’s always during loading a complex scenario into the editor. A restart and it always works second time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018

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