Ts2022 - Discover The Desiro

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jan 24, 2022.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    1643030969862_20220121110629_1.jpg
    For over 5 years, the BR Class 700 has been roaming the rails of London and beyond, and soon this iconic and modern Desiro City will be coming to Train Simulator!

    Read the article here.
     
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  2. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    Perfect, it will match perfectly with the new DLC from Blackfriars to orpington, and also with the Brighton Main Line and London Bedford.

    Wouldn't a revamp for the Brighton Main Line these days be nice, like the Portsmouth Direct Line: London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour?
     
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  3. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully it’ll come to TSW 2 before too long too.
     
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  4. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

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    i just wanna clarify, does this licence agreement, have the same effects on TSW2? will we potentially get a class 700 on TSW2 in the future?
     
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  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If there is a route to run the 700 on in TSW2 it should appear.
     
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  6. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    This is exciting.. Always nice seeing something fresh in TS... Definitely a buy for me upon launch. I envy the UK community. Because we Americans...
     
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  7. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    I’m sure they wouldn’t be able to discuss the terms of the license let alone put it in the forums but I hope we find out in the near future one way or another!
     
  8. Veryfatbloke

    Veryfatbloke Member

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    Yes, South Eastern High Speed. IRL, they run between Rainham and Luton, so could be driven between Rainham and Gravesend or used as AI services.
     
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  9. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    As well as London To Brighton and the Midland Main Line, which Just Trains may make.
     
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  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    This fits BML and MML St Pancras to Bedford ECML South. For TSW2 a DLC for BML with Three Bridges TMD as the tutorial level.
     
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  11. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Or you use the section of the MML that DTG make and that Danny has combined with Southern routes
     
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  12. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    It looks really good, I just don't know how the physics and sounds will be
     
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  13. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    So, who desires the Desiro?

    (sorry, it just had to be said!)
     
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  14. Andrew Tiffin

    Andrew Tiffin New Member

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    I never saw this coming but I'm going to enjoy this train
     
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  15. ecoops321

    ecoops321 New Member

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    To say the least, the news and WIP shots of the Desiro look fantastic! Without doubt will fly off the shelves quickly! This is likely the train I have used most in the sim (courtesy of SuperAlbs 700), more than the Electrostars and Networkers and will be amazing to recreate the scenarios with less 3rd party content for eventual workshop use.

    As previously mentioned by others it would be great to see an updated version of Thameslink operated routes. Main drawback is someone would have to design the new London Bridge and the more complex/expanded rail network up to St Pancras which the new Blackfriars route does not have. Plus the split off to the King's Cross main line just after St Pancras. They're all a lot of work to say the least but massive props to whomever takes this on in the future.
     
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  16. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    A good idea. I think we now have the entire Thameslink fleet in TS now (including the oddballs like the 317s).
     
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  17. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    Not a favourite of mine but very much needed in TS to bring a lot of routes up-to-date. Good work and I suspect it's going to be a beauty to drive what with it being a Desiro and that huge windscreen.
     
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  18. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The 48 class 317/1 were not really oddballs - they were built for that route running from Bedford to St Pancras and Moorgate.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/24165672691

    They worked over the line from 1993 to 1997 when the short extension from Farringdon to Blackfriars was introduced and the trains were replaced with Dual Voltage 319s with the 317's moving to other routes out of London
     
  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Should have come with an updated route through Farringdon, etc. For Thameslink services. London Bridge needs updates badly.
     
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  20. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, they were part of a large order of units spread between London Midland and Southern Region and a very important part of the railway landscape in NSE land. They were the basis for most of the EMUs built by BR for a decade. The last few 317s will be withdrawn in the next few weeks having served Euston, St.Pancras, Moorgate, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street commuters over the last 39 years.
     
  21. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly, there were some used temporarily during the Thameslink Programme/Thameslink 2000, which is what I was referring to (unless it's a case of Mandela syndrome and I was confusing it with what you were saying).
     
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  22. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right there as they used a small batch on the Moorgate services
    When I looked for a picture all the sets were in Blue/Grey and in the early days
     
  23. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  24. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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  25. acro

    acro Member

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    I'm quite looking forward to this, the model is looking fantastic. It'll be nice to have some runs on the Chatham Mainline as well as the BML, MML and ECML. I'm just praying they don't use the same desiro sounds that they've had since the original Portsmouth direct line, they are horendously dated and WAY too loud.
     
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  26. beuhRail

    beuhRail New Member

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    hmmmmm, when will it be released? :)
     
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  27. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Usually a DTG announcement is followed by a release within a few weeks on a Thursday afternoon
    Have to wait for Steam on Pacific Daylight Time
     
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  28. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    There are already a lot of people saying don’t buy it. I will need to see videos on this. The complaint is the sounds are just completely wrong and it is too far gone even for AP to save it. So yeah, I need to see - or rather, hear - a video.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not visible yet, but then Steam COULD reject the reviews...
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
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  29. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Apparently it uses a mix of the 395 and 350 sounds. Looking at a few YouTube videos, it doesn't seem a bad option but of course it depends on how they're implemented.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
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  30. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Of course, the question then becomes is the 700 using the 395 and 350 sounds...or were they using the 700 sounds to start with? *X-Files music*
     
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  31. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    I guess I shall grab it now and find out!
     
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  32. brummie

    brummie Active Member

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    Nice, if you can give us an update on what you think when you've had a play with it, would be much appreciated mate.
     
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  33. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why nobody mentioned the ECML which the 12 car sets also run on
    IMG_6057.JPG
    Peterborough - 15 Sept 2021
     
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  34. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I think I saw the ECML mentioned, thought it was here.
     
  35. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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    It's mentioned in the description of the 700 page on steam? where it says routes it can be used on?
     
  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    That might be it. :D
     
  37. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably going to get it despite the reviews, mostly because AP will probably do a pack in a few years using it, and I don't particularly care about the sounds. When I have New Order playing at full volume, I don't need a sound patch. :D
     
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  38. inside.a.gamer7

    inside.a.gamer7 New Member

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    Can anyone help me I can't seem to find it to make a scenario bloody manual was useless too. Thanks in advance
     
  39. acro

    acro Member

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    Welp...
     
  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The prayer was not answered.
     
  41. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    I didn't want to hijack this announcement thread so I posted my initial thoughts after my first 20 mins of gameplay on this thread instead, but will give it the proper once over at the weekend!
     
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  42. Mark newman

    Mark newman Well-Known Member

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    First look class 717 FB_IMG_1643329693031.jpg
     
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  43. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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  44. brummie

    brummie Active Member

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    Many thanks for getting back to us, look forwards to seeing it later then. Cheers.
     
  45. dragoner

    dragoner Well-Known Member

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  46. Mark newman

    Mark newman Well-Known Member

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  47. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Echoing my Discord comments somewhat, there are a few things in my mind on this. One is that you still have to buy an incomplete model that seems developed more as an afterthought more than anything else, and it's not in the range to get any kind of decent sale as yet. As a result, to get a properly working and sounding Class 700, it will cost, in my case, $21.99 CAD plus the CAD conversion of what I presume will be 16.99 in GBP. That adds nearly $30, bringing it up to close to $52 to get ONE TRAIN looking proper. I can buy a route for $45.49 CAD. So I am extremely annoyed by this factor alone.

    On the other hand, it would also add a 707. And a 717. And likely multiple liveries of each. Which could easily be $65.97 (that's 21.99 times 3) if each sold on Steam with a single, or two, liveries. So if AP loads this thing with all sorts of liveries for each train, it could actually be a better value than if we bought the trains as their own DLC. But I still have a problem with handing over full price for an incomplete model on Steam in the first place. This is complicated by the fact that DTG surely will want to make changes to the base model and audio and the EP could in turn be rendered unusable over time. So this is a very complex situation, and I think AP would have been better off to do a full pack instead of an EP here. Of course, then it costs more from them, as well.

    So I'm conflicted in giving full price for a 50% job by the original developer and then having to pay nearly 150% more on top of that for things to look and sound better. On the other, you get three trains from it, at a price that is roughly 21% off if all three were already on Steam.

    This will all rotate on how many liveries come with the pack, I feel. Though for many, I'm sure it's an instant buy.
     
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  48. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    There are rumours that Master Key Simulations and AP had planned the whole thing. A scumbag move if true.
     
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  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I will say this: they were VERY quick to put out the trailer with new sounds. And I agree it's scumbaggery. I can't imagine DTG is going to be very pleased with them doing their own pack. It would serve AP right for DTG to update the train and make the AP pack absolutely worthless, hilariously enough. It also makes DTG look INCREDIBLY bad to have someone literally one-up them immediately after the release of their work. Sure, people will still have to buy their train to use it, and if DTG themselves planned around AP and MKS doing this right after them, then it just makes DTG look bad to loyal customers as well because those not in the third-party market are going to feel ripped off. But if DTG had no participation in this, let's just say that this is also a lesson to DTG that they need to put out a top-notch product of their own and not allow AP to try to make money to better them.

    But at the same time, they may have had legitimate plans to do their own pack. Then DTG put out their 700 and they quickly converted their project to an EP. That's just adapting to the situation.

    At this point, any future DLC needs to include a remark in the terms and conditions section that it's illegal to use this piece of software in other payware products and that any derivative works must be freeware only, with no objection to that. Anyone producing a payware pack must release it through DTG as a publisher. End of story. Could it kill third party? Maybe. It's a tough call. But DTG has been much more protective with TSW2. They never have been with TS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
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  50. acro

    acro Member

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    How would MKS benefit from doing that? Also, hasn't this model been sitting in limbo for the past few years? Not quite sure why'd they'd give it to DTG and then also AP at the same time...
     

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