Ts22 - Br Class 700 Out Now

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Jan 27, 2022.

  1. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Disappointed
     
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  3. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    Disappointing, how can you guys do that with class 700?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2022
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  4. yambam#1598

    yambam#1598 New Member

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    Having a quick go on the 700, I feel that it has been released as a unfinished product.
    The following I have noticed the following issues

    - The sounds are quiet
    - doesn't sound like a Class 700
    - the passenger interior isn't detailed as the product page states just a very basic version
    -the lighting isn't right no shading on the model
    -the sounds in the cab sounds like the echoing in the tunnels
    - the destination displays are quite dim
    -the door opening and closing noises are the same
    -the braking squeals not right.

    The model it's self is quite good just the interior and sounds let it down. It's like the 323 all over again.

    I'm sure Armstrong Powerhouse will work their magic for the sound side of things in the future
     
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  5. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    External and cab modelling is alright, but as expected the sounds are copied from the Class 450, and like the still unfixed Class 323 are not programmed in correctly; motor sounds are heard constantly when the train is in motion, it's like listening to a burglar alarm - not pleasant. Door open and close sounds are the same - no PRM close door beeping sounds, just the same opening sound playing again.

    Worst still, I had a quick look at the manual out of curiosity to see who made it, only to find it incomplete with placeholder images and descriptions from other products. Really not great.

    Overall it just feels like a £12 AI filler.
     
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  6. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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    It seems the steam manual used an out of date one - the actual one that comes with the product is fine (they know about it) but the actual manual is here.

    (to note - I'm staying away from commenting about the 700 so please don't ask me anything about it - I know some may want to rant at me about it, all I ask is aim that at the right people :) )
     

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  7. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Ontop of this there are also these issues

    - When you open the windows the glass stays in the same spot
    - The speedometer doesn't work on DC power
    - The joint sounds are missing
    - The whine doesn't change pitch as you gain speed (even the original 450 from 2010 did that!)
    - The proportions of the windshield are too big, meaning the yellow panel goes further down than it should.
    - The menu picture is missing for the 700/0
    - AWS should alert when the master key is inserted, not when the reverser is put in forwards
     
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  8. CrankyBot

    CrankyBot New Member

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    No I'm pretty sure it does get better than "this"...
     
  9. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    :D:D

    Made even funnier with all the Facebook comments saying "I like the way it's not even released yet and people can't wait for an AP SP/EP", "I mean how can you tell that just from pictures for crying out loud"

    Ummm coz DTG.. aka Deaf Tone Games.
     
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  10. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, DTG's sound engineer has posted his new profile pic..
    suzuki-kizashi-bubble-wrap-suit-600-124261.jpg
     
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  11. inside.a.gamer7

    inside.a.gamer7 New Member

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    Been looking make a scenario can't find it in menu anywhere manual doesn't help either anyone know what boxes I need to tick to get it to show?
     
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  12. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Just thought I would share a summary picture of the steam reviews. 9/10 have left a negative review.

    I mean how on earth did this train get signed off? It looks a disgrace; the interior looks like the 2011 electrostar!

    Already a project for Armchair Powerhouse to pick up the pieces.

    24A4117B-9DC1-43CC-BA1F-A35E03578733.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  13. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    Outside: It's a pretty good model of a fairly bland but widely seen unit.
    The rest: An embarrassment to DTG. I echo all of the above comments.

    4 years DTG sat on this and I'm only keeping it because I know someone from the community will patch and remap it in 4 days and make it a pretty good unit. No wonder DTG don't want us anywhere near an editor for TSW2. Things were looking up after the East Kent line.
     
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  14. markandrei24

    markandrei24 Active Member

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    DTG/Class700Pack01
     
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  15. Matthew Wilson

    Matthew Wilson Well-Known Member

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    Are you quite sure about this? Every train I've ever encountered, the AWS self-test only happens when master key is inserted and then the reverser is moved from OFF to any of the other 3 positions. The AWS self-test should not sound again if the reverser is only moved between Reverse, Neutral and Forwards. I should point out by "encountered" I mean both in TS and in my job as a train driver in the UK.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  16. catsrcool

    catsrcool New Member

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    What a steaming pile of crap the 700 is. I thought the initial release of WCML South was bad enough but this another low.
    The physics are all wrong as are the sounds or lack of them. DTG have learnt no lessons from the past.
    MKS did the model several years ago and DTG have just been sitting on it.
    IMHO the only use for it is as AI. Having to listen to the "UFO" inverter sounds loop on DC for more than a few minutes is irritating to say the least.
     
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  17. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    I did not have any expectations from the "box" from DTG, all hope is only and only on AP
     
  18. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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    No they haven't, they only had it from October last year (that's the only thing I'll comment on though, because i'm not allowed to :) )
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  19. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    I urge DTG to not release unfinished content like this, buyers to get your refund, and DTG to instantly remove the ban on all classic US rolling stock packs.
     
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  20. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    LOL... I was the only oddball to give it a recommended vote. Only because there isn't a neutral option. I make no apologies for it.

    But I will say, this company has been in the business way too long to be pushing content that isn't of acceptable quality. Apparently, there is someone or some people there, who just don't care. And I understand, while from the outside, it may seem like a hobby for us, it's still just a job to some within at the end of the day. I feel that on every level there needs to be a bit of a shakeup within the company. Mainly starting with the higher-ups, who seem to be mostly concerned about profitability than quality. Bring people on who actually have the skill, resources, and passion to make content that is at an acceptable level. And not having adhered to unreasonable time constraints.

    This is something that works out well for devs like Just Trains, Armstrong Powerhouse, and other external 3rd parties... While also, giving people something to look forward to well ahead of release. Because the secrecy (as well as NDA's) honestly don't seem to be doing much to help. Even if things don't pan out, it's still best practice to communicate this with the community so there's little backlash over something that is delayed, disappears into obscurity, or isn't where it needs to be upon release. I get the hounding can be a little much, but the backlash that comes for content like this that is only officially announced shortly before the release of it can really hurt the reputation of the dev/publisher, as well as put a bad taste in the mouth of folks who support the company with their wallets.

    The issue with the company isn't entirely on them, it's also the lack of any real competition that plays into it because when you have no one to compete with, you don't have much of an incentive to strive to do or be better. And it shows.
     
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  21. Es4t

    Es4t Member

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    Wholeheartedly agree with your comments mate. I’ve mentioned in the streams a couple of times now that DTG seem intent on pumping out quantity over quality. It a shame really. DTG don’t seem to want to listen nor take any constructive feedback. The constant ‘we can’t talk about’ this or that is appalling.
    The recent changes to the TSW roadmap highlight the contempt that the punters are held in. The only way things will change is if we vote with our wallets!
    C’mon DTG you can do better!
     
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  22. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO the DTG schedule for creating, testing and releasing a product is too tight.
    They have decided on a release date and then if something turns up in the testing stage they are short on time to change it.

    I don't know anyone who works for DTG but this "build it and get it out" way of working must dishearten the staff when something they have worked on is given such poor reviews.

    And it seems to be happening a lot recently - WCML-South, Frankfurt – Koblenz, Birmingham Cross City Line and Northeast Corridor have all received updates after their release.

    It would be nice if DTG built more time in to a product and took notice of the testers who say "Euston - we have a problem"

    Peter
     
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  23. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    The crazy thing is they don't often give exact release dates with most of their products, especially with TS. So if they're making decisions on release dates, that's usually only amongst themselves. When they say soon, it gives them plenty room to do what they need to before they actually do so. This was only officially announced earlier this week, as you well know, and here we are... giving our opinions on the state of the product. This really could have been given another week at the very least to address whatever issues are plaguing this piece of content. It's not like they're releasing 1st party stuff at the same rate they used to prior to TSW. But there really needs to be something done to internal restructuring.
     
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  24. Es4t

    Es4t Member

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    Don’t forget a lot of the guys and gals at DTG are rail enthusiasts of some sort or other. When people put an lot of effort into their work only for it to be ‘pulled apart’ is demoralising. I am sure any of us who have had negativity of any sort at work can sympathise but someone needs to stand up at DTG and say enough is enough! Any company can only fob off customers for so long…
     
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  25. catsrcool

    catsrcool New Member

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  26. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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    I can't see the post :) (but what i meant was the TS Dev team only had it since October and has only known about it since then)

    (I don't really want to join a group that I had to leave because of the hostility that I've had against me in it the last time i was in there)

    Edit - please don't misquote me and that's one of the reasons why I'm not in there - people misquoting things I've said.

    I never said that! I just said DTG haven't been holding on to it for years... (not that it was brand new)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  27. catsrcool

    catsrcool New Member

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    if he wants to be technical about it jordi never fully finished the model so he could say it’s just been finished but semantics really
     
  28. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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    That's not helpful or useful - again you've missed the point of what I've said
    (I know you are quoting Alan, but I have said that I've known that Jordi started it ages ago, only that the TS Dev team had it from October).
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  29. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    I think I understand what you are saying, and in some way I do feel sorry for the employees of DTG, they seem to be not allowed to comment on technical matters (bad sound, wrong engine scripts, non-working brakes etc) other than saying "We'll look into it."

    And there is the pressure of deadlines which is obviously not good for the quality of their products, with Tehachapi's rolling stock being a showcase in failed / non-existing quality assurance / beta testing - and no will to fix those issues. Why? Because it costs money. People buy it anyway, and I am also one of those.

    But as sorry as I feel for the people doing their job at DTG and getting a lot of criticism that could lead to frustration - this is a commercial product, and the criticism is legitimate. People pay and want quality - just as you from DTG want quality when you go out and buy something.

    DTG, you bought the game from Kuju to make money and you have been successful. But the people buying your content are railway enthusiasts too and demand a game from enthusiasts for enthusiasts. Otherwise it is bound to fail someday.

    And why DTG's Flight Sim World failed is telling very much about the obvious problems they have.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  30. dragoner

    dragoner Well-Known Member

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    Armstrong Powerhouse*
     
  31. dragoner

    dragoner Well-Known Member

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    I suspect DTG has dev teams divided, which means that some will do German content, others british content, maybe both of them US content, two teams for developing trains (one well experienced, one unexperienced).
     
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  32. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    I do not know and do not care. Their management seems to be the problem.
     
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  33. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    Anyway, they still need to solve this problem. No one from DTG has commented on this yet, right? It's time for DTG to focus on quality over quantity, I wish this release had been excellent, but unfortunately it wasn't, but they can officially fix it, without us having to buy or download mods, and deliver us a product that by default is good.
     
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  34. dragoner

    dragoner Well-Known Member

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    It's not just the terrible management, the devs who made it had lack of experience in terms of scripting and sounds (Model was made by MKS).
     
  35. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    It is a management problem because if I had a company that creates simulation software I'd hire people that are competent and give them what they need to produce quality content.

    For example the community found out why the brakes on Tehachapi did not work. The engine script (unfortunately I haven't found a way to uncompile these yet but you can read the strings anyway) refers to the brakes' "HoldLapped" position. The engine blueprint calls this "MinimumReduction". So this position of the brake is not recognized by the script. Whose mistake? And why isn't there anybody from DTG commenting on this? It was a game breaker.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  36. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Has ts22 become the test track for tsw2 :cool:

    Get the feedback and release it better elsewhere
     
  37. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Make your beta testers pay instead of paying them! ;)
     
  38. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Derek Siddle, the guy that put so much effort in his Weardale&Teesdale route and always delivered high quality stuff is now Art Director at DTG. Derek, what's your thoughts on the discussions?

    https://dereksiddle.blogspot.com/2008/09/
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  39. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    It was deliberate.
     
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  40. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Well-Known Member

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    I want to buy it but I also don’t want to.
    I don’t want to spend 11.99 on something then give my live savings for a slightly better train made by Armhouse powerstonks
     
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  41. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Well unless they make their own model, you’ll end up spending money getting it just to use it anyways.
     
  42. dragoner

    dragoner Well-Known Member

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    Either Enhancement pack or Sound pack (although there is not much to enhance).
     
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  43. kiranmims7

    kiranmims7 New Member

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    I'm highly disappointed from the sounds, to the lack of scenarios, and even the passenger view like come on now you have fully walk through train why not have passenger views to properly show that off! The whole train besides the model is a massive disappointment and I really though you guys might have gotten it a bit right this time but I see I was mistaken. Maybe even try partnering up with AP more when making sounds at least. hopefully if you make the class 701, 745, or 345 the same mistakes won't be made.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
  44. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Active Member

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    (I can't comment on the 700, but seeing as I did the scenarios - I'm a bit surprised by this one - there are 3 of them included ? (unless it's because you don't have the route? )
     
  45. Mark newman

    Mark newman Well-Known Member

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  46. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame we're seeing a few full price locos needing immediate mods to fix them. Paying 100% rrp on that basis tastes sour
     
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  48. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    no off position in the Desiro City series, god knows why but it’s the exception to the rule
     
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  49. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if DTG Jamie could give us an update on whether any of these issues are going to be fixed or whether I need to shell out £9.99 for the AP class 444/450 Enhancement pack just to make this useable.
     
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  50. brummie

    brummie Active Member

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    Yeah c'mon Jamie, just a short message will do to let us know if something is being done to address some of the issues reported by numerous people on these forums!
     
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