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Ts22 - Introducing The Routes

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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  2. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Member

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    Thank you very much DTG for releasing fixes for these routes that have already been released. Looking forward to the launch of the Deluxe route.
     
  3. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    While I certainly appreciate the routes are getting needed fixes/updates. I feel like this could have been touched upon in the previous article. This is really more of a reiteration than an introduction. Would have been nice to have the new route introduced alongside this..
     
  4. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Hi, the only route I’m interested in, I’ve already got. Will the core update to TS 2022 be free as usual for those not wanting the routes?
     
  5. kolesnikvictor

    kolesnikvictor Member

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    Yes, it is. We got free year update and paid bundle of routes
     
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  6. jumbs10

    jumbs10 New Member

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    Disappointed to see yet another years release with routes that are already available to buy. Would be nice to have seen a route not already available. :(
     
  7. kolesnikvictor

    kolesnikvictor Member

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    We'll get new route in deluxe edition
     
  8. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    No actual confirmative mention of a sound fix for the 323.

    Can I assume they're going to patch existing owners with the fixes around the same time?
     
  9. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Glad they're releasing fixes, especially for the Cross-City Line. Maybe they'll fix that EXTREME jank with the 323 sounds where the motors cut out between stages when you're accelerating in anything but notch 4.

    You can see what I'm talking about at the 5:52 timestamp on Yawwie's review of the route:
     
  10. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    DTG Jamie Will i have to buy the ts2022 edition to get the update to Frankfurt Koblenz, or will it be updated for all owners of the route?
     
  11. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Unless they release it as a whole new DLC with a new app number on Steam, I believe everyone will get the update.
     
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  12. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    This will be free for those who already own the routes, yes :)
     
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  13. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    So, in terms of the 323, it's on our list to patch, but is a more complex fix, so won't be ready for release of TS22. We'll keep you updated on our progress though when we have more to share. We know it's something that needs sorting though.

    The patch to the routes will run alongside TS22's launch (can't say it'll be exactly the same time, but the plan will either be with a core patch prior to TS22 being available, or alongside).
     
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  14. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  15. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    That’s great. Thank the team for giving this route an overhaul.
     
  16. samsonbo

    samsonbo Member

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  17. 878606

    878606 New Member

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    Thanks DTG for starting to ironing the issues with this 3 routes this is good example it's never too late.
     
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  18. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Are you ready to tease some of the updates? Pwetty please? :)
     
  19. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    You may want to keep an eye out for Railfan TV next week... ;).

    DTG Natster will be pubishing soon.
     
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  20. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Active Member

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    What do you think will be in Deluxe? I think we might get the last piece to the West Coast Main Line. A lot of us do not want to shell out £32 a year subscription to ATS just for this one route, so Its understandable that some might want D T G to make one
     
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  21. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Riesa - Leipzig extension. Perhaps with the inclusion of Dresden Meißen as there seems to be some overlap between german TSW and TS routes.
     
  22. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully we'll find out more about the deluxe edition on the upcoming core stream for TS22 on Wednesday instead of the usual Workshop Wednesday.
     
  23. frank351981

    frank351981 Member

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    I´m not sure that routes in TSW will come to TS, especially new routes. They would create a competing product. In different way it makes a little more sense to bring older TS-routes into a graphic-modern setting as TSW. But who knows....
     
  24. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Active Member

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    I think its pointless bringing TSW routes to TSW, as TSW-Exclusives will encourage TS Classic Players to move to TSW. Bringing TSW routes to a game with an Outdated and considerably more unstable engine and worse graphics. Bringing old TS routes to TSW, a far superior game in most ways, which has better graphics, a way newer engine, insight into whats coming soon weeks, sometimes months or even a whole year before the DLC releases, and is, in most ways, more stablablty will attract more customers
     
  25. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Their subscription model isn't based solely on just one route. There are quite a few routes and Locos that are being done as a result of the paid subscriptions.
     
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  26. dudleybrooke

    dudleybrooke New Member

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    Don't stop Workshop Wednesday for anything, ever!
     
  27. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    TSW being "superior" is a matter of opinion. Of course DTG's whole game plan is to bring routes to TSW that TS1 players have been requesting for years is an obvious ploy to get people to migrate over to a sim that isn't fully proven. And unlikely to receive the editor that was promised before the first TSW was released.

    Another thing is. TSW is limited in a lot of ways that TS1 is not. You can easily produce longer routes in TS1, while TSW could support longer routes, it is only hampered by the fact that the basic features (like terrain data) of a route already take up a huge amount of HD/SSD space without all the other stuff needed to bring it to life. This is why we're getting routes that may take only 30-45 mins to traverse. Which doesn't give much replay value in comparison to many of the routes TS1 offers.

    To many of us that still gravitate more to TS1.. It's going to take more than shinier-looking trains to get us to migrate. While LIRR is available for TSW, which is something I've heavily advocated, and still do, for TS1... I can't find myself enjoying it much because TSW just isn't doing it. It doesn't represent the route, nor its operations very well. Other than it just being a high-fidelity product.
     
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  28. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Depends on who you're asking. The only reason TSW is as successful as it is, that it's a multiplatform product. The thing that holds it back, is the fact that it's a game that was created to give PC and Console players the same level of accessibility and functionality. So console players don't feel left out. As is, console consumers already complain about routes made for TS1 not made already for TSW. It's very clear that DTG wants to move on from the TS1, which is why their content offerings have slowed down significantly, and most of the content is either being done by 3rd party or being repackaged in twin packs.

    To be honest, I feel like DTG would be better off if they had some real competition out there, as strangely enough, despite a lot of the obvious and constant shortcomings is at the top. And usually, when one is at the top, they tend to feel less incentivized to strive to be better than they actually can be.
     
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  29. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Active Member

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    If TS classic was ever discontinued, I can see a TSW editor coming. The TS editor and all the 3rd party companys devloping for TS helps DTG in the way that it would draw more attention
     
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  30. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Until that happens, TSW will remain just a casual game. Honestly feel UE isn't the best for Simulation for anything Driving. Trains and busses alike. It doesn't handle lighting and motion blurring very well. Also audio limitations. I feel like DTG should have upgraded their base game engine or do something like what SCS (makers of ETS/ATS) has done with their own engine (Prism3D), or even somehow borrowed, make some sort of an agreement them, as their game worlds give off the perfect atmosphere that is unparalleled. If you ever played either of those titles.. and have seen the world environments each is based in, truly a work of art.

    I mean SCS is a company that does simulation right, or at least more than most, if not all other sim devs. If somehow SCS were to ever start (or even DTG ever collaborated with them) on a Train Sim game.. It's OVER!
     
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  31. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    It's highly unlikely an editor for routes will ever appear in TSW purely for the reason that it contains Epic software and tools that cannot be distributed to the general public. Said tools are only available to be used by licenced parties.
     
  32. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, I think the only time they did that was with Riviera Line In The Fifties... Although that was in TS2016, when DTG was possibly at its most toxic.
    I think both of them are in the 'never going to happen' bin. A bit like North Wales Coastal then...
    It has been noted by members of the 'community' that it is sort of possible, but DTG may not want to take a risk. Rather like how they don't let us share liveries because someone might put a My Little Pony on an ICE 3.
     
  33. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    They did it with TS20(?). Nürnberg - Regensburg. Or was that the deluxe edition?
     
  34. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I think it was in the base pack. I guess they've done it twice - although admittedly it had less effort put into it than the Riviera Line.
     
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  35. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    AIUI the big issue is that currently the only way to edit existing routes would require DTG to make their original (uncooked) files available to everyone. Since this would effectively give away their intellectual property (IP) then it's not going to happen quite apart from the fact those uncooked files are way larger than the cooked files that are downloaded in released products.
     
  36. spsimon285

    spsimon285 New Member

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    Thats why I wont buy it. And never will.
     
  37. spsimon285

    spsimon285 New Member

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    That is a Very Bad Design too. They should have updated the old engine.
     
  38. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - while jocular in nature, started an argument]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2021 at 12:43 AM
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  39. spsimon285

    spsimon285 New Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - continuing an argument]
     
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  40. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    [edit by Protagonist - removed argument-generating portion]

    That said, here's a sensible-ish thing for me to say. Unless you use the editor in TS frequently, refusing to buy TSW based on that one feature is your problem and not DTG's. The near-universal upgrades from TS to TSW make it quite disappointing that so many people have a personal vendetta against the game because of the absence of a feature fully used by only a very small community. I've said it before many times that the lack of a route editor is far less important to the majority of the players than the lack of a scenario editor, because the scenario editor is more usable by more players, and the majority of routes for TS created in the route editor are simply not worth any time, and even less will be routes that players consistently play. My enjoyment of Train Simulator is condensed to just a handful of routes, including Valley Corridor, Marsdonshire, Isle Of Wight Extension, Cresston and London Transport Heritage Collection/Phorum Peninsula. Only two of these are routes created by the public and released for free. And while I am developing my own route, most of my time is spent in the scenario editor, where I can do things I can't usually do.

    But you and many others in the rather unpleasant TS community (Undertale is trying hard to beat TS for toxicity) might be saying "But there are loads more scenarios than routes, so you don't make any sense. What nonsense! I thought you had something sensible to say!" And that is a fair criticism, but the proportion of good routes to good scenarios leans heavily in the scenarios' favour, and that is likely because a scenario can only be considered bad if it is unplayable, but a bad route comes in all shapes and sizes. Oakville Subdivision in TSW is a bad route, and not just because of yardgate. The route hasn't got much to look at, and the route is absolutely tiny. Compass Line, a Workshop route for TS, is a bad route because of its lack of scenery, although I can't help but like its novel concept. North Wales Coastal was a bad route for being an imitation of the real thing, rather than a recreation. But worst of all, Western Mainlines, a route with so much potential, is held back by using 2007 Kuju assets.

    So yes, the lack of a route editor and true scenario editor in TSW is disappointing. But in many ways it could be a blessing in disguise. After all, not being able to mod the game avoids this crime against humanity...
    capture34.JPG
    ...One that costs several hundred pounds. And people complain that needing to buy routes to use loco DLCs in TSW is anti-consumer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2021 at 12:45 AM
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  41. spsimon285

    spsimon285 New Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - continuing argument]
     
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  42. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    [edit by Protagonist - continuing arguing]

    In response to the signalling on Frankfurt to Koblenz, how certain are you and/or DTG that existing scenarios, both official and from the community, will work without issue after the update?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2021 at 12:46 AM
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  43. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - piling on isn't going to help]
     
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  44. spsimon285

    spsimon285 New Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - continuing argument]
     
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  45. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the mods should just close this thread now if the pair of you are just going to keep bickering. :(
     
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  46. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Active Member

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    Nah, it’s enough if they just clean the thread.
     
  47. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    I don't use the route editor much, but some people do and some of those publish their routes on the workshop.
    Building a route from scratch is some work, but altering a route (usually for a scenario), adding objects (Christmas tree, wayside people), or backdating, is completely valid and viable. Plus of course merging, extending...
    Those tools are available for scenarios. Often you'd want to create custom consists, stories, or stopping patterns not available in QD. Besides the Class 33 things I'm doing these months, 2-3 years ago I had a Canadian Mountain Passes session with CN, UP and a few BNSF trains mixed in.
    So the game as-is happens to be great for casuals (myself almost included), but some people care a lot more and are happy to invest.

    Then, the question is, given how much time TS can provide, it's easier to make a binary decision to not buy TSW.
    I did, and played 15 minutes. I totally want to. Around 2040, give or take a decade. You could say it was a practical mistake.
    While some friends of mine moved on and enjoy it very much.
     
  48. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Keep this on topic please.
     
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  49. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Member

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    For the most part it may work, however there is a chance that a scenario will break unfortunately (with the added crossovers and replacing signals, however hopefully it may be just a case of "tracks.bin" (the track file has changed, so you could just press F2 and cancel) . That being said though there is a chance if scenarios start around Frankfurt or Mainz Bischofsheim (mainly the yard) that scenarios may have routing issues (due to both being completely resignalled, in the case of the latter - signalled)

    (not technically official reply but I did "refresh" the frankfurt scenarios that come with the route (all but one had the "Tracks.bin" error - although they have had a couple of other fixes - but those were issues before the tracks were changed.
     
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  50. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Member

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    What does tracks.bin do? I've had an error in a couple of scenarios but when I F2 and cancel, there seems to be no impact.
     

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