Ts22 - The Fabulous F3

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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  2. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    Jamie the F3 dlc that just released is garbage! Let me bring up the very first steam review!

    "In short, no.

    This pack has plenty of faults and oversights that are simply not tolerable in 2022.

    I'll go over the few positives this pack has before going into detail about it's issues.

    Customisable Model - It's nice to have the option to customise things such as the gangways, sander caps and trucks. It really offers some variety so that no two F3s are the same.

    Amount of Liveries - To say there are a lot of liveries in this pack would be an understatement. We're even seeing roads we've never officially seen in TS before, like the MSTL, MoPac and MKT!

    Model - The modelling is pretty nice, a damsite better than the Kuju F7. Compared to the kuju F7 this one is a lot shorter, as it should be.

    Now onto the negatives.

    Textures - The textures in this pack are just awful. The trucks on the wagons look like they'd been painted white and incredibly polished. They stick out like a sore thumb, You can also see the axles rotating under the wagons extremely clearly due to the bake. The colours on the liveries are all over the place. The orange on western pacific is really dark, UP is a mustard colour and the orange on southern pacific just sticks out horribly. CNW suffers the same issue as UP, and CGW is just... wrong. The cabooses (cabeese?) are also ridiculously shiny, like a mirror. The weathering looks like someone took an air brush and just painted a small section, then repeated it over and over. This is especially noticeable on the MoPac one, as the fuel tanks are also weathered in the same way, meaning you get this weird effect of double weathering (it's kind of hard to explain).

    Headlights - The headlight flares on this are atrocious. Maybe for 2014 they would have been acceptable but they simply don't look good especially compared to the likes of searchlight who's flare actually look realistic. They have all sorts of strange lens effects coming off of them as well and it simply doesn't look good. The number boards also light infront of the numbers and bleed through the numbers, instead of lighting them up from behind. Not at all prototypical.

    Brakes - This loco features the "advanced brake script" by smokebox. Which, while good in concept is poorly executed here. For example, it has this feature of "tactile detents", which is designed to help you use the brakes. However it just gets annoying. For example, if you're about to reach a speed decrease and need to slow down, you'd apply the brakes (naturally). But the problem is they latch on and they get stuck in position. Meaning you have to let go for a few seconds, then re-apply. This is obviously not prototypical and incredibly annoying.

    Audio - The sounds on this thing are from 2012, and do not sound accurate to an EMD 567 prime mover at all. Some new recordings are sorely needed as the ones used here are a farcry from acceptable. The joint sounds are incredibly hollow and the flange is just deafening. The bell is the same as pretty much every other EMD from DTM and the horn is the same Wabco E2 as we've seen on almost every DTM DLC since the SW1200, and it has a horrible loop.

    Cab - The cab on this thing is just... eugh. It's ridiculously shiny and none of the gauges are labelled. The chair is just a solid colour with no texturing whatsoever (come on, even the kuju F7 had that!)

    Features - Outside of having opening doors and windows, and the aforementioned model customisations and brake scripts, there are no unique features in this pack. Not a single one. Kind of funny how they put this in the description: "highly realistic features"

    The words realistic, and this pack repel each other like magnets and don't exactly attract if you spend time modifying it.

    I give this thing a 15% score. Avoid it at all costs, even with a deep discount"
    This is aggravating DTM!
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  3. hayward.john48

    hayward.john48 Well-Known Member

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    The liveries might be numerous but they are all and only UP family, not the only Railroad in the US.
     
  4. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    That's not the point. The point is that DTG made another horrible dlc AGAIN!. Wouldn't you be outraged if you were hyped for something that DTG was planning on releasing and promising all these wonderful things that the dlc would have, and then have your heart slam into your digestive tract when you actually buy the dlc and see that they lied to you and that it's absolutely horrible? Wouldn't you be furious?!
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  5. hayward.john48

    hayward.john48 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not disagreeing with your review just adding to it. Don’t shoot me I’m aggrieved as well.
     
  6. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    DTG didn't make the DLC, DTM did, of course, it did pass DTGs quality control.
     
  7. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Also you blind? upload_2022-3-10_18-24-13.png Dev is DTM
    Releaser of the product to steam is DTG
     
  8. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    Oh okay sorry for the confusion then.
     
  9. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    Don't worry no friendly fire is taking place.
     
  10. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    Sorry for the confusion. I seemed to forget DTM still makes stuff. I'm just so used to DTG making horrible content.
     
  11. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Member

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    I think some chill pills are in order here. OK so there are a few tweaks that need to be made here and there but when was the last time anyone put out this huge group of choices for this price? If some things need to be cleaned up a little bit fine or are some of you too busy screaming and gnashing your teeth to fix anything you don't care for. It still looks like a great model.
    There is a sound update for this that will be out any minute. DTM had a computer malfunction that set the sound mode back. Why they didn't wait I don't know but I already have it installed here. In any event it's a lot easier to scream than to create so if that's your choice just turn it back in until some things get cleaned up.
     
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  12. Smokebox

    Smokebox Active Member

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    Here's the reply I made on the review's complaint about the brakes:
    "Shift Ctrl 3 disables the tactile notches on the brake handles. Apart from making it easier to use the RailDriver with the loco, this feature also helps those who can't quite get used to the feel of the detents."
    In addition, the brake-related pop-up messages can be toggled on/off by pressing Shift Ctrl B.
     
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  13. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    No, no, no, no, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO AND [removed - language - JD] NO! There aren't "a few tweaks that need to be made" There are A LOT "of tweaks that need to be made." Realistically, I never usually complain about content for train sim unless it annoys me or is horrible. This is the first time I was even disgusted with a Train Simulator dlc, let alone vouching for a user on Steam. This is exactly why people complain to DTG, because DTG's expectations are far too low to the point where "quality content" isn't even a thing anymore. No it just went with the wind. Come on people! We're talking about Train Simulator here! This isn't some game you can play on Android. This is a PC GAME ONLY and we're getting content for it that's not even anywhere close to the things the content is trying to historically represent. Sure I know licensing can be huge issue when it comes to certain liveries and whatnot, but DTG doesn't even try to reach out to certain developers to request that the third-party devs' content contain more quality and true-to-life realism. Is that too much to ask for DTG knowing they've screwed us over in the past?
     
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  14. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    And really? Who [removed - language - JD] cares about the price? In fact, the prices should be way lower if DTG is publishing this [removed - language - JD] without first thinking about the reviews the dlc is going to get. Do you know many people are expecting to be impressed by this dlc right now? Most likely billions of US residents who play this game. No one's going to want pay for dlc if it's not really worth the money. The user even warned against buying it when it's on sale. Do you know how embarrassing that would look on DTG? They're the ones publishing this LOVE and allowing it into the game. There needs to be more than a sound update. How about the actual textures. They we're okay in the screenshots. But to the user, oh no were they horrible. The audio is garbage, the flare is agonizing (well I could care less about the lights either way, they look pretty cool to me, but still), the rollingstock sound is off the hook, and the locos don't even sound like the real thing. BTW, I'm not angry. If anything I'm heavily disappointed, but I was expecting this to be a total fail. How do you mistakenly forget to use the planned audio instead of garbage audio from 2012? That's just not possible unless you're not focused or paying attention. But still I'm not mad, just disappointed. Plus I'm saying what many customers are probably thinking right now wondering why the same 2012 audio files are being used for a dlc made in 2022 and even better why this isn't a pro range dlc instead of a traditional dlc.
     
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  15. DrTrenchcoat

    DrTrenchcoat Well-Known Member

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    to be frank, that's a load of rubbish and you know it, don't be disingenuous. If you want examples of product that contain many variants for that price point while being far higher quality:
    https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/rolling_stock/locomotive2/class_90-mk3_dvt_pack https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/rolling_stock/dmu_rs/class_142_diesel_multiple_unit_pack https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/rolling_stock/emu_rs/class_313_electric_multiple_unit_pack https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/rolling_stock/emu_rs/class_456_electric_multiple_unit_pack
    https://virtual-railroads.de/de/expertline/236-db-br218-vrot-expertline.html
    -edit, some additional ones:
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/...twick_Express_BR_Class_460_Juniper_EMU_AddOn/ two whole locomotives :o
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1637258/Train_Simulator_New_Zealand_DJ_Loco_Pack/
    Aside from that, numbers does not make quality, a number of RWA quality skins does not a $20 product make.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  16. hayward.john48

    hayward.john48 Well-Known Member

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    Bilions of US residents? The total population of the USA is a little over 300 million so how do you get to billions. Exaggeration is a sure way of undermining your case, it makes any point you have made seem to be yet “another” exaggeration.
     
  17. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Exactly this. DTM needs to improve soon or he is going to lose customers. There is so much wrong with this pack its apalling and it makes me wonder if it was even tested at all.
     
  18. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    And scream? Well we all have every right to. How long have we been getting [edited - JD - language] content from DTM and DTG? Far too long and I'm only two and half years into Train Simulator. I've read all the reviews and seen a YouTuber review some of his purchased dlcs. Even he is disgusted with half of the previously released content from 2021. The most annoying example being the NS SD70M which was alright, but could have been a lot better. Then there was the GP9s which all had the same horn and even worse had inaccurate engine sounds. Really? A malfunction is not enough to even qualify as an excuse for an equally [edited - JD - language] dlc quality TS users have been getting pretty much every year. It's 2022. It's 2012 anymore. Why does it take Searchlight Simulations just to make some quality content? Then there was the Norfolk Southern SD70 Aces and the SD70 Volume 2. Horrible dlcs. Good for some freight runs, yes. Good overall? NO!
     
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  19. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Great model is a relative term. To me those textures utterly ruin any chance of this model being enjoyable to me.
     
  20. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    Sorry I don't really focus on the population, but I'm not exaggerating. I'm telling the truth. Why don't you go try some of the dlcs mentioned and tell me if I'm "exaggerating"? I'm not exaggerating. DTG and DTM are horrible and so are their dlcs.
     
  21. hayward.john48

    hayward.john48 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t buy it then.
     
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  22. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    That mentality would work well if desire wasn't a thing.
    For example I love F3s and was really looking forward to this pack. Then i realised it was terrible and was severely disappointed.
     
  23. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Member

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    I changed my mind. [edited (JD) - antagonistic] Just move on and leave the rest of us alone.
     
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  24. raildriver2

    raildriver2 New Member

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    [edited (JD) - antagonistic]
     
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  25. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Ah damn, almost forgot i wasn't allowed an opinion on something paid good money for.
    People often forget the customer is just as important as the merchant in a business environment. It's supposed to be a mutually beneficial endeavour, not "give us money and be grateful for what you get"
     
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  26. DrTrenchcoat

    DrTrenchcoat Well-Known Member

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    last time I checked, you're the only one personally insulting folks, might wanna look in your mirror before you start saying people should be institutionalised.
     
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  27. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Just bought it because for 14€ it offers a lot. Ok, the sounds... I mean if you have a decent collection of stock, it's no big deal swapping the sounds. (Btw what I like about Run8 is the option to configure your own horn sounds for each loco- no flaming please ;)).

    The textures - I was expecting that before and warned in the Announcement thread, it is typical DTM style.

    The driver seats in the cab are positioned too far outside, I've immediately adjusted cab camera X to 0.95/-0.95. Where's the driver supposed to put his right leg? Must hurt...
    1.png


    First thing I looked into was the couplers, they used the proper parameters here (150/0/0.1/0.05/15000/12000/2.89134e+006) :)
     
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  28. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    seat textures stand out right away
    even the kuju f7 had better textures than that :(
     
  29. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Exactly this ^
     
  30. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I would have preferred more time be spent on creating one or two good liveries. Reskinners can easily make reskins based on them. It's only worth it if they are good. Which do you prefer?
    • Several liveries that all have the same basic fundamental problem
    • One or two good liveries with very few, if any, problems
    Reskinners can reskin a good model with few issues, and there's some value added by the community to justify a purchase (and frankly, it's too bad DTG can't bring up community content as a form of value without breaking their own licenses, but I completely understand the reason and don't ask for them to do this). But if the pack is bad to start with, reskinners won't be interested, or will be forced to spend more time making the reskin actually look good.

    To be fair, I have yet to play the pack. I'm just trying to inject some thought here.
     
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  31. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Member

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    Dare I ask have you explored any of the ones already out there?
     
  32. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Any of the what?
     
  33. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Member

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    F3's.
     
  34. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Yes, I have. They're either ridiculously awful or bodged F7s.
     
  35. buzz4567

    buzz4567 Member

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    Wow. I think I'm done here. [edited (JD) - antagonistic]
     
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  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Hold on a second. He said the previous F3s are basically bad edits of F7s within the game environment. He didn't attack or insult you. He gave his opinion on a product. If that is bad, then I have a bank account in your name with 36,000,000,000 naira...

    I'm going to suggest a mod possibly lock this or clean this up at this point. Hate to do it in an announcement thread, but this has degenerated pretty quickly. [EDIT: I have modified my post to remove edited antagonistic references and my replies as such.]
     
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  37. LPSimulation

    LPSimulation Member

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    Evidently that includes yourself
     
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  38. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Well, this has been an interesting day.
     
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  39. GildenSpikeRailVideos

    GildenSpikeRailVideos Member

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    [removed - antagonistic - JD]. People have the full right to dislike something, especially if they are going to purchase it, or already purchased it. [removed - antagonistic - JD]. If you simply disagreed kindly, this situation would not exist.
     
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  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Guys...please. We don't need fighting here. You're no better if you have to engage in a back and forth. (And frankly, it makes the community look really bad.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  41. 777Gaming

    777Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Just another day on the forums...
     
  42. 777Gaming

    777Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Also, I kinda feel like the U.S. has been getting the short end of the stick recently in higher quality DLC, excluding the Big Boy and GTEL's. Case and point, none of these are American, and some of them are pretty recent. It's just annoying. I was really excited for the SD45-2 a couple months ago as I like anything SBD, but then it turned out to be a huge let down in quality.
     
  43. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    This has descended into a slanging match, so I've removed antagonistic comments. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but please, play nice with each other and respect that right to an opinion. We will otherwise be forced to lock the thread.
     
  44. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    It's easy for you to say that. But because Train Simulator is restricted to PC only, it's hard to avoid buying anything for it. Are we supposed to just buy stuff and move on? No. We're not. We're supposed to be enjoying what we're buying, but we don't half the time. We expect quality content when we buy stuff for Train Simulator, and yet our expectations are literally thrown out the window. I had to ask Schnauzahpowahz on YouTube to give me and the rest of his viewers his two cents on the dlc. I could literally hear the disappointment in his tone of voice as he was reviewing the F3 dlc. Now I'm not going to lie, the textures do look okay. To me, color means everything. I'm easily convinced with bright colors and odd shapes when it comes to train simulator. Sounds also mean everything. And he even explains his disappointment with the dlc. Let me link the video to show you gus. You guys will love his videos trust me. .

    Now again, the textures are okay. The audio is not. That's not a good EMD 567 Cylinder. That's a garbage 2012 567 cyl. I do kind of like the horns, but the horns need some more push to them. I also loved the appearance of the rollingstock. But it could have been a lot better than it was. It makes me wonder if DTM should even be allowed to make addons for Train Simulator if that's what they believe quality looks like. It makes me wonder if DTG should even be the publisher if that's how they define quality. Quality is everything. The tiny details that don't matter, but really add to the authenticity of the locomotive and rollingstock is something I want to see and something I define as quality. Being able to mess with every switch on a locomotive and have the switches do different things on the locomotive (like raising and lowering the height of your seat or turning on the fans/ac, stuff like that) and even the big stuff that's important and vital to the locomotive's performance, condition, and operation. I want to really feel like an engineer, not feel like I'm playing some arcade game. This is supposed to be a simulation game. And sims usually have top-notch quality. Are we supposed to wait for Pro Range locos then?
     
  45. hayward.john48

    hayward.john48 Well-Known Member

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    If I don’t like a dlc or don’t want it I don’t buy it, nothing hard or difficult about it for example I have no interest in US east coast emus of any kind nor do I want a load of British emus. I just don’t buy them and if the liveries of a loco is not what I want I don’t buy it. No one is compelled to buy anything and disappointment is part of life as is constructive calm critique.
    You live your life, I’ll live mine.
     
  46. DrTrenchcoat

    DrTrenchcoat Well-Known Member

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    thing is, that only really works when you don't care about it, I'm not really interested in 21st century british stuff for example. I (and presumably itstypicalrailfanner16) would really like a good F3, this is not something I'm not interested about, I am in fact quite interested in having a quality first gen diesel in TS, and with each of these unfinished DTM releases that gets further away.
     
  47. itstypicalrailfanner16

    itstypicalrailfanner16 Active Member

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    I'm actually interested in everything for Train Simulator. So long as the dlcs are enjoyable and are true-to-life.
     
  48. Gary Dolzall

    Gary Dolzall Well-Known Member

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    Given that DTM has, for over a decade, produced excellent content which has provided years of enjoyment to thousands of members of the TS community, I'd say the community, collectively, has very clearly answered your question through its long, continuous, and tangible support of DTM.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
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  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I had no idea you even had an account here, Gary. Greetings.
     
  50. Gary Dolzall

    Gary Dolzall Well-Known Member

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    Hello and thanks Cyclone. Yes, I do have an account here and as my "stats" show, I occasionally post. Unfortunately, the fact that a small handful of individuals often try to (and do) dominate the discussion here with unfounded negativity of the type I felt obligated to response to above, generally leaves me with little desire to visit. There is a clear line between constructive criticism and blatant (even vulgar) insults and that line, sadly, is regularly crossed here by a few.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
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