Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Oct 3, 2022.
So I guess the 158 is the S&C/LtoM one just with new AP sounds?
No I think it's the AP EP version but consolidated to just one livery and not requiring anything else.
The AP EP version is based on the 159
The 158 and 159 are effectively the same train, which is why AP used it for the 158/159 EP.
Not really, it is explained quite clearly in the writeup for the EPs on Armstrong's site that they use the 159 due to the way it's sounds are set up, the 158's sounds are set up different
Will the 158 have correct physics? i.e. Notches 1 to 6 don’t just work as a speed cap, even if running downhill?
That depends on if the AP 158 is like that or not.
What I'm interested to know is with the AP 158, I'm guessing it's not the full AP 158 EP, but rather the regional railways one from the 158 EP - similar to how they did the NSE Class 205, GEML Class 90, GEML Class 315 and London Overground Class 313 - they are individual bits of stock from their respective EPs.
Well they did the 170 for Wherry Lines which sadly suffers from this very same phenomenon, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
The Steam Wherry Lines 170 as far as I know is the same as the Thomson one from many years before. DTG also used thay model for Fife Circle.
Because the old one was obviously made by someone who had never actually seen a class 87.
Anyhow the $64k question is… Will we get to see an animated Felix and Bolt patrolling the platforms at Huddersfield? We need to know!
That would be fab
Also just pondering, as I added this to my Wishlist, why there is no pre-order option for this on Steam (with possible discount)? In fact Steam doesn't even list the selling price currently.
Only seven scenarios though, this is my point about TSC vs. TSW, all that effort into making the route and the stock pack yet all the developer can provide is a handful of activities...
Don't worry, within 24 hours of release, the third party scenarios will start appearing, including working time table ones, and they are always better than the supplied ones.
A comment on the 158 and 159. I don't know if the 158 is the original one from package 24024 (BTW, original Class 66 is 24023, with the RSDL 08 at 24022 and Isle of Wight at 24020 - TS history, folks), but I know the 159 is the newer of the trains out there in any case and, as stated, is indeed what AP used. I have researched the manual and imagine the train has the same functionality; however, being meant as a piece of 90s stock, the GSM-R (listed in AP's manual as a 2013 thing) is completely absent, so don't worry about having to check signal numbers to program yourself on the path.
Want to add to this. There is a Wherry 2.0 update that is compatible with the Steam version of the route. It installs all 25 scenarios from the AP version with updated stock. Be aware those versions require the 37 and 170 and such from his site, not the DTG ones. The original 20 remain in the Career tab.
Regarding TPE, would it make sense for DTG to be the publisher for the ATS Class 185 and Chat Moss route on steam. Could be a work around if DTG has a license problem.
It wouldn't be up to DTG though - ATS would have to ask for it to be on Steam via DTG (I don't think that'll happen though but that's just personal opinion )
In an ideal world all DLC would be on Steam, but it's never going to happen.
So, a replica of the modern route, so, nothing like the TSW version, then, no Leeds Holbeck Depot, or, Manchester Red Bank Sidings, or anything else from the 1980s, for us freight fans, and added variety in our consists?? If not, then, how boring......
And the rolling stock is a mishmash of stuff we already have from other routes, it looks like the Class 08 with red axle boxes and rods from Woodhead BR Blue DLC, and the Class 03 from the BR Blue Pack 01, plus everything else from years gone by and including GUV Parcels and Newspaper vans, but, if Red Bank Sidings aren't on the layout, then, why bother including those.....
Indeed Steve. The 142 and 158 also already exist within the game and the only thing that could possibly pique my interest is if, as previously stated, they have moved away from the incorrect Voith physics. I just did a couple of runs in TSW on NTP, one a stock changeover between Red Bank and Victoria and back and now into a Class 45 hauled express over to Leeds on a very stormy afternoon. Looks and sounds great and even just within Journey Mode there are multiple times more scenarios and timetable runs than are coming with the TSC version. So unless this is coming in at a budget price, sadly one I probably will now be leaving on the shelf as I really see no advantage over what I’ve already got.
I don't know what you think of the AP 158s and if they have the correct physics but this 158 is from AP
Not everyone wants a route from the 1970s/80s.
There are a lot of people playing the game now who have no memory of the railway from then.
I’m with Steve. The frequency of the passenger trains through Mirfield now is higher than in the 1980s but all short trains except for an 802 each way per hour and a 68 set each way per hour (sometimes). Freight is a tiny fraction of that in the 1980s and if not for Drax would be even less. No point in GUVs when there’s no parcels or newspaper traffic and the Red Bank empties train was the longest non freight on the line.
Not sure if I've got theirs's in my collection, so as I say will be curious to see if they avoided the speed setter trap with Notches 1 to 6. As I said, the 170 on their Wherry Lines suffers from this effect.
The SOUNDS are from AP, the 158 looks to be the one from Liverpool - Manchester
Which means it probably has the flawed physics…
I guess we'll see some hours from now
Except it's not - it's based onthe 159 (which funny enough though the Liverpool Manchester one too was based on - so technically not wrong )
There is a good excuse now for them to bring both to Steam. The 185 and Chat Moss are two extremely useful things to have on Steam for the eventual route merge they might be able to get going. Up to Guide Bridge from Manchester needs a rework, the stretch to STalybridge is not yet represented, and the rest is merged - potentially even Longsight. And the 185 scenarios can then also be in the Workshop. The slimmed down package can be accompanied by a reskin pack on their own site to add to the Steam add-on, too. I mean, it makes business sense to me.
Danny answered this already, but the EP is based on the 159 and not the 158 itself.
But ATS might not wish to bring them to Steam.
Currently the 185 is £26.99 and Chat Moss is £26.99 but then you need to buy the OHLE pack bringing the whole lot to over £60 - all of which goes in the ATS coffers.
Put it on Steam and they will want a part of that and they would have to market the Chat Moss Route with the OHLE increasing the overall price to nearer to £36 and that is without the 185.
And I don't see whoever built the route making a version that would connect to the DTG version of Manchester - Leeds.
They don't need an excuse, they require a business justification. Steam are definitely not a charity.
I'd think it'd generally depend on various factors:
1) DTG see that a producer has a product that is very attractive, and is seen as "missing" in the "official collection" (as some see it) on Steam
2) Some people like the advantage of having things on Steam due to the ease of updating, reinstalling
3) The producer thinks they can reach a larger audience via Steam
4) By distributing via DTG and Steam, dependencies that would otherwise need to pe purchased/downloaded separately, can be included directly with the product
As stated previously, the 158 is directly lifted from the AP 158/159 EP. While it shares the same basic model as the DTG/S9BL Class 158, the functionality is very different.
Still not getting an answer to my very specific question, as I haven't got the AP 158 in any previous guise. Do the throttle notches work correctly or do they act as a speed set in 1 - 6, even slowing the train down on a falling gradient?
The AP 158 includes a complete and accurate engine and transmission simulation so you'll find the throttle response is variable as you'd expect it to be depending on grade, weather, etc.
And subsequently, there are a lot of players in this game who do, so, what is your argument? You personally should know that as an ex-railwayman yourself from BR days. Surely, DTG should be offering us more VARIETY, otherwise it gets boring with linear a-b routes with no diversity, etc, and customers will just take their money elsewhere, not a very good business acumen.
I fully agree.
In the real world this route has virtually no freight traffic. About once a month Railfreight swops its engines between Crewe Basford Hall and Holbeck (via Healey Mills) usually via Standedge and there is an occasional Railtrack Works train that goes as far as Standedge tunnel from Doncaster via Healey Mills. All other freight uses the line from Healey Mills - Brighouse route all except the Tank train goes via Rochdale, the Tank train going via Copy Pit to Preston. Only empty traffic goes via Manchester Victoria as the loaded Drax trains divert around to avoid the bank out of Victoria. So where does the freight run on this route? - Mirfield East Junction (Ravensthorpe) to Heaton Lodge, not much fun there is there.
Oh, and I have purchased the route but don't see me using it a lot.
The "trap" you refer to (throttle lever acting as a speed set) is never to be seen in any AP product. The 170 bundled with the Steam release of the Wherry line is clearly not "truly" by AP. Try the 170 EP
You seem to think that DTG should only release routes & trains from the 60s to the 80s.
And if they don't the "customers will just take their money elsewhere"
What about those people who have no interest in routes from that era?
You say customers will take their money elsewhere - that also applies to those customers who buy modern routes/trains.
There are a lot of people who have never seen a 37, 40, 47 or a Deltic on the mainline - apart from Railtours
If you don't like the Manchester - Leeds route then fine. Somebody will backdate it on the Workshop or elsewhere.
Steve was only expressing his opinion and I cannot see that he expressed the view that
Personally I am sick to the back teeth of London Suburban routes but I choose not to buy not complain about it. If no one ever expresses their preference we shall always get the same thing over and over and one of the great things about TSC is the "Variety". It shouldn't be up to the community all the time to bring that variety. I prefer 60s - 80s solely because there was more variety in rolling stock, not so much in liveries but certainly in traffic. The point on this route is why introduce it with 80s stock when it is clearly set not in the 20th century but after 2010.
That is good (actually great) to know and thanks to both yourself and Steve for confirming. Route now definitely on my radar for a purchase at some point.
Confused.com. Huddersfield Line. Support says that all the contents are downloading and reviews left by players on Steam are saying not all locos are downloading. Can anyone please confirm please.
Have purchased this evening and can confirm everything downloaded that should have, Route + All Rolling Stock, perfectly. There were issues yesterday evening which have now been fixed. Those Steam reviews were posted before DTG had chance to fix which credit given where due did not take them long to sort out.
Thank you very much for the reply. It is appreciated.
Purchased this afternoon, have everything but cannot find the BR 03 Blue Shunter anywhere? I have the '08' available for quick drive and also the '09' from I think the South Wales route but cannot see the Class 03 BR Blue Shunter!
So was WCML over Shap but it was released with BR Blue locos and stock. No Virgin License for the trains that did run.
And for the same reason - DTG do not have a license for TPE or Northern so do you not release the route.
The point I was getting at in my other post was Steve seemed to think that if DTG did not make stuff for the 1960-1980s period then "customers will just take their money elsewhere".
The same apples if DTG just made routes from that time period then people who have no interest in that era they would "just take their money elsewhere"
You and Steve would prefer a version set in the 1970s I guess - I wonder how long it would be before it is backdated to that time period on the Workshop or elsewhere. It has already happened with a number of routes available
Interesting unless I need to go to Specsavers but I can't see the Class 03 in the manual.
LOL. It was shown on Steam last week listing the rolling stock coming with this route.
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