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Tsw 2 – Building The Tgv Duplex

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
    In our second developer feature, we find out more about the star of LGV Méditerranée.

    Read the full article here.
     
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  2. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Duplex definitely looks interesting, even the scenery is more populated and closer to the final product than in the first article. Some very interesting details in the article about the unit. One downside, however, seems to be that the train actually comes with only one livery, no OuiGo and most importantly no Atlantique livery... seems like a missed opportunity in this already limited variety.
     
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  3. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Active Member

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    I flip between such a beautiful French train and very little content( + price
     
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  4. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    But it’s 93 Kilometer the longest route in TSW
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  5. BjornGroen02NL

    BjornGroen02NL Well-Known Member

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    In that regard it is somewhat the same as RT and LIRR when those routes just released. Only one train with one livery.

    Still though, this one does look detailed and it is a new country, so I will definitely buy this route. Also it will be the longest route in the game, that on its own is already an achievement for DTG. I can't wait to drive on it, and learn the French signalling system :)
     
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  6. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Active Member

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    Longest route with empty 90+ km fields. No, thanks))
     
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  7. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    So you put 25000V catenary in the Marseille area instead of 1500V... so disapointing, and you use the 1500V pantograph under 25000V in the Avignon screenshot but only one per unit is up. Under 25000V, only the rear 25000V pantograph of each unit should be up but under 1500V the 2 1500V pantograph per unit should be up so 4 in Multiple Unit.
     
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  8. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Well-Known Member

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    Mashed up, you're not tired of never being happy

    WIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP !!!!!
     
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  9. masse2

    masse2 New Member

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    Images displayed in this article may depict content that is still in development.
     
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  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Disappointing to see DTG use a basic, generic looking and incorrect OLE models for the selected areas. Even TS1 did it better..

    Also, anyone saying that they’ll change the models of the OLE, more fool you. Just look at how the Bakerloo Line turned out with the WIP shots. Nothing changed despite there being a fairly active discussion about it.
     
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  11. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    Well we all know they won't change that before the release they would have to rebuild it entirely...
     
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  12. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Well-Known Member

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    Are you funny, do you really think they will do it all again to please you? I think you shouldn't just buy this line.
    Do you have the game?
    If not then you are wasting your time and if so, I think you should not buy this line just because it will never be good enough for you.
     
  13. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    Oh Zawal still the same, I'm glad you left the other forums. And is it too much to ask for a minimum of realism in a game that is supposed to be a simulator? I'm just trying to help them correcting some mistakes that's it.
     
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  14. Max1116

    Max1116 New Member

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    What a pity to see so many errors with the catenary and the management of pantographs. Catenary makes the charm of the French network, with the famous war between 1500V vs 25000V (like the console war). The TGV 3d is very beautiful, but this is the only positive point shown at the moment.

    To help you :
    In 1500V there is one pantograph per engine used. So two by TGV and four with a TGV train.
    [​IMG]
    TGV Duplex in 1500V configuration ↑


    In 25000V, there is only one pantograph per TGV, that of the rear engine. The pantograph of the front engine is therefore lowered. This gives only one pantograph per TGV. If the train has 2 TGVs, there are 2 pantographs, one for each TGV.
    [​IMG]
    TGV Duplex in 25000V configuration ↑

    I speak here only of the Normal position (N on the selector).


    I hope that the final rendering will be there because many people are impatiently awaiting this DLC!
     
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  15. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy too, but I see that you follow me everywhere I am.
    In short at the moment you are not helping you denigrate as usual of course.
    I knew if DTG put out an FR line we would see you all coming.
    I'm MDR, 3 years that you "spoil" the game but anyway you will buy it right ?.

    I wish you a good evening, don't mind me because you're wasting your time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  16. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's fair to say, that while we don't expect a 100% accurate representation of every system of every train, it's required for this title (or DLC) to be taken seriously that at least the normal operations and widely used systems are recreated as well as possible, the centenary and what pantographs should be selected, signalling and safety systems are an extremely important part of this route, as it will be for SE HS, and every other piece of DLC.

    Honestly I was going to buy this at midnight after launch, but now I'm not that sure about it anymore.
     
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    They came for the trains, they went home because of the catenary. “It was slightly different, Mavis. It’s ruined my day.”

    As for putting the wrong pantograph up for a preview screenshot, how very dare they. If I were being naughty I would suggest that they have put the wrong panto up just to annoy certain people. It’s much more likely that an artist who doesn’t know which pantograph to use has placed the model of the train in a nice looking part of the route just for a marketing shot. As long as the correct ones are used when the route is operational who cares if the early screenshot is wrong.
     
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  18. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that sounds about right, it would be strange for them to mess that up, they got the Br185.5 right IIRC that was multi system as well, never tried to use the ICE3M in any other configuration rather than the german one.

    Anyway I think this shows how much people expect the route to be already a disaster weeks before launch...
     
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  19. Wenel

    Wenel Member

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    Hello everyone, et hello Dovetail Games.

    So, let me first introduce myself, i'm actually a TGV Driver in the french depot of Lyons for SNCF and it's a real pleasure to see this French symbol coming in the new game Train Sim World 2. I'm also glad to see that you still looking for building french addons since the LGV Marseille-Avignon with the iconic TGV Duplex released on Train Simulator for TS17.

    Working daily with the TGV Duplex especially with the 200/29000 series, I would like to tell you some wrong details showed in Work In Progress screenshots.
    I'm really aware that those screenshots are about an addon currently in development but i think it's the good time to show you what is wrong, to not release a product and recept some bad judgements.


    *I'm going to first talk about this one:
    [​IMG]
    I first noticed about scenery and about OHLE. I think this screenshot is actually at Marseille and as I can see there are 25 Kv OHLE.
    As you can see below and hopefully as you know, in France we have 2 type of overhead lines. The 1,5 kv and the 25 kv, the first one was installed before 50s and even if Marseille was electrified in 1962 there are here 1,5 kv not 25kv. I don't know if TSW2 let trains recognise which overhead line is used but it is here actually wrong about Overhead lines and poles.

    overhead line.jpg
    Actually Marseille to the entry of the LGV is in 1,5 kv than the high speed section is in 25 kv.

    Next thing is about the coupling systems of TGVs (the scharfenberg/schaku). On the screenshot I see the TGV n°214 with red headlights. Nothing bad about that, I just wanna say that it is correct when those 2 TGVs are uncoupled (electric connection is uncouple on the screen). I'm just wondering about this screenshot if the TGV are couple or not.




    [​IMG]
    *About this screenshot at Avignon TGV it is here the wrong pantograph. This pantograph is used for 1,5 kv, the one used for 25 kv is the one not raised just beside on the right of this screenshot.
    1,5 kv is with the big bow and 25 kv the one more tighter.

    When the TGV is in 1,5 kv with the selector on N(ormal) the two locomotive raise her 1,5 pantographs because of the high electrical intensity in 1,5 kv.
    Below the 25kv overhead lines the TGV only use one pantograph, the small one in the rear locomotives.
    Same for 2 TGVs coupled, 4 pantographs in 1,5 kv and only 2 in 25 kv.


    I know that's a lot of details and the french systems and the french trains are not that easy, but I hope could help a bit about the development of this fantastic train.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  20. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Well-Known Member

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  21. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Excuse my ignorance, but how do you switch between the 1.5kV and 25kV pantographs? I don't think you do it on the move... it's one of those obvious thing for many but I never understood how they work. Do you even change what pantograph is up?
     
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  22. Jimmy Armstrong Sim

    Jimmy Armstrong Sim New Member

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    To switch from 1.5kv to 25kv and vice-versa ; you need to open the circuit breaker, lower the pantograph, change the selector, raise the pantograph, then you can close the circuit breaker. It can be made on the move without problems.
     
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  23. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Great, interesting I didn't think it could be made on the move
     
  24. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Interesting about the Simugraph and the different voltages. I was looking on the HUDs in the ICE 3M last week and found the screen where you can choose which voltage to use, so i guess that must have been inoperable on that train but is now possible. This is something I find interesting about TSW - it seems the progress and development of what is possible happens at such a pace that it makes older releases age quite fast. I guess that is why they had to leave NEC behind, it was just too far back in terms of development to carry on.

    I have in the past described this route as a test-bed and I think some of the items in here support that view, there are lots of firsts here that will be useful inthe future content but also will be lacking in older content. The preserved team has a big role to play going forward to use these new capabilities to refresh old content and keep things alive for everyone. I am sure DTG don't really want to go through another TSW2 type of transition as it seemed they didn't realise how much of a pain the preserved content would be, so they have to make sure the new tech is backwards compatible, not an easy task.
     
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  25. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I just hope the good pantograph will be used when it will come out because raising the 1.5KV DC panto under 25KV AC the engine goes KABOUM. Since it’s the 200 series I hope this time it will have the real enginesound unlike the big mistake you did with the TGV Réseau
     
  26. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Can't wait to control the TGV Duplex with over 300 kph speed and it's 4 safety systems. I'm very curious about the French signallingsystem too. It's very nice that we will get stuff from a 5th country. And later with the Arosa line from a 6th.
     
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  27. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    Actually it MUST be made on the move because the train has to go from a section in 1500V to a section in 25kV (or the other way around) with a neutral section in the middle so the train must be moving to go from one to the other.
     
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  28. Wenel

    Wenel Member

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    You can do it both
    - when the train is stop
    - when the train is moving with a neutral section between 1,5 kv and 25kv like Jimmy said.
    You can saw this on this video with the procedure that Jimmy described:

    It's between Lyon and St Quentin-Fallavier with the switch from 1,5 kv to 25kv on the Grenoble line.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  29. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Very nice and detailed feedback. I'd like to ask based on a couple of videos I've seen the engineers seem to be switching between 25kV and something they call "25kV LGV mode" based on their speed (at 15 minutes in the video above in Wenel's comment). Can you tell us more about this?
     
  30. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The responses on here show that people are genuinely interested in things such as getting the pantograph and overhead line equipment accurate, as it’s all part of the simulation and isn’t just ‘to make it look nice’.

    As seen in the photos above, they show a variety of different designs based on voltages and usage and visually they can look quite impressive.

    However it seem DTG almost just see’s it like a wire attached to a stick, with no consideration as to how it looks or functions in real life. Just a ‘that’ll do’ attitude. Also, we STILL don’t have support for neutral sections. Like, seriously?

    I hope this opens their eyes for future overhead electric routes as all of their modelling so far for AC overhead wire routes have been subpar.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  31. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    25 KV LGV is to set the pantograph in a certain height so it won’t move that much because of the high speed
     
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  32. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    On 25kV LGV mode, the pantograph is "locked" at 5.08 meters as the OLE on LGVs is at a constant height of 5.08 meters
     
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  33. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much I don't know why but I always assumed that lowering or raising the pantograph could not be done on the move, as I said not sure why... maybe because I've never seen it done so of course if I never saw it means it's not possible ahahah.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  34. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    You've got to admit though, that is one good looking train! :)

    That just might be the one thing I'm looking forward to with this DLC. The TGV Duplex looks stunning in that livery!
    All the weathering and specks of dirt along the front bumper are a nice touch too!
     
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  35. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    Still looking great. Although I honestly don’t care about the overhead wires being wrong in some places, I hope they can fix that, and so far that seems to be the only error. This is shaping up to be a good route, definitely going to buy this, but perhaps not until I see somebody playing it. At least if the sounds are wrong I won’t know, since I have no experience with the train.
     
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  36. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    Since this DLC may be released in the next few weeks, please speed up and expand the route to Lyon
     
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  37. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    Not gonna happen. 3 weeks wouldn’t be nearly enough time. As it stands this is already the longest route we’ve seen. I personally would much rather see the older TGV loco brought as a DLC, not the route extension, I love that one.
     
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  38. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Why not both? Both is good. Reseau (and Reseau Duplex) would make amazing additions as well as making this a long high-speed marathon to Lyon.
     
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  39. indominus123456789

    indominus123456789 Member

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    We’ve built one multi voltage train previously, but we had two different systems there and not two different voltages via the same system.

    Does this mean that they've finished building the class 395, or is there another multi-voltage train I'm unaware of?
     
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  40. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I believe that would be the DB BR 406 ICE3M on the Schnellfahrstrecke Köln route. The 'M' is for multisystem, allowing the ICE3M to travel to other European countries with different voltages
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  41. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Seems so. The Javelin is overhead and third rail. So 2 systems not 2 voltages only.
     
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  42. Vectron383

    Vectron383 Member

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    One quick query for me is if you can cross from the cab to the coaches via the engine room. I know that in past, while this would be possible DTG has not modelled it so, which annoyed me a lot.
     
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  43. ronaldix

    ronaldix Active Member

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    No IRL you can't cross from the power car to the coaches in a TGV there is no passageway.
     
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  44. Vectron383

    Vectron383 Member

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    Right, thanks for that.
     
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  45. Sprinter

    Sprinter New Member

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    I dont know about the Duplex. But i worked 2 years on a TGV and you can enter the cargo room on one end of the train. From there you can enter the engine room and reach the cab. We used to bring the driver his/her coffee this way:) Although it was scary with all the movement and the little hop between the cabcar and the coaches.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  46. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    The Duplex shell is based from the Réseau and there is a door at the end of the power car and the lower level of the coach but I don’t know if it was ever used. I don’t have much information as I only work at Transilien
     
  47. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Disregarding the health and safety regulations :D
     
  48. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    He said they USED to bring the drivers coffee. They’ve probably stopped that. Also covid is different in every area, for example, France is doing much better than the US.
     
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  49. AFR7545

    AFR7545 New Member

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    Why did you do the old version of the Duplex set? there is a possibility that you do the internional version ? With on the voltage selector the position for the DB for the TGV able to go to Munich?
     
  50. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Because the 2N2 runs in priority on international services even though some goes on this LGV
     

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