im just posting this for those who don't know, i hope tsw 3 doesnt have this same fate We are sorry to say that, at this stage, we will not be releasing these updates to Train Sim World 2. It is a really tough decision to make, and we’ve not taken it lightly – but it has become apparent, that, whilst we’ve always intended to release the content, for a number of technical reasons, it is causing more issues than it resolves with the way the builds now work. this is from roadmap part 2
So why didn't they say there were technical issues, instead of stringing us along with ******** about update slots?
TSW2 and TSW3 are dead. Says so right there in the FAQ. Should we have a little bet on whether or not TSW4 is equally as dead at roughly the same time next year?
"We also want to focus on ensuring Train Sim World 4 is as good as we can make it for you all. We’ve always remained hopeful these improvements would be released, but sadly it’s become apparent that it’s not possible at this stage. We’re extremely sorry it has taken this long to come to this conclusion. "For Train Sim World 4, we’re making it very clear what you can and can’t expect from the remaining Train Sim World 3 game updates, and we hope you can accept our apology." I am not really convinced they ever seriously intended (and i mean more than intention, i mean actual concrete plans being worked on) on releasing these. For me this was the invevitable conclusion all along.
Tsw3 is still getting updates like the nyt timetable and various other fixes like it says on timetable. Not completely dead
i personally had a feeling tsw 2 wasn't getting its updates, why they couldn't just tell us from the beginning i don't know, its disheartening that itll never get its fixes especially those who still play it
"We also want to focus on ensuring Train Sim World 4 is as good as we can make it for you all" A bit like TSW 3? And TSW 2? And TSW 2020? All now obsolete with unresolved issues.. Hmmmmm.. thoughtful face
Look at it from the bright side: At least DTG won´t make anymore mess in TSW2 than they already have with their ill-conceived "patches". Else? We already know that DTG produces a lot of hot air besides TSW. No surprise there.
What it actually says; That is as dead as it gets. I don’t need to remind you that TSW2 was getting updates shortly after the release of TSW3 and we all know how that panned out, the same people that did the glitzy launch of TSW4 repeatedly lied about it to our faces for a whole year. So, this time next year TSW4 will be on that legacy list and we’ll all have just been invited by DTG to take them up on their kind offer to utilise our ‘loyalty discount’ and purchase TSW5 with Photo Mode 2.0. The saddest thing is people will be falling over themselves to hand over their money.
Well in the roadmap they released in the dev stream they only went 6-12 months ahead, so they already admitted it really!
Sounds very similar here is a snippit from Aug 10 2022 Roadmap part 1 when TSW 3 was announced. 'The existing Preservation Crew content on the Roadmap will be released within Train Sim World 3 first, with releases coming into Train Sim World 2 at a later date. You can see below in the Roadmap which content we’re currently planning to release in TSW2." And now we are being told. "Please note that everything in the TSW3 column will also be available on Day 1 for TSW4. Our intention is to release for TSW3 patches as soon as we can." Mmmm sounds similar. Well I still like the game and I said back last September TSW2 is dead as I know how DTG works. So no problems with me I bought EAsports games like crazy for many years, so I get how it works, it rhe Devil I know and I haven't trusted anything said or in writing. I only believe what is actually in my hands and released. But for how many months did Matt and JD state they are dedicated to getting this out to you, while on streams. So in my mind their credibility is gone, but to me its been gone since Rush Hour. DTG are never going to change if you still play the game and enjoy it like I do, just remember to take everything said as aspirations and not promises. And wait until the finished product to make your desicions. But yes TSW3 is dead and these updates will probably never see the light of day unless you buy TSW4.
They better have TSW5 ready in a year or I will stop playing TSW4 and make a big fuzz about it. I'm already an annoying customer when I'm happy, imagine me being not happy
Honestly, TSW2 should be dead. And TSW3 should die when 4 comes out. It would be stupid for DTG to be spreading their resources across 3 games, just stick with one and make it as good as possible with all the dev time they have. THAT SAID - DTG created a mess but not having a clear plan and communicating it. When they released TSW3, they kept TSW2 fixes on the roadmap that have never come, probably will never come, and should never come... but because DTG wasn't up front and honest there, they pissed a lot of people off. Now they are following a similar trail with TSW4 (updated NYT day 1 on TSW4 and "hope for a later date" on TSW3 - not the best language). I had no problem with TSW3. Bought day 1. Have no problem with TSW4. Will buy day 1. Logically looking at what you get with the "new" game for the price, TSW3 and 4 were both great deals, it doesn't make sense to cling to to old version when you're basically getting a free upgrade with a route bundle that is a lot cheaper than individual routes are. But DTG needs to figure out their strategy and communicate it. If they want to end support for the old game when the new one is out I say fine, but tell the people right away. They are needlessly offending a bunch of people by promising or inferring they will support a game and then out of nowhere releasing a new one. Sports games are worse, they basically make you pay FULL new game price every year for a glorified team roster and UI update - but people know that's what is coming because the developers don't make any illusions about it. I guess at this point we should know where DTG is going too, and not get offended/surprised if TSW5 appears this time next year. DTG and TSW annoy me quite a bit at times, but at the same time I have like 250hrs on TSW2 and 300ish on TSW3 so at least as of yet their flaws don't outweigh how much I like playing the games.
The amount of people on here who think that coding and programing is a straight forward activity shows just how uninformed the masses are. Unfortunately, a simple fix to a TSW2 core software may have unintended issues with a TSW3 or 4 core code. So, with that in mind, why spend 3 hours fixing code to benefit a now obsolete core when you can spend .5 hours on a code fix for the latest game. It's not logical. I appreciate that people can't afford to update straight away, but what do you expect? How many fifa, f1, cod or other games get patched when the next itteration releases?
You can't do everything in TSW3 that you can in TSW4, and you can't do everything you can do in TSW3 in TSW2.
I’m not saying you can, I’m saying it’s the same game. Hopefully that doesn’t need explaining any further. Bravo2six You’re missing the point there I’m afraid. We were all told that the fixes for TSW2 by the preservation crew were finished and good to go, it was simply a case of pushing out the patch once the TSW3 launch was finished. To the vast majority of people it became very clear very quickly that the promise to do so was a fairytale and those ‘patches’ would never see the light of day. They never intended to release them, the only difference now is they’ve admitted it.
Its not the same game though. Literally. If its the same game there would be nothing you could do in the new version that you can't do in the old version. It is a related game but its no more the same game than my MLB the Show 2022 is the same game as MLB the Show 2023.
They have added a couple of bits to Creator’s Club, fiddled with the HUD and not much else. The other new ‘features’ are route or loco specific. There is absolutely nothing to suggest, those things aside, that under the hood it is anything but the exact same game. There is nothing there that is not simply an ‘update’ to TSW3.
So they've added things YOU don't think make it worthy of a new release. That's your opinion. Don't buy it and keep enjoying TSW3 as is without the features that YOU don't want. But its still not the "same game".
Ah, deliberately misrepresenting what I’ve written. Good argument. I didn’t say anything, nor offer an opinion, about it being worthy of a ‘new’ release, those are your words. I said it is the same game, and I stand by it. You obviously think differently, so tell us all why it’s a new game and not simply a patch for TSW3…
Well I mean it is literally not the same game. You clearly agree with because you admit there are differences. Something cannot be the "same" and "different". Up can't be down. Left can't be right. Same can't be different.
Let’s say you have a black car and take it to the spray shop and have it painted red. Whilst you’re there you pop some fluffy dice on the rear view mirror. Is it not the same car? Or put it another way, you redecorate your house. Is it no longer the same house?
I think everyone on these forums agrees that they way things have been communicated has been a disaster... but at the end of the day, all DLC is coming over to TSW 4. If that would have not been the case, I would also be rioting here right now. I remember people only a couple a days ago on the forums claiming, they would be cool with game enging changing and loosing all DLC... that would have been a step too far for me and I´m glad it´s gone down the way it has.
Aha, but by this very comment, you have proved my point. But yes, of course they do coding. they have set up the coding for the routes, the signaling system and so forth. Fixing one line of code, say, to get a minor fix can so very easily break a completely different line of code for no apparant reason. It's a dark art and one that makes no sense/ provides no logical explanation for when things don't do what they should.
Well that is a terrible example. That is like buying a game and modding it. A good car example would be: In 2022 I check out the 2022 Toyota Camry, like the features it comes with, buy it, drive it for a year, enjoy it. 2023 comes around, Toyota releases a 2023 Camry with the same body and engine but it has a better nav screen, nicer rims, some prettier exterior colours. Is that the same car? No. Similar? Yes. Do I have a argument to go to Toyota and demand they add all these things to the car I bought last year for free? No. Can I trade it in for the new one if I really want those features? Yes. Can I keep driving my current car if I don't really want the features? Yes. There you go.
No, see, I disagree, I think it's been fairly well communicated, what DOESN'T help, is the endless forum threads created by people who either want to spread misinformation, create their own thread of the same topic for like farming or just want to fan the flames. What DTG put out in their FAQs has answered most of the questions people are asking, but usually don't want to read the official channels for whatever reason. Like for example, this thread It is just copy pasting from the official channel and offering nothing unique/ positive. Just a TSW2 IS DEAD. which in my opinion, should have happened when rushour released at the earliest
Sigh. That’s not the same thing at all. The example I’ve given is exactly what this switch from TSW3 to TSW4 is. The example you’ve given is akin to TSW going on to UE5. I’ll be generous and say it’s TSW2 going to TSW3 instead. Although critical at the time, that switch was a quantum leap compared to this one.
I hope the transparency continues from now on. It's a shame it took them this long to be honest about it. This also puts more pressure on quality control on the initial launch and first patch of any new TSW DLC- as a customer, you have to assume what you see at that point is all you'll ever get. Hopefully the annual release model will provide them with a clear enough development path that they won't be running out of time/budget as we've seen all too often. Time will tell.
With that logic I could say I had 2 ‘65 Cadillac de Villes, there is no difference between them but they are not the same car as they are constructed of different atoms, have different regs — theoretically nothing is the same, at all, ever, but the same has to colloquially mean similar just so we don’t all go mad thinking about weird philosophies.
You just want people to remain silent. I bet you would perfer if nobody criticized the product whatsoever. I don't see the problem to be honest. It's not just on the forums that people are critiquing DTG. I mean it’s like you don't want people to say what they have to say. If you don't agree with one's comment, that's your problem. People can say what they want to say as long as long it doesn't break forum rules.
This sounds like more of an upgrade than an update. Alot of tsw4's features are updates to existing content we already have. It's still the same product just with updated features and that's only for new routes and not the old ones
The trouble is they've thrown in a Yaris, and Prius and a Corolla which I dont want, asking me to pay a discount for the three cars while saying that you cant buy the upgrades for much less..
So you obviously think this upgrade isn't worth the money, that is clear. Us trading back unrelated examples from other industries I guess won't help. Simple solution: don't buy it? At the end of the day, a developer releases a game - there's no requirement for them to ever touch it again after release. They could drop it on you and leave. There's DEFINITELY no requirement for them to be adding entire new features for free. Bug fixes, I'd say there is more of an expectation for, ethically speaking, but not like there is a warranty on a video game. DTG, for all their faults, supports their stuff after release. They give us patches, roadmaps, streams, updates directly from the team posting on the forum, DLC, etc. Sometimes their updates are simple fixes, other times they add features that weren't in the original game at launch, for free in patches. Great. Traditionally patches were always to fix bugs, not add things, but sometimes DTG adds stuff in patches. Then, eventually they release a new game, and add more features with a new cost and include some new routes that will only work on that version of the game. They also (so far) include the ability to carry over the routes from our old versions of the game, running at least at the standard of that old version of the game (and sometimes upgraded to the newest standard). It is NOT the same game and they definitely are under no obligation to keep giving you free core updates for years and years. They could run their business that way, or they could run it the way they are doing it, or they could even go further the other way (ie charge full price for every core upgrade and not the bundle reduction they are doing now)... its really up to them. And up to you to decide with your wallet what you want to buy and not buy.
And posting here why and how that decision comes to pass is largely directed at the seller. Its a public conversation so of course people will interject, sometimes (rarely) helpfully. But all my complaints are directed at no one but the seller. It may be in response to another comment, but the end recipient is the seller, as what possible benefit is there in my life to trying to alter a fellow consumers mindset..
I agree there could be more transparency regarding their sales model. Me personally have no problems with the communication so far but I do notice lots of simulator fans don't understand console games. I found it already a bit strange how some people days before the reveal still were insisting it wasn't happening whilst evidence was piling up. Never seen such faith in a promise I never heard about. The only problem I see with communicating yearly upgrades is that that also can become a broken promise when things don't go as planned and I would not want to be the community administrator in august 2024 when you know it's delayed by a few months and you had announced a 12 month schedule.
What are you on about? Whether or not I purchase this (I almost certainly will have to acquire it at some point but will not do so until they are literally giving it away) is totally irrelevant. If I were to buy it, it is the same game. If I don’t buy it well, guess what, it’s still the same game! No amount of humphing is going to change that.
Well, yes, if they have nothing valid to say or contribution to add, then yes. I would like people to remain silent. No, I give DTG and the 3rd parties criticisim too, where it's warrented. Throwing around accusations like DTG LIED, TSW2 FIXES ARENT COMING LIKE THEY PROMISED, when a perfectly good reason as to why these fixes are no longer justifable are given. I have critisized Rivet on issues with E-G and WCL, as and when I have found issues that need discussing. I don't mind people saying their issues, if they are valid, but if its 3 or 4 forum threats all discussing the same issues, they they demand the core updates for free, for example, or whining that TSW2 should still be supported because they don't WANT to upgrade. that is where the issues differ. Again, just because you CAN say something that doesn't "break the rules", doesn't always mean you should.
You should be a politician, spinning things for narratives like that. You quite clearly are just ignoring things that don't interest you, i.e. Livery Designer, Scenario Planner, Free Roam, Volumetric Fog, the Gameplay improvements. Almost all of which is what the community asked for - and it's a huge change. If you hate DTG/TSW so much, why are you here? Just to complain perpetually?
Lets recap what we got in writing. October 6th 2022 Roadmap TSW2 content We recently released the Add-ons Manager for Train Sim World 2 console players, and delivering the current list of Preservation Crew/Special Projects improvements to TSW2 players is still something we’re working on. When content is released, information about its contents will be available on our ‘Announcement’ forums. November 3rd 2022 Roadmap. TSW2 Preservation Crew updates Finally in this section, a quick review on the outstanding TSW2 Preservation Crew updates – we are targeting these in a couple of batches, with the aim for at least one to be out this side of Christmas. As ever, you can find out when they’re live on our Roadmap articles, or by clicking here on our Announcement forums. Oh yay by Christmas. December 8th 2022 Roadmap. Note: Preservation Crew updates will continue after the launch of Train Sim World 3 [TSW3] Class 20 Livery Designer functionality [TSW2][TSW3] HST Livery Designer functionality [TSW3][TSW2] DB BR 187 Audio improvements [TSW2] [Tiny] Scottish Commuter [TSW2] [Small] Hauptstrecke Hamburg-Lübeck, including timetable update [TSW2] [Medium] Rhein-Ruhr Osten [TSW2] [Small] 2022 Bakerloo timetable (600+services) [TSW2] [Small] Long Island Rail Road [TSW2] [Huge] Peninsula Corridor – NOTE: there are further improvements to come on both games [TSW2] [Huge] Oakville Subdivision [TSW2] [Tiny] LGV Mediterranné Oh well thats less promising, LOL. January 12 2023 Roadmap. Note: Preservation Crew updates will continue after the launch of Train Sim World 3 [TSW2][TSW3] HST Livery Designer functionality New [TSW3] Boston Sprinter route upgrade (lighting, skies, signalling) [TSW3][TSW2] DB BR 187 Audio improvements [TSW2] [Tiny] Scottish Commuter [TSW2] [Small] Hauptstrecke Hamburg-Lübeck, including timetable update [TSW2] [Medium] Rhein-Ruhr Osten [TSW2] [Small] 2022 Bakerloo timetable (600+services) [TSW2] [Small] Long Island Rail Road [TSW2] [Huge] Peninsula Corridor – NOTE: there are further improvements to come on both games [TSW2] [Huge] Oakville Subdivision [TSW2] [Tiny] LGV Mediterrannée February 9th 2023 Roadmap. We have included a ‘scale’ of the size of the work/features put into the update. [TSW2][TSW3] HST Livery Designer functionality [TSW3] Boston Sprinter route upgrade (lighting, skies, signalling) [New] [TSW3] Sherman Hill route upgrade (lighting/skies) [TSW3][TSW2] DB BR 187 Audio improvements [TSW2] [Tiny] Scottish Commuter [TSW2] [Small] Hauptstrecke Hamburg-Lübeck, including timetable update [TSW2] [Medium] Rhein-Ruhr Osten [TSW2] [Small] 2022 Bakerloo timetable (600+services) [TSW2] [Small] Long Island Rail Road [TSW2] [Huge] Peninsula Corridor NOTE: there are further improvements to come on both games [TSW2] [Huge] Oakville Subdivision [TSW2] [Tiny] LGV Mediterrannée Note: Preservation Crew updates will continue after the launch of Train Sim World 3 March 7th 2023 Roadmap. Special Projects Team update The team have been hard at work at on the below, and working closely with our Partners (more in the ‘Partner Programme’ section!) – whilst we don’t have a substantial update for you on the projects, here’s a quick summary: HST Livery Designer Compatibility Going through final testing. TSW2 Preservation Crew updates These are awaiting a suitable release build. DB BR 187 audio improvements The Special Projects team have taken this on, but progress is slower than we’d like it to be at present. Ooooh just waiting a suitable release build. April 4th 2023 Roadmap. (Now they are commited to getting these out.) TSW2 Preservation Crew releases This has been a particularly tricky project to schedule into our calendars, and we apologise for the delay in bringing this to you. We are committed to bringing the improvements to you, and are hopeful they will be released in the next couple of months. For context, this was the largest patch update we’ve made within TSW (when it released for TSW3 in September), so requires a lot of space to prepare and put into builds. Thanks for bearing with us. May 2nd 2023 Roadmap. TSW2 Preservation Crew releases Nothing further on this one from last month. To reiterate – we’re committed to bring this to you, and are hoping the window of time we have now will help us to get this out. They are still comitted. June 6th 2023 Roadmap. TSW2 Preservation Crew releases Nothing further on this one from last month – the team are in the process of collating the updates into one patch, and when we have more for you we’ll let you know. They are now Collating the updates. July 4th 2023 Roadmap. TSW2 Preservation Crew releases Nothing further on this one from last month. So there you have it the rollercoaster ride for those who were holding out hope. Like I said before not 1 bit credible in my opinion might as well not bother believeing anything until it is released.
Well I guess other than the fact that you are constantly contradicting yourself. Its the same. But theres differences. Its the same. But I will still have to buy it separately and install it separately.
Just because they give a reason why they can't do something that they told customers they did do still means that they lied no matter if they give a reason good or not. It's still a lie. It's not so hard to understand.
