Tsw 3 Stream - Gameplay Stutters

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by dreampage, Aug 18, 2022.

  1. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Well-Known Member

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    Chill guys he played on 4k. So 4 times the normal resolution
     
  2. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    A part of me wishes DTG waited one or two more years and switched to UE5 with the next TSW. That engine, paired with the Lumen lighting technology would single-handedly solve these problems, including the tunnel lighting as well.
     
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  3. DTG Alex

    DTG Alex Community Manager Staff Member

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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It’s not just horn in tunnels and under bridges, tight cuttings etc. It’s the whole train sound that should be reverbing - the traction sound and exhaust to the wheel motion. If this is the case very disappointing and I for one would like to know given the amount of discussion on the forums over the months if not years, this has not been one of the keynote features to take TSW3 up a level from its predecessors. The fact that 21 year old MSTS with 16 bit sound could manage this (and various clatter going over bridges too) should be shaming the sound team.

    TSW3 looks more and more like a dud.
     
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  5. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Whats a "normal resolution"? QHD and 4k are standard in 2022. FHD is no longer used for modern gaming and only relevant if you have a old console or pc. Basically nobody is going to buy a FHD monitor since 2021, at least not for gaming.
    A game looking like a 2017/2018 game like TSW3 better runs in 4k resolution on modern hardware without stutters...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  6. batrasian63

    batrasian63 Member

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    Hi everyone

    I haven't bought anything from DGT in a long time. Basically for not solving errors in years, because the stutters, bad lighting and terrible sound that totally take me out of the immersion.

    Well, I wanted to give them another chance and I pre-ordered the TSW3. I like the game concept and I really want to enjoy it.

    But now, I have seen that nothing that interests me is fixed, nor has the experience been improved.

    And not only that, I just saw the DTG Alex announcement claiming that you may experience some stuttering on the routes due to how detailed they are (!!!) I don't think they are that complex game nor detailed, least of all with those graphs from 10 years ago ).

    What has been decisive for me is that DTG Alex states "You can watch the preview on demand on our YouTube, which doesn't have these performance issues." and the first thing i see in that video are performance isues just in the first few seconds of the video. In the rest of the video they are seen continuously.

    Short story: I just canceled the preorder, thanks.

    Sorry for my bad english
     
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  7. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    DTG Alex,

    - The stuttering is absolutely apparent on the YouTube video, as is the short draw distance. It is exactly the same stuttering that is apparent in the current version of the game
    - If the video was recorded in 4K, why is it only available on YT at 1080p?
    - Pretending that the previous two points aren’t reality and giving the game the benefit of the doubt I’ll ask why, when you’re demonstrating your flagship product, DTG are using machines that aren’t capable of doing that satisfactorily? You don’t need the latest and greatest to be able to play, record and stream in 4K but if you can’t play, record and stream in 4K without the game stuttering then don’t do it. Do it in 1440p. Isn’t that obvious?
    - Why is that tunnel flashing not sorted for release? Surely these threads are not the first time it’s come to DTG’s attention?! This should have been one of the bits of the low hanging fruit that was dealt with ages ago. People (me included) have been banging on about this since SEHS was released. I remember DTG releasing the fix that fixed nothing yet still some tunnels exhibit the issue, some don’t. Why is that, and why has it not long since been resolved?

    Training Centre and the new UI are corrections to previous design decisions made by DTG. This is now the third UI we’ve had and whilst it looks better I bet it won't be the last. Praise where it’s due though, the clouds look good and the new lighting looks ok (although in reality not hugely different) but that is tempered by the poor draw distance. No one is expecting highly detailed shadows to be drawn all the way to horizon, but there simply HAS to be a better solution than this.

    It still believe it odd though to charge long time loyal customers for the privilege of being able to continue purchasing content for the game, particularly when they’re getting not a huge amount for their money unless you’re into the routes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Um, no. It wouldn't. UE5 is not some magic wand which will instantly make Everything Better. It's a package of programming tools, which have to be used by developers, usually through much hard work, to be taken advantage of-- just like UE 4.2. In fact, most of the current complaints result from DTG not making full use of the tools UE4.2 provides.
     
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  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Oh, malarkey. 4k monitors are still the minority, because they are still very, very expensive.
     
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  10. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    He should have said: "It stutters because its a TSW game"...

    And even with the many issues DTG already tells us that "we are investigating and we might fix it later". Well...i can remember when it was said that the months after SOS release will be used to "fix" TSW2...guess what happened...we get a TSW3 (paid of course) with more or less the same massive issues that TSW2 has.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  11. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Let's just face it tsw is gonna stutter and keep on stuttering.

    What can we as a community do about it? Absolutely nothing.
     
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  12. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Should be on the Steam Shop page then

    - Game will stutter no matter your hardware and these stutters will rip you out of the immersion
     
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  13. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    vote with our wallets
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    For a "new" game, it is unacceptable that issues that persist in it's predecessor occurs in the "new" version. That doesn't normally happen in sequels to games
     
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  15. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, the stutters are there in the YouTube VoD version, I took the screenshot from there actually, and not the live stream. It you watch the VoD version and keep an eye on the action / fps counter, you'll see the stutters too. As you described, it's the content loading/unloading which is unfortunate. Whether it will be the same on our systems or better, remains to be seen.
     
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  16. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    If you look up the new features of UE5, Lumen is a complete real-time lighting system which makes "baking" lights completely unnecessary. It handles global illumination and can handle all kinds of scenarios in real time. It's not mandatory to use with UE5 and definitely not a cheap technique, but it would make the job of developers much easier, as well as solve the current lighting issues in TSW 2/3.
     
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  17. paulossj4

    paulossj4 Member

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    As a player of this simulator from the early days of Raiworks to the TSW era, I am upset and outraged by the lack of transparency and false advertising with the products offered.

    - Why aren't they sincere in saying that the game will ALWAYS have problems with stutters, lighting, sounds and broken gameplay that they will never be able to fix, selling an unfinished product?
    - Why i have to pay for something unfinished? I agree that nobody works for free, but then why didn't they continue with TSW2 improving it and releasing DLCs to improve the routes?
    - Why isn't there an in-game editor yet that could bring collaboration from multiple developers? They have a clear example in TS Classic, where several mods were created and are frequently released, unlike TSW, which stopped at Class 465...How difficult is that? Monopoly?

    As difficult as it is to elaborate a simulator with so much detail, it is not possible that even today, after two TSWs, we still have the same problems, the same questions and the same excuses for everything that is covered in TSW.

    I can only come to one conclusion, TSW has reached its limit and there is nothing that can be done to improve...

    If PC players already suffer from this, imagine PS4, Xbox users... In my humble opinion, TSW should have been ONLY on PC, as there would have been a greater focus on problems...
     
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  18. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    How? The money comes from console players. Money creates resources that can be dedicated to focus. If this game was PC only it would still have the same problems because a lack of resources. I learned on this forum that there are multiple train simulators, all of them are PC only. I can't imagine any of them being as advanced as TSW otherwise nobody would care there is a TSW3 release.
     
  19. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Daily reminder that MSFS runs basically perfect on Xbox Series...
     
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  20. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I think the stuttering is caused because they run above and below 60 fps all the time. With a fps cap or G-sync that could be mitigated. But I have seen several noticeable tile loading hitching and still the short distance shadows both on terrain and on the rails, so basically more of the same UE 4.26 song for the next years. Guys you need to get rid of that please and seriously consider the evolution to UE 5 and DX12.

    Cheers
     
  21. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    Stutters are an inherent problem of Unreal Engine's shader compilations, and that includes UE5 -- currently. UE5.1 is going to "attempt to" (not definitely) fix the stuttering issues that plague UE games. Time will tell when developers start using 5.1.

    I guess it isn't worth the hassle of switching over to UE5 any time soon, if it still doesn't fix one of the main issues. Better to wait for a version of UE that is proven to fix it, then make the leap?
     
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  22. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 runs well with G-sync (no stutters at all). But... the tile loading is the real problem as it creates microfreezes (hitching), than can also be seen in the TSW3 stream, when new scenery is being loaded. For that there´s no cure as of today because, even if it can be improved by engine.ini settings, this mainly depends on the size of the tiles (so when new scenery is going to be loaded) and we have no control over that using the engine.ini settings because it´s a design feature. When tiles are too big system faces a huge amount of workload to handle in just few ms in the heaviest areas of the route and that´s simply too much. We have seen that issue even of some of the regular routes.

    UE 4 was not made for this type of games. It was made for smaller worlds or for big ones but with smaller level of detail in the tiles. That´s why the older routes still work better as they were less detailed but the newer start to show the true engine limitations. That combined with a 12 years old DX11 that overloads the CPU with continuous draw calls leads to what we have seen since TSW1. And even the fastest CPUs existing now can´t solve that. I recently tested TSW2 with a i9-12900ks and routes showed exactly the same problems in the same places.

    The sooner they change to UE 5 + DX12 the better for them (in terms of engine capacity for their future work) and for the users as well in terms of performance and game visuals. Also such a migration will take time but sooner or later they will need to do it, so it´s better to start now and consolidate the core with time enough in advance. And please do not use again the default project settings (engine.ini)... They are not optimal at all for such a heavy simulation. Modern systems can do much more than the ancient Pentiums :D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  23. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    And plenty of us prefer much higher framerates. Which until HDMI 2.1 wasn't even possible at 4k, and again, now it is, is SUPER expensive.
     
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  24. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Well, not everyone have powerful rigs, not everyone play games at 4K.
     
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  25. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, and on Series S a 1080p screen is all you need since that's the highest resolution it can handle at 60fps.
     
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  26. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
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  27. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Why would you ever need more then 60 FPS in a Train Sim?
    TSW2 on the Series S runs in 4k (or at least higher then FHD) by default by the way.
     
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  28. sceptre#1685

    sceptre#1685 Member

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    1920x1080 (single monitor category) is used by 67.10% of the gamers on Steam, the largest digital platform.
    https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
    A lot of people value response time over screen resolution and at 4k it comes at a high cost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
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  29. Birita

    Birita Well-Known Member

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    I went back to youtube after i saw that quote and had the same reaction as you...what is going on with DTG i cant even imagine...and yes...ALL issues going for tsw2 will be on Tsw3 and not even the almighty knows If they are going to be ever fixed...heck...Tsw 3 is not even out and they are already making promises...
     
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  30. sceptre#1685

    sceptre#1685 Member

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    After watching and seeing all those stutters I pulled my preorder. Going back to flying and keep an eye on the reviews. If it turns out to be fine I’ll buy it. I’m not gonna risk $50 on whether it’s the game or the streaming equipment causing it.
     
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  31. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I didnt preorder but that we now have a "new" TSW game with the same stutters and bad performance is not something im going to spent money on. Especially since the new lighting is just as bad as the TSW2 lighting it seems and many bugs and issues with TSW2 never got fixed...

    - Still no seasons in scenario planer
    - Sun still shines through solid roof of loco cab
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think cajon and SEHS is going to determine whether I find £45 back in my bank next weekend.
     
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I already spent my Steam credit... on Sailaway!
    So even if DTG pull several rabbits out of the hat, I won't be making a Day One purchase.
    Time to update my signature...
     
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  34. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    sorry i very like tsw3.I’ll buy it
     
  35. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    I distinctly remember not long into the stream the game resolution being changed from 4K to 1080p as the bandwidth was causing major stuttering with the stream quality. From then on it unfortunately it looked rather like the Xbox One version, in other words a blurry mess. They really need to invest in some decent streaming equipment, and stop using Teams for stream audio. One has the impression they are trying to do it on the cheap by having individuals host streams, with the inherent quality issues that brings and the chaos that usually ensues at the beginning.
     
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  36. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    TSW has always been stuttering and DTG/fanboys have always pretended it did not happen. Nothing new here, just the same old bugs with a new coat of marketing.
     
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  37. Dakota

    Dakota Member

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    Ha ha Scorpion71 another ComBloc train (i think)!! Anyway I am quite certain that the stutters on my system are due to loading upcoming scenery from disk. PC/Win11/RTX3090/i( CPU/32Gb RAM/Fast SSD. Per the W11 Performance Monitor, running 4K at 60FPS, the CPU is truly loafing, and the GPU runs about 50% 3D and flatline on other measures. It ain't graphics. I love the look and glass smoothness except for the mini- to annoying freezes. This one thing kills the immersion. I still love the sim though.
     
  38. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I had this too, running under direct x 12 made a significant difference in my instance
     
  39. Dakota

    Dakota Member

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    This is Windows 11 with nVidia graphics and nVidia drivers. DXDiag says it is running DirectX 12.
     
  40. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Unless you specifically add the -DX12 launch parameter to Steam then it’s running in DX11 which is a much worse option, particularly with a system like yours.
     
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  41. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    As above, force it through steam
     
  42. Dakota

    Dakota Member

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    Oh I gotta try this. Thanks! Who would guess that an app would force an older DX version. I’m also surprised Windows 11 has the old DX as well as the current one. AnywayI’ll try this later today, thanks again.
     
  43. jackthom

    jackthom Active Member

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    The regular stuttering has always been the number one immersion breaker for me.
    In general I think TSW is a very impressive offering from the DTG team and none of the other oft-mentioned bugs/problems have affected my enjoyment anywhere near as much as this one.
     
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  44. ShodanCat

    ShodanCat Member

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    DX12 has its issue too, especially when games aren't specifically built with it in mind (which TSW3 was not.)
     
  45. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Active Member

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    -dx12 worked amazingly for me. Playing in 4k I never saw a stutter since.
     
  46. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Sure
     
  47. Dakota

    Dakota Member

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    Just to confirm -- This is what you mean right?
    DX12.png

    If so then I'm not noticing any difference. I tried -dx12 (lower case) as well. Here are my system specs:

    My Rig.png

    And here is a 4K video. Note in the last part that I display the FPS counter and you can see it take one hit after another. So far -DX12 (or -dx12 lower case) doesn't make any difference here. This is a brand new high-dollar system (6 weeks old). The game files are on the C: drive, an SSD. This was uploaded to YouTube at 1542 MST (2242 UTC) so you may need to wait to see the full 4K video as it is still processing.

     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022 at 11:30 PM

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