Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Nov 28, 2019.
Your lack of respect for your fellow TSW community members is more disheartening. I have an idea, I agree that 30 miles isn’t enough time for you to change your attitude. Maybe next year! I have spent many hours on all of the routes and the most important thing for me is the setting and the locomotives. The length won’t be a deciding factor towards if I enjoy running services on that route. If the deciding factor for you is length I don’t think you will be happy any time soon.
The TSW community is pretty much polarized. One half sees these pretty pictures in the DLC announcements and are happy, they just want to drive for half an hour after work.
The other looks deeper. Has ambitions, hopes, dreams, visions, enthusiasm, care for the hobby. They are typically the ones who are railbuffs first and gamers second, instead of the other way round. That's the part of the community I have respect for, can side with and immerse in. The other half, apart from some basic respect for human beings, isn't.
Like it or not, I choose who I respect and who not, and we all do that. I'm just a bit more picky.
Probably because its not a community at all, but a bunch of disparate people who share interest in a game...
My enjoyment of a route is more about how interactive the simulation is. I prefer stop start routes to long "running on greens" for example, but some people want to drive the entire length of the crosscountry route from Aberdeen to Penzance or EDB-KGX non-stop.
Neither are "wrong"
I do understand that people would actually like to be able to drive a complete service rather than a stilted version, and in this case that would mean going to Ore or Hastings rather than anywhere before that, especially given that the best looking part of the route is between Pevensey and St Leonards.
Yes. for example. Actually having work to do if you want to reach your destination. Though just getting a train up to some serious speed, watch the scenery fly past, listen to engines and bogies doing the hard work instead of me, that has its joys too. Only in TSW in its current state, it's always ofter after what.. 15 minutes?
Hastings.. yeah, that is another part of it. That part of the line, for the most part is just fields and countryside, once you get close to Hastings you travel along the beach, a number of tunnels in the city itself... the most "seaside" and the most "spectacular" section of the route, in the most literal sense of the word, was cut out.
Just fields and countryside, that souldn't have been too hard to build? The beach area, yeah maybe a bit more work, but in turn, the sea requires none whatsoever. Maybe some ship in the distance if you want to be nice.
Back to the polarization topic: DTG chooses to design TSW for the casual half of the playerbase, while the ones willing and often, thanks to higher age, greater maturity and all that comes with it, also able to pay more for a well done and worthwhile simulator, is the other. Again: ask RSSLO, ask Armstrong Powerhouse, ask virtualRailroads, ask Aerosoft, ask fraking PMDG. None of these are cheap to buy from, but they are virtually unanimously regarded as far superior to DTG by the TSminusW community.
What I find frustrating about this is:
You have to suspect that the route was originally surveyed and chosen because the full route (Brighton-Hastings) was an achievable length. Then cut down by management/accountants to be cheaper/quicker to produce. It's hard to believe that Brighton-Eastbourne was ever the original plan.
That's my theory for many routes actually. Look at RRO, how far beyond Wuppertal-Steinbeck the scenery goes, a mile almost. Look how the one-stop hop S9 services come with a full set of destination panels. My guess is it was meant to go to Düsseldorf, Solingen, Cologne, something like that, at very least to Wuppertal-Vohwinkel. Then somebody came along saying, nah, would be too much work, how far have you gotten so far? Oh, K... well nvm, just release it.
I wonder if Matt or someone has ever had a serious talk with the management about how that isn't good for the franchise.
You know the old saying? Would you rather want 100 dollars today or 1000 dollars next week? I wish DTG was more tending toward the latter.
I want longer routes, but I am interested to hear from those who always whines (even if they are not schoolchildren) because of the length of the route, and what is the difference between a short TS / TSW WSR (20 miles) and a long TS LGV (192 miles ) !?
adequate people understand that the travel time from point A to point B on these two routes is almost the same, that is, there is no difference for the player, unlike the developer
so we can conclude that you will whine even with the release of TSW LGV Marseille – Lyon
Exactly. We could drive the HST for an hour at a time as well, not just the regional and commuter trains.
Bad example... Too many scenarios in their payware require no longer sold items
Using AP as a good example of payware in TS is like saying Boeing are good with flight controls...
Well I hardly ever play scenarios, neither in TS nor TSW, so I'm not too familiar with that part of it. Not no longer sold is more about how you do it though, not if at all.
Selling something for profit that you KNOW no longer works in it's entirety says something to me...
Admittedly DTG seem to sell things that don't work "out of the box" but still
Oh you mean, no longer available at the time of release? Yeah, agreed, that's not a gentleman's strategy either. Not friendly to newcomers to begin with.
What I had in mind originally though, was the trains they make as such. Especially sound-wise. After all, every producer has the things they're good and not so good at.
Those are acknowledged to be pretty good along with a few other producers
I'm looking forward to getting this, despite my "Yay, 23 miles" comment at the top of the thread. I don't mind short routes as long as the variety is there and the quality is high. Maybe the Seaford branch was considered to be of more value than continuing the line to Hastings or further, favouring variety over total driving time per session. All the points about what appears to be a route with limited content are valid and we can only find out if it's quality over quantity once we see the live stream or play the route ourselves. I'm hoping the 66 has had some improvements, especially with the flaky sound.
Im inclined to agree with you. The variety could be very interesting and engaging.
That pretty much sums up my feelings on TSW.
We've got people who want more detail and people who want longer routes.... Well both are simultaneously impossible so I can see why DTG just cut straight to the middle ground on this. Its not like criticism is all coming about 1 aspect which everyone agrees on....
Personally I've been using TSW almost daily for 12 months now and I've still got tonnes of stuff to get through, and with every release of a new dlc the backlog just keeps on growing, so I'm pretty happy with it all....
Not completely true.
The problem is that routes are not extendable and dev time is limited so that the DTG flywheel still spins.
For instance if they released this route and six month later released an extension to Ashford and six months later released an extension from that... This would give people an extending network with greater choices to be made even if people have to wait for them.
This doesn't fit with what DTG are doing, with disparate routes and consists all of which seem to have some issue or another.
Well that's precisely the part that I doubt. It might not be possible for 30€ per route, but who says they can't cost more? But then, long AND detailed routes for 30€ might create an economy of scale by drawing in more players who never tried TSW.
Because, I can't say it often enough: That's what virtually all the people say who never switched over from TS: The routes are too damn short!
I’d love for this to happen but I don’t think they ever would because they would alienate people who’s decided not to pick up the ECW dlc and they would be waiting longer for a dlc pack they want to buy as DTG are concentrating on one certain route.
This is where the editor comes into play, if/when released other devs can use their skills and time to extend the routes we’ve got while DTG pump out a route every other month.
Connected routes, not route extensions. You don't need one to use the other. You can combine them into one big network, you don't have to. That would be my dream.
No need to bring the editor into this. Needing to pay five different people to make essentially the same route doesn't fill me with glee...
I think you just won the award for most ridiculous post on a forum, ever.
I, like many other people on here, have spent hundreds of hours on Train Simulator. However, almost all of my 700 hours were spent in Quick Drives or 30-minute scenarios. After school. According to your standards, I am a simple-minded lowlife with no hopes or dreams. You said it yourself:
What a rude and uncalled for assumption to make.
How do you know how involved I am with the 'hobby'? I don't play two-hour scenarios. Does that make me not interested? I don't like heavy, complicated mechanics for driving trains. Does that make me basic? I rarely buy DLC from anybody other than DTG. Does that mean I don't care? No.
How could you possibly think that somebody who isn't as involved in the game isn't as interested in it? You wouldn't say that to a 6-year-old with a small Hornby Blue Rapier train set, would you? Would you say that to an 80-year-old who would love to go trainspotting but can't get out of his chair, let alone stand on a platform for 6 hours? And to say that somebody who genuinely isn't that interested lacks
is completely ridiculous. Generic Gamer 1 might have the ambition to be a chemist. Generic Gamer 1 may hope that he marries a beautiful person and has a healthy, prosperous relationship. Generic Gamer 1 may dream of having a fast car, or go on a big holiday around the world. Generic Gamer 1 may not be enthusiastic about trains, but Generic Gamer 1 may be more enthusiastic in athletics. Just because this person, whoever they may be, isn't as interested in trains or bothered about the length of the route doesn't mean they're worse than you. The fact you actively admitted you don't respect people who aren't fully involved in the world of trains or Train Simulator is hopefully a joke. I think it's an insult, to be honest, to me, a load of people on here, a load of people on other websites, and, worst of all, yourself.
I meant extensions. Connected routes so that to complete one "service" by doing five different in game "services"? Nah, give me one long service
That's exactly what I meant! Absolutely seamless transition from one route to the other. Picture riding Amtrak into NY Penn, walking over a few platforms, getting on that LIRR train and driving it to Hicksville. I'll have to write a thread of its own about that one day, it's a bit more complex.
Now picture more "linear" extensions, speaking, routes connected to each other at the end instead of somewhere in the middle. Hicksville to Ronkonkoma in this example. You can run that on its own, and if you decide LIRR isn't your cup of tea, leave it at that. Or buy the entire network piece by piece.
That's what I kind of meant too. Don't know if it's possible in UE4 but that's the dream
It'd also be nice if they've added the radiator and corridor at the no.2 end instead of just a blank featureless wall and fixed the tail lights to apply at the correct end. Doubt it though.
Looks very busy I think the realtime table is busier than what will be reflected in the TSW version.
I would love to see the Parliamentary service to Newhaven Marine included as a gimmick, it’s just one service a day. The service don’t exist anymore today, but ran as far as 2017 as far as I know when the station was demolished but the platforms are still there. You just drive there, wait 10 min and reverse to Lewis and that’s it. No one to board or disembark. The Ghost Train service. Was operated by a 3car 313 but you could swap it for a 4car 377 perhaps. Not true to life but almost.
377/4s were used on the service, albeit less frequently than 313s, so it is realistic. As you say it's a great opportunity for an interesting scenario, so hopefully DTG haven't missed the chance to include it.
Well looks like a thumbs down for this one DTG far too short and I live in sussx,yes class 09,33,37,45,47,56, and 73 came to sussex and brighton except the 37 they took coal to hove,class 56 on arc stone trains to ardingly,I also saw a class 45 45130 at burgess hill on the Brighton to Manchester, I have film of most of these in the 90s taken by me.what is next DTG the long awaited editor, maybe 3rd party people can do better.
Bryan robson, George best, Dennis law, Duncan Edwards, bobby Charlton, David Beckham, Christian Rinaldo, zlatan ibrohimovich and Hendrick larrson all played for man utd.... But not at the same time.....
This is fantastic news am so chuffed bombardier trains rock the 2 questions I have are these 1. Will these electrostars feature working destination displays/Gsmr inputs and also what’s the cost on Xbox one
Yeah if you look at the screenshots you can see working destination boards don't know about the ones in the train tho
Quick google search ...90mph top speed.
Price is £24.99
The destination work on the outside and inside the train
I still hope for a real modern line with a real modern trains and in an "open" project able to connect London with east and west coast (and why not? With France coast too) through periodical dlcs released like a sort of route segments. So, at the end we will can collect the complete route. And makes the same (an "open" project) with german and north american routes.
That will be a best train simulator experience where we will can drive and meet freight, local, rapid and also modern high speed services in every our singolar duty and drive through complete route and through a several of main iconic stations.
Anyways, Brighton landscapes looks cool, but Brighton isolated line (not connected to London) leave me a bit sad. Because its another isolated route like BWE without Bristol/Cardiff, NEC without north or south connection (New Haven or Philadelphia), RSN without Sieg, MSB without Hessau/Frankfurt, RRO without Dusserdolf/Dortmund, Caltrain without Los Angeles, NTP without Liverpool and/or Newcastle, etc.
They don't have the rolling stock to justify connecting to a major hub. If they went up towards london they'd have to include more consists else it would be fairly obviously not realistic
Inside as well that's fantastic news
Manchester and Hagen Hbf beg to differ. ^^
Didn't they say something like Clapham Junction is too complex for UE4 at some point?
This is exactly why I don't approve of TSW using UE4. It's an engine that isn't really made for simulators. It's better off with shooters and stuff like that, not simulators. I think simulators are better off with their own engines built from the ground up to avoid limitations or other difficulties.
Well it has pros and cons. After all TSW, in my experience is the most impressive looking trainsim (or any sim really) I've seen so far, and at the same time the one with the best and most consistent FPS. That has its value too.
This is zoomed in version:
Manchester in game has as many as say gatwick or further north?
Well it certainly has more than what, 5 or 6 trains per hour or what it has in TSW. After all you don't need to have the real number in game to give the impression that "wow there's a sh**load of traffic here."
RRO had that already.
Why did someone even downvote this
Perhaps Scotrail156 is just having a bad day.
I was talking more about different classes making up movements or AI rather than "wow, there's 70 class 377s here, must be busy"
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