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Tsw2 - Clinchfield Railroad - Building The F7

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG JD, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    Just in time for the weekend, we catch up with the loco team to find out more about the EMD F7 for the upcoming Clinchfield Railroad.

    [​IMG]

    Read the full interview here.
     
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  2. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Not bad of a look in TSW.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  3. fizpix

    fizpix Well-Known Member

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    It is wow that's hot though definitely will buy it
     
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  4. kolesnikvictor

    kolesnikvictor Member

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    Will we get working and accessible engine room?
     
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  5. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully we do, this will be a crucial part for the simulation, as we have to go inside to cold start the loco and B units. But research material is limited, they mentioned in the article there were some things they just couldn’t find, so it’ll be interesting to see how they would pull this off, if they try it in the first place.
     
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  6. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting interview. Certainly whets the appetite for this locomotive and shows the care that's going into the modeling, though I would imagine most of us don't need any additional motivation to acquire this route. A cold and dark start would be a great feature and I'm glad they've taken the time to get the dynamic brake as realistic as possible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  7. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    Especially for the B unit, as there’s no cab to begin with.
    There is clinchfield 800 which hopefully was used as reference material for the engine room.
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Did they see something through those painted windows? Uhm
    3D models in TSW are a very strong aspect. Nice.
     
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  9. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Well, this picture doesn‘t look promising for accessible engine rooms:
    DCE1D27B-3EE4-4FA8-89C5-B0741A474ED2.jpeg
     
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  10. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Just remember, these images do say Work In Progress. So whatever the finished model is gonna look like, it's gonna be as it's modeled no matter what.
     
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  11. kolesnikvictor

    kolesnikvictor Member

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    Well, F7 - is a iconic american loco. If they are going to use it in another routes which are being planned, I believe, they must design engine room. Let's see
     
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  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Given the production date of this locomotive, I wouldn't expect to see the inside of an engine room. Bearing in mind how often we have not seen it before in other cases - not a big chance.
     
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  13. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t expect an engine room - just to set expectations. Matt has said in the past that they would only serve to consume resources in the game that could be better utilised elsewhere.
     
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  14. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    This engine is an ion on its own. The European offspring is the Nohab Engine and eiter the Class 1200 of the Dutch State Railway is also an off spring if this unique engine. Please set up repaints for the F7A and F7B like Union Pacific, Santa Fe Warbonet and Pensylvania Railroad
     
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  15. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I would not expect an engine room either. It be an incredible amount of energy spent for them to model such an area (think of all the polygons and nuanced pipelines running through there). As much as I would like such functionality to be modelled, the truth is we haven't seen an "engine" room modelled since the DB BR 182, I believe. And that was only a simple corridor.

    What I do want to know, however, is if the horn on the rope will dangle and sway around with the physics of the train like the air hoses do. That detail would make me unreasonably giddy.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Why not?
     
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  17. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    The current model doesn’t seem to have any access doors or some way to let us in the engine room. This might not be modeled, DTG might choose to spend resources to work on other things such as audio and physics. If they model a working, accessible engine room then too many resources would be spent on it and other things such as audio, the quality of services and gameplay, and physics wouldn’t meet our expectations at all, and those are things players care about, so why spend resources on a thing some might not worry about and instead spend them on things everyone does care about?
     
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  18. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    When Matt saw this picture, he thought the loco was finished.
     
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That model doesn't appear to have functioning cab doors either. I suppose we won't be able to access the cab?

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating. TSW's previous EMD locos have had engine room access.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  20. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I hate this constant reference to compromise. We can't do this or that because it uses too many resources that would be better etc.... I know my pretty mid level machine could handle more than the game currently asks of it. That's certainly true of the newer consoles and maybe the current ones too. Let's have more and better features that can be switched in or out at the discretion of the player on all machines.
     
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  21. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why anyone mentions the doors. They are modelled. That still doesn't tell us if they are functional. Regardless, what I think Lamplight was referring to was the opaque port holes in the body work, which would likely be painted over with a dark texture if no engine room is modelled.

    Cheers
     
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  22. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    The model looks fantastic, hopefully the sounds will be just as fantastic (not getting my hopes up though)
     
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  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Unless DTG are conceding that they would have been caked with coal dust and opaque anyway!

    Don't be misled by No. 800 in its pristine, restored glory. The Clinchfield rather notoriously never washed their locos, and in real life they looked like this:

    clinchdirt.jpg



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  24. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    From what I hear they only wash the outside of 800...the inside is very much living up to the CF name:)
     
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  25. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    The model must be functional in all aspects. Always DTG makes concessions to it but until so far no engine has become available with all functionalities included which is still the greatest lack of DTG despite all of their efforts. Make it all work. All buttons, etc. the engine room itself etc. etc. We are at the edge of true reality and no concessions should be made how so ever. even in the most minor details. The community now has waited for more the 20 years since the arrival of MSTS and still the Train simulation s is still far behind the rest of gaming.except for the graphics. TSW2 is not coping with the rest of it. Is still not coping all functionalities, leaving a empty space behind for those who wants to deepen it out.

    No matter what the arguments are. If DTG wants to pay full contribute and respect for TSW2 engines and routes and all what is on the roadmap then everything in all aspects must work according reality without any concessions at all times.
    TSW@ is still running in standard mode and still not possible to share liveries or scenario's with the community. What a disaster this is..........!!!! TSW runs now for over 2 years still increasing routes and engines but all based on older prototypes engines.

    An example is the oncoming release of the Blue chapter of BR it is nice bur there is no significant change. With the coming of the Blue chapter for the Western mainlines GWR there should be completely new engines instead of some repaints and modification. There now should be a class 50, class 55, Class 20 in Blue livery Mk1 coaches in all kinds of liveries and types. Why not a reskin of class 43 in BR blue livery. Class 31, 33 and a warship instead of repainting older engines and commecializing it.

    Though YSw is graphical perfect the rest of the features are far behind. Stil no multiplayer. Still no possibility to be a signaller. I am trying to be nice , but irritation is growing stronger and stronger because of the lack of mentioned achievement saying "we are still working on it" but ao far less progress in any way and any state. . Enough is enough.. It is time to become real meaning to fit reality as it is.
    I am not angry but disappointed and irritated because over 20 years of Trainsimming and still far behind on the rest of the games.

    I now will fight for it to acocmplish reality in TSW2. Pay contribute. But do this in every detail every button every sequence and no concessions to it. Face reality in all details no matter the costs because most are willing to pay that price for it. It MUST be 100% real and equal to reality.
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? You want a multiplayer setup which permits one incompetent or a-hole to completely ruin EVERYBODY'S session? Oh, and you want multiplayer implemented while at the same time they add functionality to every knob, button and switch right down to the spark advance, passengers' individual reading lights and the rag to mop up oil spills...

    How many developers do you think that would take? Guess, and then multiply your number by 10. And that by 100. Don't even try to compare this to MFS- that is produced by the biggest software company in the world. DTG is one of those companies which could have the entire employee roster for dinner in one restaurant's back room.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Another Clinchfield beauty queen

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Really good looking model. I can't wait to see the finished product.
     
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  29. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    As much fun as it is getting out of the cab, it is really unfortunate that this seemingly precludes the use of streamlined assets, as the engine can't use less detailed, lower poly models (e.g., less-finished interiors) on AI trains, because they all have to be modeled as if you’re going to drive or ride them as a passenger.
     
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  30. kolesnikvictor

    kolesnikvictor Member

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    I'd like to get both performance and fully functional model but I'm afraid it's not about DTG. It's better to be healthy and reach than ill and poor for me
     
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  31. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    What Callum said. The cab seems to be fully modelled in the picture while there‘s nothing modelled behind the port windows. It may be possible that this model is not the finished release model, but I think we should all accept now that there won‘t be an engine room to avoid disappointment when Clinchfield comes out.

    I‘m curious though how cold starting will work then. For the A-unit, we‘ll probably get an engine start and stop switch in the cab as a compromise, but what about B-units? Will they be automatically started/stopped with an A-unit? I‘m looking forward to seeing what DTG have done with the F7s in gameplay terms.
     
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  32. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    very good route i like
     
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  33. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    I got your point. But TS started once but that company as well called MSTS. And YES every knop must work accordingly.as in real life. Depending the mode you are in. Because I know it is hard to achieve but as you run in passenger mode there is no button a passenger needs to press except for the local spot light, reading lights collapsible table and seat adjustments. The door is already working when clicking on it. Now when you "change" to driver mode all functionalities for the driver must become available but not the passenger functionalities this should be turned off once in driver mode.

    It is hard to achieve, but is can be done but all knobs levers etc working at the same time but depends the mode you choose for
    otherwise to get every working at the same moment will slow down the calculation process of the PC. And since FSX has become part of DTG it should be an example how to achieve multiplayer It is possible to FLY online with FSX and FS20xx in a community like VatSim, IVAO or even in Run8. Why not in TSW2
    Take a look at Run8. they drive online in a community and is MSTS based. Look at Bus Simulator. They are driving online community based, Look at Truck Simulator, Farming Simulator and even Call of Duty is able to play online as multiplatyer and we train simmers of TSW2 / TS20xx can only dream about these things so far. Call of Duty is even far more heavier and demands much more of the PC than TSW2

    Last but not least; Poland is coming with a train simulator this year and creates directly the possibilty to play online in a multiplayer.
    Though they use the Unity engine instead of Unreal engine. They will pop-off with multiplayer and steam, but all in a plish environment and map. Fortunately steam now will come to TSW in some time as they have announced it.
     
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  34. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I dream of one highly refined model, something like the F-14 for the DCS from Heatblur. DTG goes a little different way.
    I understand. I am not entirely happy about it.
    EDIT You have to pay $ 80 for this level of detail for one model. True.
    Multiplayer works great in Run8. Nobody spoils anyone. The publisher is a company smaller than Microsoft, also smaller than DTG.

    Coming back to the topic: I am very much looking forward to it! I will probably be disappointed and delighted at the same time, as always :D

    PS...
    O tak :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  35. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think this is an important point. I've never seen any evidence on the forum that players are willing to lay down serious money for really high-quality modeling. Not saying that TSW2 models cannot be really good, but, for $20-30 a pop, expectations are sometimes unreasonable.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    We must understand that train-simming is a niche hobby and a niche market. There are only so many of us, and therefore only so much money to support companies like DTG and the other makers of rail sims. There are probably 1000x more flight sim customers, and by the time we get to shooters like CoD, the multiplier approaches infinite. And that equally applies to the number of paid human persons involved in making them. Here's a fun exercise: fire up Red Dead Redemption 2, open the credits, and start a timer.....

    In other words, there will never be a train sim studio on the scale of EA or Rockstar or Ubisoft or Microsoft- if there were it would go bankrupt almost immediately, because there isn't enough of a customer base to keep all those programmers and artists paid. But that is the size studio required to produce the sort of every-knob-and-switch detail asked for.
     
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  37. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    The F7 is beautiful, I can't wait to see the texture applied to see what it will look like.

    I don't care what's behind it, I'm going to spend my time driving not admiring the engine.

    Anyway no matter what I like this route, the US routes are so awesome for freight, the Sand Patch has been my favorite route for 3 years now and I feel the Clinchfield is going to be in my top 3.

    If I had to make a bad remark then it would be the lack of a SW1000 style shunter.
     
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  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    After I posted this, I recalled that, in response to an earlier thread, DTG said that higher prices would not change the quality of their final product, an answer I found somewhat peculiar at the time and still do. Catch 22?
     
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  39. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    More likely SW7 or NW2 Switchers for this route (CRR doesn't have SW1000s). But, hopefully for a future add-on.
     
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  40. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the F7B's will be treated as a DMU of sorts, only being able to be selected in A-B-A or A-B-B-A consists, with all control coming from the A-Unit.
     
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  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Necessarily. While some EMD B-units were built with "hostler" controls (a rudimentary control stand, for self-shunting only), I don't believe Clinchfield bought that option. And they certainly were never capable of independent mainline operation.
     
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  42. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Well then, that makes me wonder how the F7 is gonna be on the livery editor. Would it be as separate units (which makes sense) or as an A+B set-up (Like the MUs). Weird thought I know, since they can be detached from one to another after all.
     
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  43. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I agree. And as far as driving down a branch- or mainline is concerned, that's absolutely fine. I do wonder, however, if the F7 sets (no matter the exact make up; AA, ABA, ABBA, ...) will be able to de-couple. I'm referring to services about switching power, for example, removing or adding F7As or F7Bs to your consist and the like. Time will tell, I guess.
     
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  44. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    DTG smells passion lately. It is important.
     
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  45. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Especially for those Clienchfield articles
     
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  46. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I also wonder how DTG would work out the fact that in service mode a clinchfield A unit, an ATSF B unit, and a Pennsy B unit and A unit could spawn in your consist.:D
     
  47. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    That’ll be one interesting setup, we still don’t know how we’ll be able to paint the F7 A & B, whether it’ll be in pairs of one A unit and one B unit or paint each unit individually, and how the spawning of random repainted F7s problem would be fixed, as it’s unrealistic to have an ATSF A unit coupled to a clinchfield B unit.
     
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  48. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, the setups for all the F7 scenarios on the TS202X version of CRR are A-B-B-A. If DTG sticks with that, it's a straightforward MU arrangement, I guess. I was fiddling around in the cab and couldn't find the dynamic brake! Sounds are pretty good though.
     
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  49. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, what I would do if I were setting up the F7s for the livery editor, is make it an A-B mu in the editor, then when it spawns in game, the game would spawn on A-B set facing forwards, and an A-B set in the same livery facing backwards.
     
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  50. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    With the recent Class 465 release, DTG has put a lot into it and I adore it.
    This brings new higher expectations for me and this route.
    As the livery designer goes, will we have 2 sets of A-B pairs or single pairs. How will we be able to choose this as well.
    Many questions are rising and hopefully we get answers soon.
    Only time will tell however.
     
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