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Tsw2 The Nippy Networker

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    For me the value comes from the experience of a new train, something which the 375 failed to deliver.
     
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  2. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Keep dreaming
     
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  3. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Hey, the Class 377 from East Coastway partly included some sounds from Armstrong Powerhouse. It wouldn't be completely unreasonable to assume they can get in touch again for the Class 465 :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  4. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.
     
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  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Networker" was the BR name for the whole related family, originally the 165, 365 and 465. Certainly they are hard to tell apart visually, except for the headlights and other small details.
     
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  6. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t DLC’s come out with 3 or more locos back in the day? With TSW 2, the most we’ve seen is 2. I think they realized they can make more money by locking one or more of the locos behind a paywall. Yes, I know they have to make money, but I’d happily pay extra for a package deal, e.g. a route with 5 locos.

    As for the 465, I don’t think I’ll personally buy it. There’s nothing wrong with it but it doesn’t really interest me, especially since it adds nothing new to the route in terms of services. But for those who enjoy it, I think it will deliver.

    Definitely looking forward to Clinchfield soon!
     
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  7. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    There was SPG, GWE, and TVL—unless you want to include cab cars, in which case RSN, MSB, and SFJ would be included. Thus far, there has only been two locomotives per TSW2 route at most, even if you include cab cars.

    Cheers
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Also NTP
     
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  9. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Doh! I forgot about the 101. Thanks.

    Cheers
     
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  10. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    it looks nice but why should I buy this one? For me it depends on additional gameplay, not just more of the same stuff. I tend to wait for a good sale.
     
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  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite understand why it doesn't come with its own timetable. RL 465s run different services from the Electrostars, why couldn't they be reproduced?

    Even as humble a loco as the BR 204 came with its own timetable and three scenarios.
     
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  12. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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    The services that the 465 run are already in the game they won't take out content for the ones that will not buy 465
     
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  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They were originally similar when first built, but subsequent refurbs have meant that some now have distinct variations depending on region
    The smiley trains can't be confused for a 465!
     
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  14. johnmcglade17

    johnmcglade17 Member

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    is the 465 going to come with Sheerness branch
     
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  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nowadays IRL 465s run maybe 2 services a day along the CML, 465/466 from Strood to Paddock Wood or Tonbridge and metro services from Gravesend into London

    So you'd only see a couple on the CML, a unit sat on P3 at Strood and between Gravesend and Northfleet at most. DTG have already said that the Gravesend to Rainham and Gravesend to Faversham services weren't included as default in the route, but when everyone complained about the services on the route they put the 375 in as a stopgap to fill the services up for release, and it's this service layer which will substitute the 465 if someone buys it.
    Matt did say that many of these services are actually 9Pxx services run by Thameslink 700s IRL but they've subbed in the 375 and soon the 465 for these in game
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    No, this has been confirmed multiple times by DTG
     
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  17. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind routes coming with just two new vehicles and more added later. I am more upset about the fact so many "new" vehicles are basically remakes of different ones, not brand new. Granted it increases work needed for a DLC, but it would significantly help the attractiveness. Looking at the roadmap SD40-2 is going to appear TWICE again and we already have it. Hamburg-Lübbeck basically has a slightly different BR143 and a reskin for BR182. BR218 instead of BR112 would go a great length to make that DLC an instant grab. Same for SD40-2 on Clinchfield being replaced by GP7 high nose, AC4400W on Cane Creek replaced by SD70Ace or here begin with 395+465 combination. Yes, this narrows potential for loco DLCs, but those have been mentioned to sell way worse than routes anyway. Why not make routes way more attractive, to begin with, and sell way more. Having two completely different trains on SEHS would make me buy it rather than now. No need to launch a route with a complete roster of locomotives, just give me two really interesting ones.
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    One word at the moment... COVID
    A lot harder to physically go out and investigate and research new locos to build so repurposing existing models is probably much easier than creating new from scratch
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Loco DLC never adds parts of a route, just trains and services.
    I believe that was the original plan but then as part of the considerable feedback to the first preview people were complaining there weren’t enough services, so the 465 services were added to the 375 timetable to increase the services in the base route, which rendered the 465 as a substitution loco only.
     
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  20. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    So the 465 is doing same services as 375.
     
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  21. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Yes , the 465 is just a substitution for the 375
     
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  22. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Would be SEHS as that's the new route. So screenshots of 465 on SEHS.
     
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  23. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Will be getting it. So route has more variety
     
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  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    On the Gravesend to Faversham or Rainham services and a couple of Victoria to Faversham services the 465 will sub in for the 375, the 375 has a lot of Victoria to East Kent services which it runs almost exclusively so hopefully we won't see random subbing, but specific services which the 465 does (or has in the past) run

    I don't want to see a 465 doing a regular Victoria - Ramsgate service for example as it wouldn't do that IRL, but a Gravesend to Rainham is almost acceptable (though it should really be a TL700)
     
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  25. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    No. Clinchfield is coming with an SD40.
     
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  26. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get this information? Is it your assumption? Can you let us know the source? I did not rad this anywhere.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Matt said it on stream last week or the week before.
     
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  28. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.
     
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  29. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    465’s have done Dover Priory slow services not entirely unrealistic if they go to Faversham
     
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  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but past Rainham you should see maybe one 465, between Rainham and Rochester 1 or 2, between Rochester and Gravesend 1 and between Gravesend and Northfleet maybe 2 (all coming the other way of course)
    You might also expected to see some stopped at Rochester P3 in the evening rush as some services terminate there
    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J18341/2021-02-17/detailed - example of a 90mph (so 465) service terminating at Rochester P3
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  31. Bacon_BMW

    Bacon_BMW Active Member

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    I am slightly concerned that we're going to see an over abundance of 465s. It's a lovely addition, but I can't help but to feel as if we're going to get the same kind of feel as if you create a single livery and it starts being applied to half the route.
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a lot of variation in real life. The 465s all look the same, the 395s all look the same (bar "the bow"), the 700s all look the same (that has a bow too but not on the North Kent lines I believe), the 375s are all dark blue and we don't get too many freightliner 66s down this way so even freight locos are the same. The 59s are a welcome break a couple of times a day but they're not in game
     
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  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    But many of these have already been researched for TS1, haven't they? Not like you take low-resolution photos just because it's for a less detailed game. All of the trains mentioned are there IIRC. This explanation also doesn't apply for SEHS as the other vehicle clearly has been researched.
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not all of the locos in TS1 started out as DTG locos. Many are Kuju, RSC, BMG etc and although quite a lot of that remains in DTG, that wouldn't be the case for all of it, and it's not just how it looks but the simugraph aspect as well

    The DTG office is in Chatham, the SEHS route runs within 2 miles of their office and Matt has stated he did research on it pre-COVID
    Bit of a difference between "popping down the road" and going to Germany or the US
     
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  35. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    But for example, Clinchfield has been done very recently. It features four locomotives in TS1 and is also longer. High nose GP7 is therefore probably well researched anyway and could be featured instead of relatively similar SD40.
    That's the point. Even with their office so close the route itself features only one new unit and one reskin, not two new units. The reskin in talk also had so little work put into it that it inherited all the bugs of its predecessor. Such an approach to rolling stock really hinders the potential of new routes.
     
  36. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    In SEHS’ case, I think they made the right choice including the 375 as the supporting unit, since it’s the 375 that provides most of the services along the CML, if we had the 465 as the included unit, the route would be lifeless.

    I agree that it’s pretty shocking that minimal work went into the 375, but I’m much happier to pay for a 465 with no additional services, than I would be if I had to pay for the 375 with additional services.
     
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  37. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    And also getting the Armstrong Powerhouse enhancement sounds for the 465!
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Which begs the question, why do they have 375s running 465 services to begin with?
     
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  39. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    To increase route traffic.

    The MVL & CML are quite awkward in terms of where the start and end points are in game, so you’re left with having to decide between lots of smaller services that only run a couple of stations, supported by non operable AI portal runs, or, just biting the bullet and letting some realism slip for the sake of gameplay.

    Realistically we should have the 700 running most of the services from Gravesend.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  40. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    There has been multiple discussions of how the 465 will just be a substitution for the 375 on the forums and on many railfan tv streams so look there
     
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  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It would seem then that the logical thing to do would be, IF the 465 is installed, is to have it replace the AI 375s on the appropriate services (the player can of course choose either in Timetable, although I can't see the Networker handling the expresses). Those who don't purchase it just have the 375 for everything.
     
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  42. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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  43. Sprinter

    Sprinter Active Member

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    After the patch the SEHS route is so much better. And the Class395 sounds are enjoyable now. It is very relaxing driving this route. Can't wait for the 465 to come out, and have even more fun:)
     
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  44. Bacon_BMW

    Bacon_BMW Active Member

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    I was more talking about how throws the available loco's and liveries in a random pool resulting in unrealistic amounts of each on a route. E.g. I made a leased loco livery for Sand Patch and half of the loco's had the livery applied.
     
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  45. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    AFAIR it was only the EMU's which were referred to AS "Networker"? (Although at the design stage they may have been known as the "Networker" family or "Networker" project?)

    I always thought the Class 165 and Class 166 were known as "Turbo" - "Thames Turbo" and "Chiltern Turbo". (And the Class 159 were just known as 159 Turbo's?)




     
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  46. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I recall 166s being referred to as Networker Turbo, so it is possibly a case of "all of the above".

    Cheers
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AIUI, the 165s were introduced as "Networkers," and then the speedier 166s as "Networker Turbos." Only the last bit has stuck, especially since, as you say, Network Southeast branded the commuter services "Thames Turbo" and "Chiltern Turbo" no matter which model;* but in the late 80s/early 90s BR were concerned with making a marketing push out of the replacement of their aging first-gen DMUs, and the overall name "Networker" was part of that.

    *And after all, both models (like nearly all diesel trains) are turbocharged!
     
  48. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    No. The Class 165s were originally known as Network Turbos (note that it is not Networker, just Network). Later Networkers were officially known as Networkers, including the 465/466 and 365s, with the diesel 166s being Networker Turbos. The Networker was originally going to be more than a family of trains, but a programme to replace slam door stock in the south east. The many variations of these designs, like the Class 371 and 342, were never built. There were individual brands for the different trains, like Thames and Chiltern Turbo and Kent Link Networker, but that wasn't unique for the Networker family.

    The Turbostars (presumably named after the Turbo designation used on 165s and 166s) and Electrostars were based on the Networker design and, considering their hand in replacing slam door trains, could be interpreted as an alternate Networker programme, and one far larger in scope than the original, reaching the far north of Scotland to South Africa.
     
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  49. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Matt P said in my stream that they had licensed the AP sounds for this version.
     
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  50. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    No need to dream. Matt P said it has AP sounds when visiting my stream.
     
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