Tsw2 Vr Support Release Date.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Hi all.

    I was just wondering if and when this will be released? I’m a huge sim fan and I’ve pulled the trigger and bought one after hearing a friend verbally gush about one for weeks for assetto and fs2020. Are there any plans to be able to push and pull knobs and turn buttons on tsw?

    Has this (I’m thinking of what Sam says about the roadmap and stuff not being there so guessing not) been missed off?

    DTG Natster
    DTG Protagonist

    thank you
     
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  2. involvedmass

    involvedmass Member

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    VR is currently not on the roadmap as you said, so it's not being released anytime in the near future.
    They also said recently on a stream, mentioning this survey, that VR had come in last place (or close to last at least) when users were asked to order 10-15 new features (VR, multiplayer, dynamic/real weather, etc) to be added to the game.
     
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  3. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Gutted, that’s a shame.
     
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  4. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It is not. DTG asked users about priorities and VR was at the very bottom of the priority list. This may be disappointing for you personally, but please do not call it a shame. From the perspective of the whole community, only a small percentage thinks VR is an important feature. Top of the list are random events, e.g. a small delay, a bit of longer waiting time so variety for the timetable will increase.
     
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  5. DeJaPa

    DeJaPa Member

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    I understand the wish for VR support, as I have an VR set my own.
    But I also understand the point of view from Sam and DTG in General.

    In all honesty, VR is still a niche, VR sets be it Oculus, be it HTC, be it Valve, aren't as widespread or common yet. At least not in the Train Sim community. Although, you could argue that this could be a classic 'chicken and egg, who came first' problem.

    The only way, it could move up in priorities is there would be more and more people requesting such a feature, through surveys (like they did before New Years). But I don't think it would be realistic that the number of VR players would outgrow the non-VR player base. ;)

    You could say that it's the downside of being an 'early adopter' to VR. Just be patient, eventually there will be a Train Sim that will support VR. Be it TSW2 or something else.

    In the mean time you could do stuff like Derail Valley to scratch your itch. ;)
     
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  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    VR will never catch on universally. It’s always going to be a niche thing. When I’m driving trains on TSW, I’m also still engaging in real life around me. I like to be able to see who or what is in the room, see what the cat is up to, read and send text messages, glance out of the window to see who is passing by, hear a knock at the door, see my partner’s face. Normal things. I think most people are the same. Wanting to completely shut out the real world when playing a game, or doing anything similar, seems a very alien and un-human thing to do. That’s what VR does, it alienates. Some people like it but not many. I doubt it will ever come to TSW.
     
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  7. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    I totally understand the niche aspect, but it really is a game changer. After using VR with flight sims, going back to flat screen is not nice. The immersion is perfect, the closest you can get to reality. For example the Zibo mod with Xplane is just like the real thing in VR - no need to get a pilots licence! And I think it is a shame that VR came bottom of the list. Should be ahead of any mastery, livery designer, all my humble opinion of course!
    But yes, I do understand all the points above. Also,performance needs to be at least 45fps - or half that at a push (or 30 in oculus?). If not, a very jerky experience ensues which is terrible!
     
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  8. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I am a very big enthusiast and supporter of VR. It is definitely a game changer, BUT I understand and support the community’s ranking of the technology. It is a niche product as Sam has stated and with the cost of the hardware and the power of the rig required to acceptably run VR titles, it will remain a small percentage of the overall marketplace.

    The other aspect is just adding VR to a title that all ready challenges many systems, would be least than spectacular. On my system, which runs normal FS2020 on high settings well, falls over and whimpers when I try VR and I am in the process and tuning my settings in order to get an acceptable experience. This means that while FS2020 supports VR, I will probably using it without when I want a quality visual experience and in VR when I want the immersive feeling of flight.

    Because of these realities of the current VR technologies, I fully agree with DTG’s stance on VR.
     
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  9. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    This.
    Derail Valley is well optimised for VR and a fun game to boot. Sadly it will be a long time before DTG get around to VR, it came last in the user survey wishlist as someone mentioned. Not entirely convinced either that UE4 is a good engine for VR.
     
  10. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    How do you sign up to get the next survey
     
  11. involvedmass

    involvedmass Member

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    Yep I feel the same way
    There was no signing up for this survey, the only way I found it was that Sam mentioned it on one of the livestreams. And it wasn't up for very long I think.

    In my opinion they should automatically send future TSW surveys to all members who have been active on this part of the forum, since I would think most users here would be very likely to actually answer it and give it some thought. But it was posted on the Announcement subforum, so I guess the only other option is to check there regularly, or use the watch feature on that subforum.
     
  12. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I concur on DeRail Valley for those who want a VR experience with trains.--
     
  13. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    So basically, it was hidden, on purpose or not no-one knows
     
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  14. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    hardly.
    Look at:
    Announcements. Posted Dec 21st.
    3rd post down.
    TSW Player Survey Winter 2020.

    What do you expect. A posting on every sub forum or maybe a personal email.
     
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  15. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    They should put the survey where people are, like here, but if they hide it where people are not
     
  16. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    I wasn't aware of a survey, but I don't frequent facebook or delve into forums partucularly often. I guess that applies to a fair few folks but there you go. Maybe if they put a link in the actual game when you fire it up it may encourage people to vote?
     
  17. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    allot of the time anything important is posted in announcements so I usually just check every so often that's mainly due to me checking all chats though in tsw
     
  18. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    But to say it was hidden on purpose to me seems bizarre and counter productive to what dtg would want to do
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If you sign up for email updates from DTG you get informed of when there is a survey. It’s fairly well advertised.
     
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  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m on forums everyday and to be fair I didn’t see as I only come in the pc discussion section. Personally for me I’d be more likely to catch wind of it if I saw it in game on a load screen in the same way dlcs are advertised
     
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  21. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    To confirm, we have no plans to introduce VR. It is a particularly niche market and we are not working on it.

    If you are looking for a more interactive experience and more types of buttons to use, we have recently introduced Raildriver support on PC.
     
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  22. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    VR coming bottom of the list in the survey was surprising. I would have thought more people have VR across all platforms than Raildriver for example which is PC only and certainly more niche than VR
     
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  23. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think they could have added a lot more things to the list and VR support would still have been at the bottom. It’s just not necessary for a train simulator. Overall, Raildriver may be more niche than VR but it fits better with a train simulator. I’d wager more people already have a Raildriver than want VR to be supported by train simulators. Different crowds.
     
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  24. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    Fair enough Stu. Just wondering if you've tried VR? If so, no worries, but if not I think you'd be mightily impressed with the immersion it gives. Flight sims are great, after trying them in VR it's hard to go back to a flat screen. I'm 99% sure TSW would be the same. But yes, I get the niche argument and yes you still need a powerful PC to run it smoothly with good res.
    Derail valley is impressive, but ideally I'd like something more UK based.
     
  25. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why I'm strongly discouraged to give it a go. I've tried it, and it is certainly a completely new experience, but it also severely shuts you from the rest of the environment.
     
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  26. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I've had my chance to try VR, but it made me feel dizzy, which, as far as I'm told, is a problem many people experience while using VR.

    I could be one of those people rating VR at the bottom during the survey, although I can't exactly remember. It might've been multiplayer I've put at the bottom spot :P
     
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  27. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t tried VR for a couple of reasons. The main reason is that I don’t want to be cut off from the space I’m in. Secondly, I don’t have particularly good eyesight, having amblyopia in one eye (I can only focus with the other eye), and need reading glasses due to my age. Thirdly, I have varying degrees of sensitivity to light, and a thing called visual stress. All of which would most likely cause issues when wearing the headset. I know this might be more info than you wanted but it’s worth saying I think.

    Even if I didn’t have any issues with my eyesight I just wouldn’t want to wear a VR headset while playing. I get why others do though. I’m sure the immersion is fantastic and I can see the appeal of it for those who don’t consider any of the things I described in earlier posts as drawbacks, and don’t suffer from vision problems or the motion sickness.

    My reasons for not wanting it in TSW aren’t really connected to me not wanting it personally though, that’s mainly down to what I think the priorities should be for development and the optimisation of the whole game.
     
  28. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I have found VR to open a whole new world for me in Flight simulation as well as traditional gaming -- Skyrim VR is breath taking - Half Life Alyx was as close to the Star Trek Holo-deck experience as I have ever experienced. Exploring Google Earth in VR and seeing the area I have visited or will never ever be able to visit is entertaining. Even at the ripe old age of 64 - I am like a kid in some of the VR experiences I have had.

    That being said - I have to agree with stujoy that because of the niche population, DTG has made the right decision with respect to VR -- Of course I feel the same toward Multiplayer as well - nothing against it, probably wouldn't utilize it myself - Feel there are more pressing features to work on instead of Multiplayer. With both of these features - there are vocal groups that discuss the issues - but doubtful whether either would add masses of new users to the franchise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m surprised of how split this is. Waiting for my own and first VR to arrive I was thinking of my library and how cool it would be to really be in the train. Each to their own but I have to say I’m surprised people don’t want to fully immerse.

    Appreciate it’s not being worked on though and how people feel about it. With a wheel, a flight yoke and about 5k put into my pc this year rail drivers definitely not a purchase for me though.
     
  30. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'm not. I think the community is pretty much split up about a large number of subjects, be it VR, multiplayer, steam trains, or yet another UK route. Some people will love it, some people couldn't care less.

    For those who like VR, and have invested in VR equipment, it makes perfect sense for them to wish for VR in TSW. For those who have no interest in VR, for whatever reason, and thus did not invest in VR equipment, we'd rather see DTG put resources to develop another feature instead of VR.
     
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  31. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    Yes, VR wouldn't work well in your case Stujoy.....sorry to hear about your eye problems.
    I agree with your last point, I just hope DTG don't concentrate on stuff like mastery and the livery editor which don't appeal to me. But then again they obviously appeal to others. If they can get things like UK signalling sorted (approach control), weather changes and hopefully some degree of randomisation/delay etc in the timetable I'd be really pleased.
    But as it stands it is a great sim, I'm already very pleased with the sim, I play it a lot and things look great for the future. DTG have done well!
     
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  32. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Hello,

    Good discussions on VR here on recent topics: -
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/argument-for-vr.32702/#post-224206

    and

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/vr.32707/#post-222996

    Long short of it is, it's too much of a resource sink for DTG for such a small cross section of their players/users. It will never be implemented on this basis. If 66% of your market is console, then it's all over. I don't think even the hardware in the new generation of consoles would support VR and give the experience that could be achieved with the PC.

    I think our only hope now is if DTG create a professional arm of their business i.e. professional customers for industry with specific requirements. Sim developers have managed to grow their business where the casual or 'game' arm of the their business has benefited from features that have been developed for their professional customers and vice versa.

    Companies are in search of cheaper simulation solutions. A full motion simulator with a support contract can cost anywhere from £5 - £80 million depending on the application. A powerful desktop pc with some software is starting to present it's self as a real solution to and is actually used by air-forces across the world, I'm sure railway companies across the world would hear what DTG would have to say.

    It's a shame for the people like me and others that get completely get blown by the away by the immersion every time we put our goggles on, however I also completely accept DTG's current stance as it's logical.

    Kind regards

    Richard
     
  33. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Although it's not going to happen anytime soon in TSW2, I seriously think VR is something that could give TS1 a second wind. The engine is quite dated and more likely to be able to maintain a half decent frame rate (tile loading stutters notwithstanding), and the sedentary fixed driving perspective means it shouldn't be too complicated to develop. Interface-wise, mouse support and a minimal menu should be sufficient.
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't support vr either simply because I don't own a VR headset at all. Not everyone who plays this game has VR especially if your on Xbox. So Im not suprised it was at the bottom since only a small group of people may actually own VR
     
  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of VR but like Stujoy I am at an age where I need two pairs of glasses! I also have a cat who demands attention everytime I sit down! Also, living on my own I think it would feel very strange wearing a VR helmet, not being able to hear the door or the telephone ringing.
     
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  36. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Same here I do like the idea of VR like Stujoy and theorganist I am at a age where I have to wear glasses as well. Also like theorganist I too have a cat that seems to want more attention when I want to play.
     
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  37. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I do use noise canceling headphones, but that's mainly for the wife's benefit. She's not a big fan of 16 cylinder diesel engines. But I can still hear the world around me. I also couldn't do VR, it's for the younger folks I think. I imagine it would work well for a train simulator, though. But not for me. And not, apparently, for DTG. So, there it is.
     
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  38. Kazick

    Kazick Member

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    One of the big things I think that is getting left out or not considered in the discussion of VR is the larger VR market as whole. Every time adding VR to TSW gets brought up is the same argument. "Oh its not worth it because its such a small market." And I firmly believe this to be false. Maybe if you looked at just the number of people who have both TSW AND a VR headset then yes it would be small. But looking at some Steam stats 25% of the steam user base, one quarter of it, has at least 1 VR headset of some type. Doing some dirty back of the napkin math looking at Steams on stats of 24,587,501 active user's that works out to 6,146,875 user's who have VR headsets. Now that number will probably be off +/- due to things like people who no longer own the headsets lowing it, or people who don't have Steam but do have VR, and even VR on consoles. But the fact remains there are a good number of people out there who do have VR.

    So rather than phrase it as though you are offering VR ONLY to people who all ready own TSW. Consider all the new and potential customers who all ready own VR and are looking for new experiences. Think about this, look at what FS2020 did for flight sims. Before FS2020 came out a good majority of the people playing flight sims where hardcore flight simmers. People who would spend hundreds of dollars on hardware to play these sims and spend countless hours playing them. Then FS2020 comes along with the most detailed version of Earth in a sim ever, beats out using Orthos and other satellite imagery in things like X-Plane and suddenly people who have never picked up a flight simulator are jumping on board. So I have said this in another post, but for things like long flgihts in X-Plane I dont feel VR works for me. But in FS2020 its super nice to be able to toggle between VR and not VR in flight. Case and point, I did a flight last night. Taxied from parking to the run way, took off, and climbed to my cursing altitude all in VR. Once there, I toggled off the VR and got up from my desk, made some food and did a few other chores. Then when it was time to descend and land, I toggled back on my VR and got ready to land. Did my landing and taxi back to parking all in VR. It was a very rewarding experience.

    And lastly, we don't need full motion controller support. Just let me wear the VR to look around and I can use my Raildriver or mouse and keyboard or Xbox controller for everything else. Yes it would be nice to have full motion controller support, but seeing as we only got 50% raildriver support so far I can only picture what using only my left hand to drive a train would be like. It is DTG after all.

    Long story short though, if the survey says the people who have TSW don't want VR, they don't want VR. Its probably also a lot of people who for one reason or another couldn't run VR any ways. (Don't have the PC to run it, or the money to buy it.) But the survey isn't a good metric to use here. And also, they cant sell VR as a DLC, so why bother with it.
     
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  39. kevint1972

    kevint1972 New Member

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    Speaking as a VR headset owner, the extra immersion it gives to simulation games can't be overstated and it really brings the scenery to life. Since the VR upgrade, Flight Simulator is a whole new experience. I spend most of the flights peering out of the cockpit window watching the cities and mountains go past.

    The potential in TSW2 is just as great in my opinion, not just in driving the trains but riding on them, exploring the platforms and watching other trains go by. I think you'd be surprised how many casual VR games would be interested.

    By the way for those who wear glasses, there is a website called vroptician.com that will make you up a pair of lens adaptors for any prescription for a reasonable sum so no need to wear glasses underneath the headset.
     
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  40. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I recently obtained an oculus quest two as my first vr headset. I’m not a young gamer but bought it specifically for sims to try from the things I may never see in flesh.

    my personal experience is it took a little setting up but I’ve never tried anything like it. It’s indescribable immersion. Look down at my watch and it’s not there, it’s a steering wheel and race suit. Sat in a 70s racing car, look over my shoulder and I see 4 carburettors, race round track anD I can se everything . Best £400 I ever spent and it made me think how it could transport real life or gaming drivers into any train, look around etc.

    you’re right it’s a Growing niche, but I’d recommend anyone try. My 68 year old dad took a rollercoaster ride yesterday and loved it. With oculus it does also have a spacer so you can wear glasses. Genuinely changed sims for me forever yesterday
     
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  41. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Same, although I used to have a Valve Index, however the Quest 2 is a delight in that you don't need a PC for the built-in games, and it's wireless. I am opting for some WidMovr prescription lenses as I don't like wearing my glasses with it on. You have to give Derail Valley a try!
     
  42. jamster47

    jamster47 Member

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    VR may be a niche now but its only going to get bigger. I have the reverb g2 and flight sim in vr is breathtaking along with other games and experiences. Imagine sitting in the train cab and feeling like you are there as you move around, or stick your head out of the window to check the platform is clear.
    I agree that other things are a priority but it will be a shame if its dismissed.
    Remember Nokia saying no one would want touch screen phones and they won’t catch on.......?
     
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  43. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Well-Known Member

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    I own a VR headset and VR still was near the bottom of my list in this survey. Reason is that I simply don't think TSW is ready for VR yet. First of all, the performance needs to improve for VR to be enjoyable (remember, most VR headsets run at refresh rates of 90Hz or higher). This is even more important considering VR tends to be somewhat more work-intensive to render than traditional 2D images.
    Next, I want to see some of the other features from that list before I want VR. This however only is my opinion and could be different for anybody else.
    This does not mean I don't want VR, maybe ask me in 2 years and my opinion will have changed. However for the moment I don't want VR because I don't think TSW is ready yet.
     
  44. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Amen to all these points.

    For non-VR users that haven't tried VR, I'll try and explain the immersion or 'step change' you get on FS2020 and DCS world from 2D to VR.

    Non-VR : sitting in a cardboard box with a picture of a cockpit/cab scribbled in front of you in crayon and your mum making the the mooeeeeeoooooooon noises.

    VR: occasionally remembering that your in a game.

    Once you go 3D, you can't go back - the Pandora's box of expectation is opened forever.

    Kind regards

    Richard Lowe
     
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  45. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just thought I would share something I tried tonight.

    I have an occulus quest 2 and link cable and I had a little brainwave tonight. This comes with a function called Virtual Desktop ( you can perhaps see where I am going here) which enables me to see my desktop in a cinema like view through the Occulus. You can push and pull the screen further away.

    I fired up train sim and loaded a game and whilst not VR the increase in size from a 34" ultra wide monitor to this was pretty awesome. Whilst it's a windowed experience you can increase it so it's not in your immediate view.

    It made train sim feel awesome. I'm using a 2080ti and 10900 with 32gb ram and it ran at a decent pace.


    Downsides....
    You need to move the camera manually so obviously its not true VR.
    You need to be pretty special at remembering key placement unless you're using a peripheral.


    I'd encourage people to try and leave your thoughts below.
     
  46. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Someone created a TSW2 profile for VorpX, a program that allows you to play some non-vr games in VR. Word is that TSW2 works pretty well. Haven't tried it myself yet, but looks promising.
     
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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’ll have to take a look at this. I’m going to try some of the other trains but it was nice seeing things more 1 to 1 ratio. Thank you
     
  48. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I just gave it a try with VorpX and the results weren't very good. Perfectly playable in cinema mode but suffered from lots of jittering in true 3d mode and had lots of head tracking issues. I tried turning head tracking off and just use the mouse to look but it still wanted to track my head, and even worse, my head movements were being revered, so looking down in real life made me look up in game. Damn near lost my lunch.
     
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  49. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’ll stick with the cinema mode. I’m still getting used to the screen moving and the body not.
     
  50. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Tried this kind of thing with Windows Mixed Reality, it's really an awful long way from true VR. Haven't tried with Vorpex yet, but I remember trying Vorpex with TS Classic and it was pretty unplayable.

    Our best hope is for SimRail to give us VR, DTG might consider it then, although with 66% of TSW being console users, you might as well whistle!
     

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