Tsw2 Vr Support Release Date.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,438
    Likes Received:
    1,611
    No need for the video, I get what you mean in the same way a blind person can find their way around but it would take some getting used to. The main controls would be ok, but the rows of buttons - you'd have to count them from left in or right in.

    Paul
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    Guys,

    People misunderstand what VR is. Persons (including myself before I made the leap) just thought it was a screen in-front of your face, just a little closer. It's not. It's full on depth of immersion. VR uses your brain to fool you. The guy in the video below has always been slightly skeptical of VR, just watch his reaction below. 'OH THIS is what they were talking about". It's honestly night and day.
    A route has to tick so many boxes for me (personal opinion) to enjoy it as the 2D 'immersion' is poor. Watch below, the reaction is priceless:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Kazick

    Kazick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2020
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    52
    Its very had to show the advantage and experience you get in VR without just throwing a VR headset on someones head. Looking at VR game-play on a flat screen just looks like looking at a flat screen since depth and detail are hard to convey.

    This is because our eyes use binocular vision. You know, that thing that gives you depth perception. Your left eye sees everything from a slightly different angle than your right eye. This is also how the Coincidence ranger finder used on some WWII tanks and ships works.

    [​IMG]

    One way to demonstrate this is take your right hand and make it flat. Then but your thumbnail against the tip of your nose with your pointer finger touching between your eye brows. Once you do, go cross eyed and you’ll note that you can see the front and back of your hand at the same time. This is because both your eyes see a slightly different angle.

    This is the same way VR works. It renders the game from two slightly different angles and then feeds those rendered frames to each eye. Your brain then stitches the two images together into a 3 dimensional image and you see depth. This is called Stereoscopic vision If you where to do my little hand trick in a VR game, you'd get a similar result, you'd see both right and left sides of your hand. But in a flat game is rendered from just one point of view, just one eye.

    Another way to visualize stereoscopic vision is here:
    20210329185619_1.jpg
    Took this screen shot in VR mode in FS2020. This is exactly what is rendered in VR. You can note a few things in each eye that are different. Like the right two switches in the left eye, you cant see them as well in the right eye.

    Long story short, the view you get in VR is hard to convey to someone not using VR.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  4. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    1,031
    I agree VR is great but using the RailDriver will be very awkward. Yes the main controls will be easy enough but as Paul said the two rows of buttons at the bottom will be very clumsy to use especially for me. Either a newer controller has to be made for the VR headset or the controls in the VR has to be simplified more so the main controls on the RD are used or it is gamepad only.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Kazick

    Kazick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2020
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    52
    I think the work around to that is make it so the buttons are uniform across all locomotives. So that button bottom row 10 does the same thing across all locomotives. This would just help with building that muscle memory. But I also don't see everyone who has VR also having a Raildriver. The Raildriver is a fairly niche controller.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    Honestly I think you either use the standard game controller e.g xbox controller, where all buttons and controls can be clearly used without sight, or you do motion controls and operate the 3d controls in the cab itself, like Derail Valley.

    Trying to access the 10th button along the row regardless of if it has standardised functionality or not is going to be difficult for anyone to do without massively breaking that immersion while you feel along the row of buttons. Even using an xbox controller doesn't really break the immersion because while there's a disconnect between what actions you take and what the real actions would be - you're not having to think about it, you can instinctively press a throttle trigger or press B to answer an alarm etc so you aren't taken out of the immersion.

    My preference for a sim like this would probably a combination of the two. Not everyone will get along with the motion control approach or may not have a real-space which allows them to access everything without a lot of messing around (British homes and computer spaces are significantly smaller than the US ones much of this is designed for) - so let those people just use a standard controller so they can enjoy the presence and immersion of VR.

    Re: the discussion about how to explain or demo VR - I just tell people that it's like you're there, it really is, you will be in that world and your brain will be completely fooled. Everything will be 3D, you will be able to look over and around things, everything you would expect to be able to do in reality you'll be able to do in VR. It's just perfectly natural... and then I don't expect anyone to get what that means until they actually try it.

    Matt.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  7. Kazick

    Kazick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2020
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    52
    On one hand I want to agree with you. I use my raildriver all the time in other sims particularly in Run8. I use bottom row button 10 all the time there. (Its the bleed air breaks button useful when running the hump yard.) Because of this, I know where the button it just from repetition. But I can agree that if sitting with the Raildriver and VR and you had to remember what row and what button is what to press to do something so you have to peek under the VR to look can take away from the experience. But this is also why I point out making each button do the same thing across all locomotives.

    Solid example of how standardizing the buttons. helps. I play several flight game in VR and use a HOTAS for them. (I use a Yoke in X-Plane and FS2020) Elite Dangerous, DCS World, and Aces High 3. While all these games feature different ways of flying from space ships to modern multi role jets to WWII fighters they have a few common controls. Landing gear, landing lights, pitch, roll, yaw, thrust. All of those I have mapped to the same key on my HOTAS. So regardless of what I am flying, button 7 is landing gear. Trigger is all ways guns. Yes I have to take my hands off the stick to press the the #7 button, but because it's always landing gear, and because I have taught my brain where it is, it became scond habit to just reach down with out even looking and press it.
    post-119325-0-34432800-1493505738.jpg
    (Ignore the labels that others have used on this image.)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Allsop4

    Allsop4 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    23
    Yeah. That's the achilles heel of VR. It can't be marketed conventionally with videos or screenshots. It's why we hardly see commercials for it. It's all word of mouth. If I had a nickel for every time I said "You gotta try it"...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    The difference between the raildriver and your HOTAS setup, is that HOTAS are specifically designed to allow blind-usage - by using small clusters of buttons and locating bumps (same as your keyboard has on J and F, and on the 5 key on the number keypad) you can easily make up to a 3 x 3 usable blind. The 3x2 arrangements in the diagram above are all also uniquely shaped so you can really quickly feel the shape of the boundary for example.

    The minute you have 12 or so identical keys horizontally without any locating bumps you're really going to be lost at sea with anything other than the 3 at either end practically. knowing that one in the middle is a specific function doesn't help me if i can't actually find it easily.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  10. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    1,031
    One simple way of getting a usable control system in VR is to just use the mouse. It will need a tutorial probably in game to identify where everything is but would be immersive no if done properly? Console owners could then use a gamepad.

    The whole point of VR is to give a realistic experience, if you had to press the switches manually then it would be.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,438
    Likes Received:
    1,611
    I have tried VR and really expensive commercial head sets are good. The consumer ones unfortunately make me barf. I look forward to the tech improving in consumer land so I can join in too :).
     
  12. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    I guess the thing with the occulus is they are developing the pass through technology now and you can incorporate virtual versions of things into your game. I know you drop your sofa or desk into the game. I'm sure there would be a modder that could tinker and enable you you drop your raildriver in
     
  13. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    205
    Performance is so important in VR. Any stuttering and it's not a pleasant experience at all. But when it runs smooth it's unbeatable. If you're feeling sick it's most likely due to irregular FPS. I think some sets can go as low as 22fps for a decent experience now thorugh some kind of new tech.

    You need v good PC for it, both CPU and GPU, those are quite expensive at the mo! I'm running an i7770k with a 1080 and it's just about OK in DCS/MSFS etc, but struggles at times.

    I've a feeling TSW would be OK with my setup, but would struggle at the busy terminus stations.

    TrackIR etc is the next best thing, so looking forward to that being implemented.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    I have a VR Headset and I don’t think it would work well with TSW2 at the moment.

    The most important thing is being able to get and keep a constant frame rate. Ideally for my headset (HP Reverb G2) that should be 90fps or 45 FPS with reprojection. My machine has a 3080 and an I9 - it still can only run some games at the lower end of the settings. This is fine your brain paints in a lot of the details when it’s that immersive. Problem is with TSW2, getting a constant frame rate is hard. The best you can do is set a frame rate cap. That doesn’t help in DLC like HMA where the frame rate is low in Munich.

    There are also the stutters In TSW2 and in my experience that is what makes you feel sick.

    So would I like VR in TSW? - Yes, but I don’t think he current engine is anywhere near good enough to support it in a comfortable way. There are a lot of other things I would like to see fixed first.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,438
    Likes Received:
    1,611
    i510700k + RTX 3070 I manage a steady 60fps at 2K so should be ok for this sort of thing :). My kid has a headset on his machine, I do have Derail Valley - maybe I'll give it a crack and see how it goes with a decent frame rate.
     
  16. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Regarding frame rates in particular. Just because you get good FPS outside VR, doesn’t mean you’ll get them in VR. One of my favourite VR games is Project Cars 2. Normally at 1440p, I’m getting in excess of 200fps. Far more than my monitors refresh rate. In VR I struggle to get 90fps. Hopefully things improve over time.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. railhub#5135

    railhub#5135 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2021
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    36
    If you still want to get an immersive experience in the Train Sim World game what you can do is, open the Oculus Link and expand the screen large enough that it will obstruct the rest of background and you will be only able to look at the screen. Or you can look for large curved screens in which make you feel like that you are immersed in the game. I know of many large screens like for example the Samsung Odyssey G9 49 inch.
     
  18. anorak

    anorak Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    31
    VR is a very Marmite subject amongst Simmers. :)

    Most either love it or hate it. The problem with having an accurate up-to date understanding of what is possible is the expense of keeping up with the very rapid evolution of headsets. Many people are discouraged by a limited experience with one or two headsets, running a small sample of applications. When you get into it a lot more (and spend stupid amounts of money.. :(), you start to appreciate how it will evolve into something that increases immersion to an unbelievable level.

    I started off with an Oculus DK2, which was like looking through a diver's goggles with a net curtain in front of it (the early "SDE" effect). Despite that, the new experience of sitting in an aircraft at twilight and looking down over the wing at photo-realistic scenery was enough to hook me. Now, about 5 years (and many £££ later), I use a Pimax 8kx and an Oculus Quest. They are at opposite extremes of cost, and yet they are both major improvements over the DK2. The Pimax has an extremely wide field of view, (about 170 degrees horizontal), so gives almost normal peripheral vision, rather than the much more common "divers helmet" restricted field of view. When used in flight sims, it hugely improves the immersion. The downside is that its very high resolution 4k twin panels need a very powerful PC to run it at acceptable fps levels. The Oculus Quest on the other hand, (already mentioned positively on this thread), can be bought for far less money, or even under £200 secondhand. It also has much greater definition and picture quality than my original headset, and has some excellent features, such as wireless connectivity to a normal PC running any software (including TSW), to give a pseudo VR experience.

    As previously mentioned on here, you can run TSW on your existing PC and connect to it wirelessly with the Quest and set its view as a large screen close-up, so that you move your head around to view the TSW image. The possibilites extend further, via wifi, I can sit downstairs in my lounge and run my Sims on my gaming PC upstairs, viewing the screen via the headset and controlling the sim by a USB extension cable to whatever controller you use (keyboard/mouse/raildriver etc..).
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. acro

    acro Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    50
    Back when TSW2 came out I attempted a very makeshift VR solution by using a payed software called VorpX that will allow a fair amount of games to output VR with proper depth by hooking into the DirectX API, as opposed to just being a 2D image on a large ingame screen. It's far from perfect, especially when it comes to control and stability, but in terms of showcasing the world in full 3D with headtracking it was fantastic. I ran through one of the Bakerloo Line timetables using my Xbox One controller and what Matt said about immersion is honestly true, if anything you are too blown away by being in the cab of a train to focus on the fact that you're holding a controller. It's also true that a gamepad is actually a rather decent way of controlling things without being able to physically see it, it's especially good if you don't have the space to be flinging your arms all over the place to flip switches and pull levers.

    In terms of the how it feels, just walking around on the platforms at Queens Park and turning my head and seeing these Tube trains in an accurate scale was amazing. I also had a quick look around Cologne Central Station and was genuinely blown away by it's grandeur. I did this prior to upgrading my GPU. I was on a GTX 1070 at the time, meaning I had to turn most of the graphics settings down as well as the resolution to hit a steady framerate, but it was still fantastic and honestly didn't really degrade the experience as much as I expected it to.

    I would love to see an official implementation at some point that would have better usability but I understand it is not even remotely a priority. Enabling VR output in UE4 is rather easy but actually optimising it and coming up with working menus and a usable control solution would be quite a bit harder and I can entirely see why the resources cannot be dedicated to doing so, especially when the current audience is for such a mode likely quite small.

    For those who do have VR headsets, I can't exactly suggest doing what I did unless you're willing to spend more money on extra software that can be a nuisance to configure, but it is honestly spectacular. I also hope the idea of an official VR mode isn't completely written off and instead is parked as something that could be tackled later down the track because it would genuinely enhance the experience for anyone who is in the market for such a thing.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,976
    Likes Received:
    5,407
    Reading this it does make it sound very tempting, I had dismissed the idea before. I have a Nvida 1060 so I imagine that would struggle quite a bit with a VR headset.

    I do think DTG probably have other priorities but it sounds like this is something which it would be good to see officially supported in the future.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    Can you share your vorpx profile acro
     
    • Like Like x 2
  22. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    Pressed enter too quick, forgpot the most important bit of the post...

    "please" :)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    I'd be interested in learning more about how this VR works. I use flight sim on a pad and racing games on a wheel and muscle memory comes quick. You can still use the mouse to look down and select things. I would love to see some of these routes as you described.
     
  24. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    Thanks for asking Matt!

    I used vorpex with TS202X and it was a very long way from being proper VR and haven't touched vorpex since. However if there has been any developments, then I'd be like Andrew Marr (all ears).
     
  25. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    Yes my own experiences with limited fiddling of VorpX on TSW have been "ok" but far from satisfactory - it sounded like arco has been able to spend some more time on it and perhaps get a bit more out of it so if that's the case just purely because i'm a VR enthusiast myself i'm keen to have a play :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    maybe a little vorpex-DTG colab Matt as a compromise to wet the whistle?
     
  27. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    If there was official DTG resource to work on it, it'd be to do it properly :) This is just me being a VR enthusiast and wanting to play only VR games now :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. acro

    acro Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    50
    Irritatingly enough, I've since lost it due to a lovely hard drive incident. At some point in the next couple of days I'll try and set it up again
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    Guys,

    I've used arco's profile on Vorpex on TSW2 - so far it's unplayable for me, but that could just be the way I've got everything set up.

    I've got screen percentage to 200% (you know why!) and everything maxed out, including editing files to give better visuals not available on the UI.

    Reducing screen percentage below 200 just makes things look very poor, also, head tracking is currently inverted. I'm sure I can fix that somehow. Frames are very low, however that could be down to my aforementioned beefed up settings.

    I'm using a Reverb R2 which isn't officially supported with a 3090 just for reference.

    Apart from that, I can see how this could perform. I wouldn't say it's 100% VR, but it's better than just a 2D screen closer to your face. I'd be interested to see how other people get on. I'll play about with it to see if I can get it to work properly.

    Kind regards
     
  30. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    Is anyone winning with the software yet and getting a good experience?
     
  31. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    I'm afraid not cheiflongshin. It's very unstable, I'll keeping tinkering when I get time...
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  32. acro

    acro Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    50
    My Oculus has been on the fritz recently (plus I've had some other issues going on) so I haven't really been able to have another stab at it unfortunately. One thing of annoyance I also found out is that having VorpX installed messes with TS2021. I believe it thinks of it like Track IR or something so it disables the ability to use mouse look in the cab and passenger views, this means I've unfortunately had to uninstall it for now.

    As it was also a while back, I'm starting to think I had rose tinted glasses towards the whole experience and that it was just borderline unplayable. Either way, if I manage to sort out my VR setup I'll have another go at it and let you all know my findings. :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  33. samsunix

    samsunix New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Having this kind of survey with people who already own's the game...
    Is same as asking group of people without teeth, if they would like to have braces (straight teeth).

    Instead, for example, developer should take a look derail valley's / vr games sales numbers generally and make decision based on facts, not gamers feelings.

    https://store[REMOVE ME].steampowered.com/search/?vrsupport=402%2C401&filter=topsellers
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  34. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    :DRight on. You've probably explained my argument in about 20 words
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. anorak

    anorak Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    31
    VR in sims is a Marmite subject. You're either all for it, or dead against.
    Many negative views are from people who've tried it, but were significantly disappointed compared to their expectations from all of the hype.
    This is a completely understandable point of view, since the early headsets suffered from poor resolution and colour, "screen door effect" and had low frame rates which induced nausea. Actually throwing up must be a huge shock after paying out such a significant sum of money for the experience !
    As with all electronic things though, development is increasing rapidly, though staying at the "cutting edge" of VR is very expensive, not just for the headset itself, but the monster PC needed to run tha damn thing. Top level VR now needs something like an RTX3080 or 3090 GPU to get the best out of it, and these currently cost £1,500 and upwards... :o
    The reward though, is amazing, so when prices reduce, VR will be much more commonplace than now, so IMHO all major Sims will eventually support it.
    Thinking it will die out is akin to Bill Gates alleged quote back in the 1960's "640k of memory ought to be enough for anybody"...
    I currently use a Pimax 8kx headset (and a full motion simulator platform) with my flight sims, and the immersion is total. The resolution is 4k per eye, and the field of view is 170 degrees horizontally, (full peripheral vision). My PC is equipped with an i9 9900k cpu and an RTX2080ti gpu, so I get reasonable framerates, though an RTX3080 or 3090 will improve things even more, (when they come down to a less ludicrous price than the value of my old car).
    In ten or twenty years time, any sim that is not VR capable will suffer considerable loss of sales becuase of it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2019
    Messages:
    1,055
    Likes Received:
    507
    rtx 3080ti hk money 12000 rtx 3090 hk money 18000
     
  37. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    I think with good optimisation they’re excellent. I get decent resolution on a 2080ti on assetto corsa and flight sim but I too would like throw a 30series at them one day if the card sizes will fit my Alienware r11
     
  38. Ost-Trieb

    Ost-Trieb Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    50
    I play GTA 5 with the R.E.A.L. VR Mod. And this is beautiful.
    I needed a few minutes with the Headset and the X-Box controller.
    And now its amazing to look around with the Headset and move with the Contoller.

    So maybe is it possible to activate VR with UE commands and play with X-Box controller?
     
  39. anorak

    anorak Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    31
    I was hooked on VR even after my first experience of it several years ago.
    It was an Oculus DK2, and it cost the same money as the mainstream headsets today but had very poor res and a screendoor effect that was like peering through a chainlink fence !
    Nevertheless, when I first tried it in xplane, it was amazing. Taking off from a remote airfield and then looking down under the wing on photo-realistic scenery lifted flight simulation immersion to a much higher level.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    113
    Flying a F-16 over Nevada with the Reverb2 is an experience I'd never thought would be possible in my living room. It's next level, unfortunately so are the prices.

    I think if SimRail do it, I think DTG has to.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  41. martinoc

    martinoc New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
    The most recent update on Flight Sim 2020 has made me come back to this thread. I am still surprised how much negativity there is towards VR here - as others have said the VR experience in FS2020 is now incredible. You have to try it to believe it.

    I would like to go back to some of the comments made on this thread and at least let you know my thoughts:

    I use my keyboard in FS2020 by looking through the nose gap in the headset to see the keys so I would imagine this to be even easier on bespoke sim controller as there are fewer keys. When the VR functionality on FS2020 launched last December is was awful and it has slowly improved - the most recent update has made a step change - it's now outstanding.

    I don't think being immersed in simulator is a bad thing unless you have a reason why this doesn't work for you. It is so much better when you can move your head to look around. I can't play a flight sim on a monitor anymore - its just dull and tedious (and much more difficult) after you have experienced VR.

    If there was another survey around this - I think VR would be much higher up the list due to the significant increase in sales of headsets since the launch of the Oculus Quest 2.

    If the software needs a complete rewrite I can see the issue that the developer would have - they are already in a niche market - I suppose they have to think about how long they want to sell and support the software for. VR is is a gimmick no more and is becoming the norm for sims.

    I use an addon called FlyInside for Flight Sim X (yes the 2006 version) for an excellent VR experience and until recently this was my go-to sim. I don't know if it is possible but if Dovetail worked with a 3rd party a similar add on may be possible. (I previously suggested that they could could run a kickstarter - I am sure though people would pay £25 for it - little risk for them if its dev costs are covered up front).

    If they don't do move with the growing trend I can see them being left behind soon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. martinoc

    martinoc New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
    I have had some luck with this its too fiddly - best result so far has been using virtual desktop and opentrack. Still not good enough to play yet. Not tried for a while so will give it another go.
     
  43. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    1,031
    I have a few VR headsets with the old Quest being the latest. I rarely use them as apart from the facebook issue being disabled the experience is limiting. Not by the headsets, I've some good fun in them it is not all the games you use with you being sat down. I have balance issues among others so it is dangerous for other people with me in a headset!

    Some games let you sit down but sometimes there is a price to pay or the software you really want doesn't have that function. People with bad co-ordination would like to use the headset with a gamepad as it is easier, I realise I'm talking about a minority of people here but it would be good to get back into it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    TrainSim-Matt would it warrant a survey again across this board but the social channels too? This thread keeps popping up :)
     
  45. Lombra

    Lombra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    269
    Can't believe people are presenting the immersion aspect of VR as a negative... seriously? What, you also dislike playing video games because you want to have your hands free for eating?

    Good to see that Matt is positive towards it, at least.

    My key thoughts:
    • Not denying that VR isn't flawless. Expensive, intense computational requirements and can be physically uncomfortable/discomforting/inconvenient.
    • The VR hardware is out there now, since a few years back. The software needs to catch up now.
    • Essentially all the big simulators support it. Don't see a reason for Train Sim World not to have it. (as far as game design goes, at least)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  46. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    1,031
    Don't disagree with anything you put but I think there are more pressing stuff at the moment. When it is viable for DTG to do it I am sure they will. They have done so with RailDriver and TrackIR. I know VR is on another level but I'm sure it will come eventually.
     
  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  48. bj00rn

    bj00rn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    I just read the first page of this thread and it almost broke my heart. I started supporting TSW (and TS)(and I've bought way too many DLCs I haven't played..) exactly because I was hoping it would help accelerate VR support because TSW is a PERFECT fit for VR. I'm playing MS Flight Simulator 2020 in VR almost daily, and it's the only way I play it, and I wish some of the time I spend was in VR in TSW instead. As this is the first time in forums I haven't heard about the survey before, but I'm sure going to look it up now.

    Edit: BTW, my VR headset is the HP Reverb G2
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  49. kevint1972

    kevint1972 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    24
    I think it's a mistake to judge whether to add VR purely on the views of existing players. Most people don't have headsets and therefore most of your players won't. You also have to factor in how many more people will be drawn to the game if it had VR support. A large and growing number of people do have them and as many have said, Train Sim World 2 is a perfect game for VR. Properly promoted to VR players, it would sell a lot of copies of the game. I would strongly recommend sceptics to find someone who has Flight Simulator and a decent rig to play it on and find out how good it is. In the 5 years since I first had VR demonstrated to me, things have improved greatly.
     
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    2,380

    Same here. I’ve Over 500 hours in tsw2 but with Assetto corsa, automobolista 2 and flight sim all in VR I’m finding myself spending less on tsw as l love the immersion
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page