Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by redrev1917, Jul 5, 2022.
Queens guard is fake bear (plastic)
Honestly, I wouldn't be that upset if TSW3 was essentially a fresh start if, and only if, the Preservation Crew continued to support TSW2 to fix bugs, improve signalling, and bring the feature set of older routes to the 2022 standard. Then TSW2 can be 'finished' and remain on sale, as happens with most other series.
I think it is going to be increasingly unfeasible to keep porting the older routes through engine updates, to new versions of the game, and to add new features to older routes without breaking them. And let's be honest, there's a good deal of stuff holding TSW2 back--the DLC limit on PS5, Sony's trophy limits, 8th gen console memory limitations, janky signalling logic on older routes ("red signals only go green after the lock doors objective is complete"), DLC add-ons being tied to particular routes, and feature sets and trains being inconsistent because routes are self-contained, to name a few.
Perhaps making TSW3 a new and separate product, exclusive to PC/9th gen consoles, with a 'home' route that all trains (including loco DLC) are tied to, better lighting systems, more detail on locos (as seen in Rivet's Class 484), a better menu UI, and Scenario Planner and Livery Designer 2.0, is not such a bad idea.
I disagree. For me now the thought of coming back to TSW2020 is unthinkable, and if it's going to be the same for TSW2 in two year's time I might have as well wasted all the money I spent on TSW, and will deter me heavily from buying content for the new game, as it would have a much lower "service life" it that makes sense. It's the same reason why it's crucial to me that rivet went back and fixed Arosa after the bugs caused by 4.26
They either keep coming back to it and add new features (which doesn't make a lot of sense if they game if "finished" - so no longer supported) or they keep updating the same game like they did/are doing with Train Sim, which is, in my opinion, the better option
This argument doesn’t really make any sense. You haven’t “wasted” your money, as the routes would still be playable and, to a certain extent, supported under my idea. That’s like saying you wasted your money on Euro Truck Sim because American Truck Sim was an entirely new game that didn’t allow you to bring over your old DLC.
Compared to TSC, where routes are very much released and then dropped, having everything brought up to the ‘final’ polished level of TSW2’s most recent releases is substantially better. Indeed, even that exceeds the original scope of the Pres Crew, as iirc the goal was to bring routes into TSW2 and then leave them in their original state (as they had been in TSW2020), not to backport new features/tech into them. But if you think the “release it and forget it” system of TSC is better than having a “release it, upgrade it, and leave it in a state where it is, permanently playable, with a majority of bugs and issues fixed” is better, then… uh, go ahead, I guess?
I think the very example you stated—bugs introduced to Arosalinie after the upgrade from 4.23 to 4.26—actually reinforces my point that it doesn’t make sense to keep dragging old routes through engine updates that could substantially break them. Isn’t it better to have a preserved, playable TSW2 that doesn’t require you to wait for a year (or more) for the Pres Crew or a third-party developer to get around to bug-fixing because “oops! The UE update accidentally made the route unplayable”?
We’ve seen how long it takes Pres Crew to get releases and bug fixes out. Heck, even for them to get a QA slot. (Which, based on past performance, may have been a waste of time anyway.) Do you want to experience the same thing again, and even worse moving forward as the back-catalog ever grows?
For this you are right. The money wouldn't be wasted, as I still played the route in the past, I just didn't get as much value as initially expected.
Yes, the routes would technically be "playable" just like NEC - NY is now, but I don't think people are too happy to having to go back to TSW2020 now, it's just a huge downgrade from TSW2. Yes, they would be "playable"... but if TSW is going to evolve at the same pace it did a few years ago it's going to feel like a downgrade.
This is not a good business practice, no one is saying otherwise (I hope) but there is a difference between back porting new features and just doing basic maintenance to make sure new routes don't get broken by new updates. Things like the Arosa fix was necessary, adding the level crossing to HRR wasn't, and while those things are "nice to have" they don't hugely impact the game, also by continuing to support older routes you keep the window open for further updates, let's say a future EBuLa implementation. If TSW2 is a thing of the past, no route will get it, even if it's a core change that requires very little DLC change (like the skybox), also you close the window to using more upgraded train, for example, if RH was a different game we would have been stuck with the much worse RSN BR143. You can't tell me to go back to using the RSN BR143 after having used the BRD BR143, I'm just not going to do it, no matter how much I love RSN.
No, I very much don't. But, I knew what I was buying when I bought it, and making it better is not as important as fixing bugs. The RSN update added railroad crossing, but you still can't use the DRA BR185.5, the BR155 still has broken PZB on Cab 2, not wanting new "shiny" but ultimately not fundamental changes for them to just focus on bug fixes is not supporting a "release and forget system".
No, that's an example that supports the fact that Adam's team is needed if this games wants to go forward. And yes, I am prepared to lose a few DLC along the way, if it so happens they were built in a way that doesn't support the new engine (like the TSW2020 NEC NY) but purposefully abandoning them seems silly to me. Especially when I wouldn't ever trust DTG to leave them in a good enough state to not need that further fix.
If the old version is worse enough than the new one it becomes unplayable by default to me, again I wouldn't be able to go back to use the RSN BR143 after using the DRA one, the same way I can't go back to using the TSW2020 ACS-64 in NEC NY after trying the still mediocre NEC Boston one.
If this is the price to pay to have old DLC being brought forward, with added features (adhesion physics was added to all TSW2020 DLC) then so be it. I hope they do a better job next time, but it's better than the alternative.
Addendum: I also almost forgot to add, you lose a lot of option for loco DLC and scenario designer ideas, do you think Maik is going to be happy to release his BR420 DLC for a game that is no longer supported? What if that causes bugs that need fixing from DTG?
Also let's say in the future a route with a Class 700 is released. If TSW2 is a thing of the past, there would be no hope of adding it to BML.
Thanks for taking the time for making such an inane post, if the thread does not 'excite' you in any way why do you feel the need to comment on it. Does it make you feel superior?
Couldn't agree more, especially the Station Lighting, it is embarrassing. We have 24 hour timetable's but you can't effectively use them as you cannot see nowt.
Over the years I have known plenty of forums as a player, user and moderator and Admin I even ran a forum with a team of moderators and had a right laugh doing so and comparing to this one with some of the more 'awkward' stuff it does OK imo. I used to run a 'clan' forum and boy those get spicy granted they were a few years ago now but even so.
For me there is a difference between a heated debate and someone just being nasty. If someone says a train is 'plastic trash' no-one gets hurt, just put your opinion why you think they are not. Forums are just for opinions and so long as no-one is being nasty with intent I do not see it as a problem.
I love the Steam era in it's infancy (1820's), not all do, and I think the BR era was great also. Yes there were problems but I liked and loved the variety. People have poured scorn on that era it doesn't matter, all you can do is put your opinion forward.
I used to travel on the HST in the 70's-early 2000's and had no problem with the seats. I had no trouble falling asleep for example and I travelled all over GB, had a right ball sometimes. I have seen a few reviews of the 800's though on youtube saying about the poor seats and the over use of plastic inside and the 'cracking' which had to be addressed which comes down to cost I think. To me seating should be given a much higher priority though as surely a happy customer would be better than a miserable one?
Are you sure on that? As of December 2021 they were still wearing real Bear skin, certainly the Grenadier and Coldstream Guards were. And the skins were ordered from black bears which have to be culled in Canada. Unless something has recently changed I remember seeing a report where they said the guards didn't like the artificial hair as it reacted more, static electricity and things like that I presume.
It was a response to a question asked by another user. Such is the purpose of fora.
Um, the same could be asked about a pointless post insulting both a previous post and the poster for no reason. Except Callum B. simply told the truth. Aside from the initial post screencapping JD's camera slip, and JD's response to same, everything else is smoke without fire. Some are aware of that and just having fun "what if"-ing, while others seem to have lost the plot.
Unreal 5 ,,, ooh I hope it's unreal 5, yes we need unreal 5, the game will be so much better on unreal 5.
This is the peace pipe I'd like extinguished with a harsh dose of being your 3090 back to 2022. It will still likely be a bag of nails, run awful and then everyone will whine it didn't look like that station demo.
It should be at this time "get real 5" , dreamers .
I'd read it somewhere, but then I just looked it up (which I should have done previously) and nope...
Parlimentary debate results - 2022
I'm nearly 50 and grew up with R stock District Line trains and Class 302s. I love the old traction. However, older rail fans will prefer Q-stock and Steam and think that the 1950s & 60s BR Multiple Units are "plastic crap". Younger fans grew up with D stock and 357s. There's no wrong or right, love what you love.
However, for DTG to keep growing the TS brands, they will need to embrace newer trains in order to bring new enthusiasts on board, as most people love the trains they grew up with.
Ultimately its a personal thing. I grew up with BR Blue and then the sectors. Privatisation wiped out steadily everything that I was a fan of although tbh BR tried to do that with loco hauled passenger trains although never ordered enough units. I am sure OldVern of this parish can relate as especially on the Western region and up here around Liverpool and Manchester we continued seeing loco and stock on trains supposedly meant for total DMU monopoly.
Sprinters maybe old but do nothing for me on the excitement front. They invoke some memories of the 80s in their original liveries and some days out on them but Ultimately for me once you have experienced a loud loco at high speed on a line like the Highland Mainline or Dawlish sea wall then riding a sprinter to somewhere just doesn't cut it. Plastic describes the experience of the beholder not just the decor of the trains.
I am similar over 37s in some of the moder commercial liveries and mods just isn't the same even if they sound good. Don't take offence people if the term plastic is used its simply down to the fact that little or no enjoyment is found.
Yes, plastic should be read in the same context as real ale lovers (like myself) will describe pasteurised keg beer as “fizz”. Yes it’s beer and it will get you p****d but the journey is nowhere near as pleasant or tasty.
Now that the Island Line has been released, I feel we need some sort of reveal very soon (ie within the next week or so). Whether it be TSW3 or the identity of one of those 2 routes in development...new content/news seems rather thin at the moment.
Who is with me on this ?
I think it’s also high time we had some detailed news on the promised improvements and fixes to Spirit Of Steam, which appears to have dropped off the radar even quicker than most previous DLC.
No thanks. We’ve had enough Southern third rail modern routes. I certainly don’t want to see the Electrostar recycled yet again…
Time for something different. A route set in the Midlands, The North or Wales. Anything but modern Southern third rail…
I would like to remind everyone that even if TSW3 will release, there is a huge chance it will be like TSW2's release. More features than the previous one, everything old in pres crew, and, well, you know how buggy TSW2 can be and was on day one.
I hope that "TSW 3" isn't full of additional features which don't add to the overall game. An updated livery editor is a must given the Creators Club has taken off. I'd also like to see an improved map but don't hold much hope of seeing one. I just want them to build on what we get in TSW 2, don't add unnecessary things for the sake of it and just keep improving the core game.
More important to me would be a proper scenario editor with a consist maker and ability to insert into a live timetable rather than everything being empty
Agreed. I forgot about that as I never use it.
Me neither, and it's LESS useful than the livery editor, hence mentioning it.
Spent many hours in TSC creating scenarios but the one in TSW is so limited I tried once, never again until it has way more functionality
No. The 313 if we're unlucky! If it's a layer from the loco DLC I bought for extra cost, OK. Giving it basically for free would mean that I paid €15 just for the ECW timetable.
My thoughts on TSW3. I do not think that this year there will be TSW3 on the updated UE5 engine.
My expectation is a new summer issue of TSW, which will most likely appear no earlier than September. Which will include 3 routes, one old British improved (possibly Bakerloo with a new timetable or Liverpool - Crewe) and two new routes, American and German.
TSW3 may be announced, but it won't be released until May 2023, as was the case with "Spirit of Steam".
I would be very surprised if this happens this summer. Especially if TSW3 includes the new Scenario Editor 2.0 and Livery Editor 2.0, which were omitted from the roadmap. And if it does, it will most likely be on the old engine.
Actually I am beginning to wonder if this whole TSW3 "leak" was to redirect attention from some of the more pressing issues.
Without labouring the point from other threads, Spirit Of Steam seems to have rapidly joined the catalogue of "fired and forgotten" routes, despite the assurances that improvements were going on, not to mention the numerous bugs and gameplay issues pointed out by the customers. Some of which - like poorly formed consists requiring manual release of the brakes on fitted wagons and the whole train then rendered unfitted - could be fixed by a few minutes in their editor.
What new additional features would you classify as unnecessary? Just wondering.
Which means, you think that leak wasn't an accident but surved the prupose to divert discussion to something else? I mean, nobody said, we're not allowed to discuss outstanding SOS bugs. There are still some active threads where this is done right now.
Maybe these fixes take their time? These fixes have to be tested. I'm sure it's not "forgotten". Not at all, as SOS has been one of the most played DLCs so far. These fixes including the manual fireman are being worked on. If it takes time, it takes time. It's better to wait longer than having a fast fix, that does the opposite in the end
Remains to be seen. I am a natural sceptic where DTG assurances are concerned and nothing will change that. At the least they could sort out the misformed consists which I highly doubt would take more than an hour or two to run through the affected scenarios and correct them.
And given the high profile all the "ongoing" improvements were given in the pre-release hype, a little information about where they are wouldn't hurt.
Their Q&S post just before the roadmap earlier this month would tell anyone looking that issues never get forgotten about, same for the "what can Rivet do to help the 150" post...
Yeah, they really don't help themselves on these ones. That could easily have been a day one fix...
"Anything involving an electrostar" would be some people's answer... In the end there are a great many things which COULD be added into the game which would greatly enhance people's experience including some form of editor, scenario editor, consist editor, random weather, random time of year and temperature, a passenger system that doesn't involve people stuck in the stairs or only boarding one carriage... that sort of thing
I'm not sure as I don't know what they have in mind, but for the sake of argument, here are some additional features which I feel, shouldn't be in the game.
Mastery was a waste of time.
Didn't work for many people and not available on every route but this may have changed, I don't check.
Scenario Creator in it's current form is pointless.
Nothing more than a glorified quick drive.
Collectables (see mastery).
Makes it feel like a kids game more than a "Simulator".
The 2d map. Since day one, it's been all but useless as it provides us with so little information. No station names, junction names, showing us which are the up and down lines, head code of passing trains etc..
All these add nothing to the driving experience and that's what the game is about. I'd rather they spent time on more pressing things.
Well... yes and no. There ARE some very good scenarios in the CC. With many AI, nice service. So the SD 1.0 was in my opinion a great improvement to no scenario designer at all. But yes, it needs more love to become better and more flexible with individual pathing, signal changing and placing static stock on yards.
I don't care either for the collectables. But as seen in some discussions here, there are many people who really like them [who cannot love the IOW dino?]. But the good thing is: One can just ignore them and doesn't have any disatvantage at all.
Agreed. A map with hardly any information isn't useful at all. I remember even Sam ranting about it in some streams
i don't care for collectables, doing platform / track maintenance / litter picking work, or the whole damn trophies and points thing, i bought this game to pretend i'm a train driver, not to play a sort of pokemon go game around railway lines.
And yes, whilst i can ignore most of it, unless i turn the HUD completely off i can't stop the annoying popup's blocking half the view ahead when i'm driving, congratulating me for having driven so many hundred km's that match the loco's BR number and other crap like that.
I don't particularly care for the collectables although I do quite like to have a wander around the virtual world and I quite like some of the tasks, like placing maps etc. I think the cameras on IOW are a nice touch and show some thinking out of the box.
However, just because I am not particularly into the less driving orientated side of things a lot of people are and it probably appeals to a lot of users who aren't necessary ardent train enthusiasts.
However I just ignore the parts of the sim I am not interested in, they certainly don't bother me.
It beggars belief that there's been no update or talk of an updated map since TSW came out. That should be up there on the list of must have's imo.
I do play actual games, mainly Nintendo stuff, and from a game design standpoint the collectables do nothing to appeal to traditional gamers in my opinion. There's nothing actually going on that warrants collecting them, there's some bragging right achievements, but that's it. Good collectables give gameplay reasons to actually want to go out of your way and get them.
For example the Metroid series has optional collectables called Energy Tanks & Missile Tanks. When you collect each of these they increase how much Energy (aka health in laymen's terms) you have and how many missiles you can carry. These make tackling tough enemies and bosses much easier, and thus while they are technically optional you have incentive to grab them outside of just ticking up a number. Not to mention there's a real sense of progression with how much more powerful you get with each collectable. It is incredibly satisfy to go from 100 Energy and 10 missiles to having well over 1000 Energy and having over 250 stinking missiles.
It's having that progression that really matters, the fact that DTG think it's the mere act of collecting that does it is very off base. Euro & American Truck both get this, and thus this is why those have such great outreach beyond the sim crowd, even though they don't have a single damn collectable in sight.
I was being sarcastic.
I think Marias Pass with a GE Tier 4 ET44C4 and an EMD GP38-2 in BNSF would make a nice debut route for TSW3 and with the happy times I am having on TSW2. I welcome it with open arms.
I'd say that's not a bad bet for the unannounced US route. BNSF has always been highly requested and Marias Pass is a fan-favorite.
I still think it'll be a BNSF route in SoCal, like Mojave sub or something like that.
Well on Xbox and if you have game pass, when you collect all the collectables, you earn an achievement. If you get an achievement in any game on gamepass (including tsw2), you get microsoft rewards points which can be used to buy items such as gift cards and enter sweepstakes to potentially win items like laptops and consoles so technically there is an incentive to an extent on xbox to collect collectables and earn achievements
From tonights scenario stream. For them another unfortunate stream slip up when for a split second TSW3 desktop icons can be seen just above JD's head. Just more evidence of an imminent TSW3 announcment.
That's a slam dunk, we'd best get BeastyBill88 his hat ordered. I hope he's hungry
At this point they are not even trying to hide it. No point really at this point
I wouldn't even be surprised if there was a tsw3 article leaked before the game was officially announced. Also judging by the Unreal engine logos, It doesn't appear that the game engine will change but I could be wrong although I don't see why tsw needs a new game engine anyways.
I suspect tsw3 will just be a free core update like what happened with tsw to tsw2020 and there will be new routes bundled together with an existing route for those that may want to get the summer bundle so to speak.
Did we say he could have Mayo in the end?
In all seriousness though, open up DTG, it’s time to talk.
“taking some quiet time to work on bug fixes” eh?
They could just be shifting their attention to tsw3 at the moment hence why we haven't seen the rest of the preserved crew updates yet
Good spot on the stream.
My hope would be this is why we haven't yet seen even minor fixes for SoS. Maybe they are polishing it to be one of the front or at least second row routes fully upgraded for TSW3,
Not true. Fact: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-sim-world-2-update-9th-june-2022.55559/
That's a great catch it was only on the screen for half a second.
TSW3? pffft, old hat, i've had TSW4 for like aaaages... here's the proof:
In 2019 Birmingham University were involved in developing a hydrogen train. I think we have two now that are up and running. I think it is called the class 799? Could be wrong but wouldn't it be great if DTG could actually do something like this?
Hahaha, good spot. I'm imagining how JD is hated by some at DTG No doubt they will cover their arses and say they meant to leak it.
If they do this UE5 I wonder if they will just release it as an upgrade to TSW2 or will we get a brand game in TSW3? If so will the game be new from scratch or will they import things over from TSW2 which will mean we get the same bugs no?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at one of their meetings.
It seems rather likely now those 2 routes in development will be part of TSW3 along with all the features which have been talked about up until now (Scenario Planner 2.0, Content/DLC Manager, Bakerloo timetable update, SoS manual fireman, savegame improvments and other things the preservation crew have been working on).
I just hope we don't have the debacle of what we went through when they moved to TSW2 with the mixed messaging and backtracking. Hopefully all the TSW2 DLC makes the cut to TSW3 and not left to rot like how NEC NY was
aww i'm jealous TSW3-Editor lol
Can't blame JD for that one....that was Michael's desktop
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