Tsw3 - The Cat Is Out Of The Bag & The Unofficial Tsw3 Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by redrev1917, Jul 5, 2022.

  1. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    We'll see. I remember getting excited by a preview shot of SKA with Dostos in the background before the release of TSW2.
    Given that, despite its issues it has quite evolved since then...

    What makes me looking forward to it:
    - first TSW under Matts control as EP
    - Matts statement in last months roadmap stream the beta testers would 'like what they seen'. So far Matts enthusiasm before a new release hardly led to a disappointment afterwards.
    - Maik Goltz being a bit quiet in the forums and no real progress shown on TSGs' planned releases. I guess he's been busy with some contract work.

    Regarding new features I'm expecting a bit more on the gameplay than on the sim side. I wouldn't be surprised if issues like lighting would stay untouched but instead the AP system would get an overhaul. Given Sams request some weeks ago I suspect the menu design to change as well.

    But we'll see on Tuesday I guess. I'm looking forward to it anyway - since FM8 is nowhere near on the horizon hopefully TSWs next iteration doesn't turn out too buggy at release ;)
     
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  2. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    I hope this was a bit of a hyperbole, because otherwise it's like saying circuits in a racing sim, airports in a flight sim, maps in a competitive RTS or levels in a Hitman game don't matter. One can always fix bugs and improve performance, but if you have rubbish locations with no authenticity, diversity or detail, no matter how much you tweak lighting scripts or audio files, your rail sim is as good as a leaking bucket.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  3. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Glad I’m not the only one to notice. It’s the same thing that happened around the time of DCZ when we got the 612. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that TSG is working on something for DTG right now.
     
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  4. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Whats got me is a 5pm UK announcement stream on Tuesday - whats all that about really?
     
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  5. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Will you also remove that image in your signature at 5pm UK time or maybe just do us all a favour and remove it now ?
     
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  6. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I love the fact that this community (me included) is such a big fan of him, I noticed that as well. Fingers crossed for some new german rolling stock (that can hopefully be used on more than route) if he's involved in it.
     
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  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’ve got to agree, the signature is a bit distracting and annoying due to the size of it. Especially when it appears multiple times in a thread.
     
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  8. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Not really the version of UE4 they installed does support ray-tracing and othe lighting features they have not been using.

    And it is possible its been a year of learning the tools and techniques in order to implement them into the game.
     
  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't be surprised if this continues to be the case
     
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  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    There's a depressing thought.
    Actually, you may be right. I'm not seriously expecting the extinction of electrostars, red boxes on rails or gevos. But I think we can expect some improvements to the lighting, sound and core components. Otherwise, what would be the point of a grand opening with rockets, bells and flashing lights, which is apparently what Tuesday is all about.
     
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  11. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    No, its actually the other way around.
    Fist you need a good stable core -> non-terrible lighting, acceptable performance, working sound.
    Then you can build good routes for your core.

    We already know how the "DTG can always fix core issue #1023" works out. It does not get fixed and real change only comes with new versions of the game/engine.
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    A decent set of fixes to lighting and better/more sound plus reliable save game (preferably more than one slot) and the end of signalling redouts/stuck AI would actually breath new life into what we already have. There are many routes, particularly London to Brighton and Dresden to Riesa which I’ve barely touched due to the core issues. And when you find yourself driving along Tharandter ramp on what is supposed to be a crystal bright winter mid day, but it looks like some sort of ghastly twilight with everything shrouded in dark shadow, puts you off driving what can be done without getting checked by the other bugs.
     
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  13. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Well that's an issue with DtG's fixing work, not a general demonstration that "routes don't matter, only performance, lighting and audio does". I have no preference about which one is done first - both are needed - but to pretend routes in a rail sim don't matter is not serious. There would be no DLCs for TSW and no Suggestions forum packed with route proposals if that was the case.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the announcement, the odds are in favour that DTG will still manage to make a mess of it somehow!
     
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  15. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not building my hopes up for anything special.

    Whatever will be, will be....(oooh long time since I chanted that at the footy, being an Evertonian)
     
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  16. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Active Member

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    I guess that's where the problem lies. Such is the level of modern day expectation, "just fine" seems to be the new standard of acceptability - and you can't really say it isn't because, well, here we all are, many purchases into a train simulator that continues to fall short of it's true potential...yet even though it's not (and may never be) a great game, we all play it - and largely enjoy it regardless of that fact.

    Any game that even slightly rises above this endless sea of mediocrity is always going to look like a great game but generally speaking it isn't...it's just a game that's better than what you've come to expect - and to further enhance this point take a look down the list of games in the Microsoft store and ask yourself how many of those multi 5 star rated games would you genuinely consider being worthy of such a high accolade.

    I'm not saying every single game release over the past 9 years is a tragedy because that would be unfair; all I'm saying is that despite all the hype and expectation, gen 8 gaming is a significant downgrade to what came came before it in every single aspect bar the visuals. Sadly though, looks aren't everything (that's why, as simulators go, TSW is arguably inferior to TSC) and any self-respecting gamer should know that by now. After all, if you had to make an either/or decision would you prefer TSW3 to have exceptional physics or exceptional visuals?

    RDR is an exceptional game...RDR2 is just fine.
    Eyes wide open, young man.....eyes wide open :cool:
     
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  17. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    What a load of codswallop.
     
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  18. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I don't think - even as hypothetical - it's not needed to decide between A or B. I think the exceptional advantage of TSW built on UE4 is that it can have both. Looking at the BR 101 or the G6, they are exceptional in both physics as well as visuals. If you mean by visuals a new lighting system, yes! An overhaul is needed, totally. But who know, maybe we'll have more information on that next week. I think the lighting problem is well known at DTG now. So let's see what the future brings.
     
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  19. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Well, frankly, I'm not sure there has ever been a train simulator that has risen above "just fine".
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    My eyes are wide open. Yours seems to be closed. There were excellent games on last gen and yet your acting like performance was terrible or doesn't live up to whatever your personal standard is.

    I don't know what fantasy you have been living under. Hardware doesn't make mediocre games. It's the devs themselves. That's where the real problem lies. With some blaming older hardware for not getting what they expected when in reality it's the devs themselves
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  21. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    ever wondered why we're stuck with roughly 40 mile routes?

    can't be something to do with the limited memory on gen 8 hardware could it??

    people keep going on about how tsw is developed on the pc, then lots of things turned off to make it work on gen 8... that works with graphics, shaders, layers, timetables and so on... but it's not that easy to cut a ~100 mile route in half just for the gen 8 stuff is it,
     
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  22. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Memory has nothing to do with shorter routes.
     
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  23. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    i'll be surprised if there was new Canadian route. but till then (we'll see what happens)
     
  24. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Route length has no impact on performance, the game will unload everything unrelated to the current scene - at least that's what we've been told.

    Track 3 in SMH wasn't scrapped because of gen8, but as always they couldn't do it in time/not enough resources because they thought they could rely on auto gen more.

    Route length is determined by the amount of resource needed.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's not a gen 8 limitation as dtg have said many times. I assume you would know that. If you did then your just being arrogant
     
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  26. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - baiting and trolling aren't welcome here, pack it in]
     
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  27. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I'll gladly take every opportunity to talk about how bad SMH is
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's like adding extra bedrooms to a house built on a cracked, sagging foundation.
     
  29. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the SD70 and especially the train length + physics are excellent to my mind, but I see your point regarding SMH - especially the omission of track 3.
     
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  30. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    This would only have been a valid analogy if I had said "developers need to keep adding content but keep mechanics broken". Enough with these cringy attempts of responding to my posts with childish bad-faith garbage.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  31. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the stream is at 5pm. That’s the announcement, probably incorporated in the roadmap. Although there isn’t a Railfan TV schedule this week (despite the title of the post), I suspect that it will be at 8pm BST as usual.
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - don't feed the troll]
     
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  33. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would prefer the reveal on the stream itself, it would give it much more a sense of occasion. Putting it on the web site before will kind of spoil the surprise.
     
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  34. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    What they should do is release the article on Monday so we know what questions we want to ask prior to the stream.

    And then set up a question thread around said article.

    I'm hoping the train image on the 8th means that they are doing this.
     
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  35. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    My comment wasn't 100% serious, but yeah... SMH is one of the most disappointing routes I own, the SD70 and physics are good, but the safety system doesn't work, the scenery leaves a lot to be desired (especially at night, last time I checked the terrain and vegetation were like glow in the dark), and the omission of track 3 of course...

    It's not awful per se, but it just seems the epitome of the "that'll do" mentality... it could have been so much better but it almost seems like they couldn't be bothered to neither fix it or improve it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  36. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    It would be pretty neat if they went straight into a trailer, which then goes into a preview stream where DTG go into proper detail of what's new & improved. The articles then come out the following day after the stream.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Two wilder speculative thoughts…

    1. They are ditching UE and have spent the last 18 months working with a replacement graphics engine that is more suited to the needs of a train simulation.

    2. TSW3 will come with a utility to convert and port across all our TSC routes and content, effectively consolidating their train sim franchise into one up to date modern basket.

    But again, probably not.
     
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  38. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I know you can’t post about TSW without mentioning TSC but this is going a bit far :D Although I did once suggest TSW2 would come with spaceships and unicorns as a joke and we did get a UFO and a Kraken, so mad things do happen.
     
  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What they should do (my version) is have the release / announcement stream on TUESDAY, set up a question post synchronous with the stream then have a Q&A session either on the Thursday or the subsequent Tuesday
    Not much point having a Q&A session before we know what they've done already, essentially you're asking questions based on TSW2 as a comparrison
     
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  40. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    That sounds good as well.
    But aren't all the questions generally going to be whats different between this version and TSW2 anyways?

    Asking about any new features is pretty much just asking that very question.

    But I would think if an article was on Monday that the said article would tell us more details so that we could elaborate on those.

    Also gives them time for questions from the forums they can do the usual cherry pick from
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not really. If they came on Tuesday with a dev version of TSW3 and could show a V2 of scenario planner with new features and so on (as in they can actually show a bit of it) then people would ask about those things as well as whether existing stuff transfers. Right now we don't know if there IS a v2 to ask about (hence asking blind)

    Then zero point having an announcement on Tuesday as Monday would be the announcement?
     
  42. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Would be great. I suspect more UE, more bugs, more fixes that then create more bugs. Still no save and still no editor.
     
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  43. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Active Member

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    I get the feeling the main reason for TSW3 is primarily to steady the ship and from a marketing perspective to try and distance the game from the issues we've seen with TSW2, particularly since Rush Hour was released.

    I think we'll see some improvements but I don't think it will be as revolutionary as some are hoping. For this reason I think the way it will be released will be much closer to TSW2020 than TSW2, e.g. free core update and a paid version with 3 new routes (with maybe SoS included as a delux edition). I also think a lot of the bug fixes they've been working on will be realised at the same time to help build the hype.

    I'm trying to temper my expectations but feel these are the likely included features:
    - Sparkes from electric power (almost certain)
    - Dynamic Weather (likley)
    - Thunder and lightning (possible)
    - Better management of layering and duplicate loco versions (hopeful).
    - Loco DLC no longer fixed to home route (possible)
    - Test track for locos (possible)
    - New UI (likey)
    - New scoring / rewards / trophy system (possible)

    Bug fixes / improvements released at the same time will likely be:
    - PS5 DLC Fix / Content Manager for consoles (very likey)
    - RH passengers for BML (likely)
    - New Bakerloo Timetable (liklely)
    - SH Track 3 (I can dream)
    - Save Game fix (Hopeful)

    It's very unlikely GEN 8 will be fully dropped. My guess is it either be partially supported, e.g. less core functionality such as no sparks etc (likey) or it will stay on TSW2 and new DLC will be released for this as well (less likely).

    Things that are very unlikely to be inluded

    - Multiplayer
    - Massive lighting fix for old DLC
    - VR
    - UE5
    - Huge routes
    - Route extensions / mergers

    I also think we'll get also get a commitment to future improvements (lightning, dispacher, route length, train features etc.) but the big question is how much faith will we be able to but it this given the long list of broken promises we've had it the past.

    Personally I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (again!) and I'm feeling positive about the futitre of TSW. I think they've seen the competition on the horizon and know that now is the time to step up their game. The DLC limit had meant I've been playing the game less and I've not bought much of the recent DLC so I'm really looking forward to getting back in the cab.
     
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  44. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately what is needed is something that has the flexibility of the TSC series in the editors etc and the better graphics and walking of TSW with a timetable mode. I am hoping they have plucked the best ideas from previous products and can then move forward armed with knowledge from the past.

    I have always said if you take the best parts of other sims including older ones you would end up with a great experience. TSW has spent too long deep in noise (rightly I must add) about fixes or features that have either never emerged or have in a watered down fashion.

    The slate needs to be clean even if that means leaving some DLC behind like with NEC route
     
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  45. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    You forgot the "still terrible lighting and performance" part :D
     
  46. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20220807-180842_Twitter.jpg
    Good news! Seems like the DTG staff was able to travel to get reference material for their next DLC.

    Given the fact they talked about air travel, and their past experience with CalTrain, I'd assume it is a trip to the US, which should be their first opportunity to get reference material since Covid started.

    Let's see if this actually means a better DLC, hopefully they brought some microphones with them together with the cameras.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  47. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it’s something to do with Steam…
     
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Or it could be Austria, maybe something around Innsbruck which by all accounts is quite a hellfire approach and landing.
     
  49. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The two next DLC are American and German aren't they? And didn't Matt say some time ago that neither of them are steam?
     
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  50. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That is correct
     
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