PC Tsw3 - Your Awesome Lighting Pictures

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Sep 3, 2022.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I was figuring we cannot let the lighting on this game go unnoticed now, with that in mind, how about sharing your favourite pics really showing off the lighting on this game.

    Here's two from me to kick us off....
    Screenshot (209).png Screenshot (210).png

    I would add as well, which I think the bottom pic shows, in game you can see the shadow of the windmill moving across the floor as it spins.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  2. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Nice:cool:
     
  3. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    *adds to watch thread list*
     
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  4. DTG Benjamin

    DTG Benjamin Staff Member

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    WOW! These are stunning, and this is a great idea for a thread! We would love to feature these shots on our social channels. We'd be happy to tag you in the posts if you'd be happy to send me your @'s on Twitter/Instagram :D
     
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  5. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Train Sim World 3®   03_09_2022 11_16_30.png

    Train Sim World 3®   03_09_2022 01_04_13.png
     

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  6. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Active Member

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    Something I've noticed is that the colour of the lighting seems to be much more noticeable than in TSW2 - I need to go back to TSW2 and check this, since it might just be confirmation bias, but running an early morning service on SEHS last night and the pink sunrise/light clouds gave a pink tinge to everything, by the end of the run the sky was brighter and the light was more yellow/orange. Really effective.
     
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  7. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Active Member

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    Even "normal" daytime conditions, which are generally a lot less eye-catching, look lovely now.

    20220903114257_1.jpg
     
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  8. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I was looking at a couple of these thinking I might have to eat a slice of humble pie, but perhaps for now it’ll just be a fork full. Although it does look a fair bit better than TSW2 something is still fundamentally wrong with it.

    The first images of the American route…it’s undeniable that it looks ok but when you look a bit closer the same old problems are apparent. All of the scrub bushes on the left are lit incorrectly. Although they are casting shadows because the sun is behind them, the side facing away from the sun is also bright. That is obviously wrong, all of that should be dark. The same applies to the second image. The field in the far distance full of scrub is bright and it shouldn’t be that way.

    The second set of images with the ICE. The sun has to be below the horizon behind the train because obviously a setting sun doesn’t illuminate the sky in a 360 degree arc, so we should not be seeing reflections of sunlight in the carriage windows facing away from the sun. In fact, we shouldn’t be seeing reflections of light at all, because there is no light source to create them. If someone says ‘ah well, the sun is behind the camera’, then the power unit is incorrectly lit, the sky in the distance is completely wrong and the railhead is illuminated by sunlight. Also unrealistic.

    The image above of the 365…given the position of the sun the train itself is casting a realistic looking shadow yet absolutely nothing else is that image is doing the same. Additionally the side of the train facing the player should be much darker, lit only by ambient light, because the light source (the sun) is above and behind the unit. As it stands it is unrealistically bright, again like it is being illuminated by some invisible light source.

    To be fair it does seem to look better than some of the promo shots suggested, and better than TSW2, but there is clearly still a lot of work to do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  9. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    I have been so busy playing the Game I have not taken many shots but here are a few:- 20220902214315_1.jpg 20220902222457_1.jpg [/ATTACH] 20220903013824_1.jpg

    These are default with no INI changes.
     
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  10. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Those 3 images also show the problem nicely. The trains still seem to be lit independently of their environment, or they are being illuminated by an invisible light source. Whichever it is it has been a major sticking point for a long time.

    The first image highlights it perfectly. Where is the light illuminating the side of the train coming from? Even if the sun were still poking above the horizon, the superstructure of the line to the left of the picture would mean the Javelin should be in total darkness, and the only light should be being cast by static lighting on the platform.

    The final image shows the same thing. The sky is all but overcast, so where is the sun light coming from to create all of those shadows? Why is the side of the unit lit like a helicopter is hovering out of shot shining a NightSun onto it? I understood the clouds were supposed to cast shadows…again where are they? That is the sort of scene where that should be really apparent but there is nothing. The lighting in the picture makes no sense at all!

    Just because it’s better than TSW2 doesn’t mean it is good, because the vast majority of TSW2 lighting looked woeful. It’s a step forward for sure but there needs to be much more done to sort this out. I really hope this isn’t seen as ‘job done’ with a big tick put next to Lighting and it now gets forgotten about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  11. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I remember a time when I passionately post a beautiful volumetric sky from DCS. Comments: This is not a flight sim - they seem ridiculous now. A very big change. TSW now looks insane and very realistic.
     
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  12. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    Yes I see what you are saying. From what I know of the UE4 game engine light calculations are very computationally intensive. Both on the GPU/CPU. UE4 does a lot to fake light and there is a general amount of light in the scene. To more realistically reflect light off models requires more calculations. Its a trade off you want real time lighting effects but don't want to spend too much time calculating them per frame. Your comments made me think of HDR and Ray-tracing and how these might change the quality of the lighting?
     
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  13. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    some clear sky pictures
     

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  14. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    It’s interesting. I’m a total luddite and have zero experience with any of this, but from what I’ve seen UE4 seems very capable in this regard. You only have to watch a few tutorials to see how seemingly easy it is (if you know what you’re doing) to make things look pretty damn good.

    This is a very short tutorial, but from 2 mins on it’s plainly obvious how quickly it can be done, and how customisable it is. Surely a multi-million pound games studio should be doing better than even TSW3. It only takes seconds to see where the clear issues lie with this game, yet in this example tutorial I don’t see some elements casting shadows whilst some aren’t, where light incorrectly illuminates parts of a scene where there should be none and so on. There must be a reason for it, but I just don’t get why TSW still doesn’t look right after all this time, and particularly after it’s been ‘ripped up and rebuilt from the ground up’. That’s clearly not true, because the same issues are there just like they’ve always been. The guy is literally checking boxes to enable different features such as distant field shadows, light shafts, light shaft bloom, cloud shadows etc. Why is it proving so difficult in TSW3 to make it look like this (Gen 8 consoles here’s looking at you…)



    5cip first image again shows the problem with the train perfectly. Why is the side of the moving 365 lit so brightly? That should be in shadow, because the sun is casting shadows from the scenery on the left. For that unit lighting to be correct the sun would have to be at the 10 or 11 o’clock position and much higher in the sky, which would make the shadows cast by the trees all wrong.

    I just don’t get why DTG aren’t seeing this. They are obviously aware that lighting is an issue, but I just don’t understand why they’ve ‘totally rebuilt’ it yet come up with many of the same problems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  15. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    JetWash The limited shadow draw distance I can see, but I'm not seeing these invisible light sources or strangely-illuminated trains as you're claiming. Just because the sun is below the horizon doesn't mean everything is plunged into darkness. The ambient light of dusk looks relatively uniform, as it should. And the position of the sun and shadows also looks fine to me.

    Cheers
     
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  16. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure what you mean when you say you can’t see it, it’s right there in front of you! I’m not sure I can describe it in any clear a fashion without manipulating the screenshots which I can’t do on a phone.

    Next time you see a sunset in the real world similar to those pictures wait until the sun has disappeared below the horizon then go and stand on the side of a solid object facing away from where the sun has just been. Pick something reflective if you wish. Now tell me that that object has sunlight reflecting off of it, or that the object and everything around it is not in almost complete darkness.

    If you were on the other side (i.e. the side facing the sun) and it was a reflective object then sure, you would see the sky etc in that object until the ambient light disappeared, but where there is something solid between you and the source of light it would be to all intents and purposes dark, with only ambient light as a source of illumination.

    If you maintain it’s correct however, how do you account for the reflective light on the ICE windows but not on anything else? They are on the other side of a solid object, and there should be zero reflections emanating from them. Equally, that whole side of the train should be much darker than it is. It just looks wrong and out of place.

    I’d also reiterate again that in the promo streams Matt specifically said clouds would cast shadows but I’ve yet to see a single one. As you can see if you watched that short tutorial it’s a simple check box in UE4. I wonder if they’ve quietly ‘unticked’ it to regain some of the performance that was obviously lost in the early streams.
     
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  17. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Kinda hoping this was more to celebrate the improvements rather than pull the lighting apart.
     
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  18. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Well, OP’s don’t get to dictate what’s discussed in a thread they start. I’ve noticed that seems to be becoming a thing here, where people start a thread and then dictate to others in the OP what they can and can’t discuss in it. There was one started this morning that said ‘screenshots allowed’. The poster and mods get to decide that, not the OP! I think this discussion is on topic so it’s fair game, if the moderators think otherwise then so be it. If needs be it can be hived off into another thread.

    Anyway, the major improvement as far as I can see is the volumetric sky and the way it is lit as a consequence. I’ll happily concede that that is a major positive change but was an existing feature in the UE4 armoury. Were it not for that however, aside from the fact that the whole scene is brighter than in TSW2, I’m not really seeing a huge amount of difference to be honest. Certainly not ‘ripped up and started again’ difference.
     
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  19. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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    And now everyone understands why some ( including me) since TSW have been hard on DTG about lighting and Sky it should never have taken this long for something that has such a profound effect on the overall presentation to be addressed however now that it is what a difference it makes and full props to DTG for getting it done.

    Now all that's left is to allow it to sync to real word live weather data :P
     
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  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not dismissing your passion about the lighting so not really any need to make yourself look silly with comments like that to be fair. Nothing dictatorial intended in my comment.

    Anyhow, here's a few more ....

    Screenshot (211).png Screenshot (220).png Screenshot (222).png Screenshot (229).png
     
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  21. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    You mean the reflection on an ultra glossy surface tilted upwards towards the sky?
     
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  22. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I know what you’re implying there, but yes, that’s exactly what I mean.

    Look at the last image in the post two above this. That is much more how it should look. Given time of day in that shot is perhaps 20 minutes later there is no reason for the huge discrepancy between the way to two scenes are lit. I would expect, if the camera had been moved around to the other side of the train, to see that side dimly lit with some faint reflections of the sky from reflective surfaces. The side we’re looking at looks pretty much correct.

    The problem is also a lack of consistency which is what makes me think there is something going on with the way trains are lit. Compare the 3rd and 4th images in chieflongshin post. Why is the train in the 4th picture totally dark, and the same train on the same route in the 3rd picture illuminated? It makes no sense. Both of those images should look like picture 4.

    As an aside, God alone knows what is going on in the first image. Every train in that shot is lit differently from it’s surroundings, differently from each other and differently from anything I’ve ever seen with my own eyes.

    I’m really pleased to see progress being made on the lighting and particularly the sky, but if everyone starts waxing lyrical about how great it is (when it demonstrably isn’t) they’ll likely think job done and do no further work on it. You only have to look at the new TSW3 early access board to see there are clearly issues with it still, and DTG need that feedback.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  23. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I am currently busy with a run on Cajon and cannot abort without the bloody save feature, but when it's finished I'll mess around with time of day and see what happens.

    Edit:
    I can confirm that clouds do cast shadows when blocking the sun, but I haven't checked yet from how far the shadow cast is visible.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  24. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    That would be really helpful as for me it was always the problem in TSW2. It could look stunning one second and then like a dropped trifle the next. That was almost entirely down to the time of day and the way it interacted with the environment, particularly the trains themselves. I had really hoped to see that consigned to the history bin and perhaps to an extent that’s the case with the environment, but there’s clearly still work to do on the trains.

    I raised the cloud shadow issue because in not a single screenshot in this thread can I see a shadow cast by a cloud. Given the stunning sunsets in some of them I would have expected to see some real long shadows cast. That was what had me wondering.

    Anyway, with that I’ve hopefully made my point in a constructive way, and hopefully DTG take it onboard. I’ll bow out now and leave it to the pictures :)
     
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  25. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. I am having too much fun at the moment playing with SEHS (have to remind myself there is the German and US route I have yet to explore) but this is a greath thread idea thanks for creating it.
    A few more:- 20220903140217_1.jpg 20220903140406_1.jpg 20220903140518_1.jpg 20220903140426_1.jpg
     
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  26. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    JetWash Here are some shots of an area on Cajon with the sunlight blotted out by a large cloud. It is also visible from a much further distance than typical shadows.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cheers
     
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  27. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    Screenshot 2022-09-03 151344.png
     
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  28. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Only posting again in reply to this then I promise I’ll bow out.

    Thanks for looking but that isn’t at all what I would expect to see when we’re talking about shadows cast by clouds. There are only a couple of clouds in the sky, so the whole scene should be lit by sunlight with only single shadows on the ground cast by visible clouds.

    If you contrast those images with the post by KMAN, how on earth does that overcast sky have sunlight casting shadows in spite of the almost complete cloud cover, yet your images with an almost clear sky show no sunlight cast over the ground at all? The only consistent thing about it is the inconsistency!

    EDITED TO ADD - I have to say though, there does seem to be a significant improvement in a lot of these shots with the way the scenery fades to the vanishing point in the sort of hazy way it does in the real world. It’s not in all of them (consistency again!) but it looks much more realistic than has been achieved before.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  29. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Huh? The sun is behind the big cloud, which is why the area directly within the shadow-casting path is darker than the rest. The last screenshot shows you the big picture.

    Cheers
     
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  30. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Some magnificent looking screenshots.
     
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  31. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but look where the sun is! I didn’t even realise that was the shadow you’re referring to as it’s in the wrong place. Given where the sun is the shadow for that cloud should be almost right in front of the camera. A lot of the ground surrounding the shadow is also much too dimly lit for a clear sky like that. I’m in CA as I’m typing this and with the sun high in the sky like that the terrain is full of vivid colours and deep shadows, it looks awesome and nothing like those images sadly.
     
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  32. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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  33. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The shadow is casting in wrong place? How so? I think you're overestimating how high the clouds are in 3D space--they hang pretty low. It's really only possible to demonstrate in a video.

    And I've been through the Idaho and Utah boonies with clouds casting shadows over the land. The shading is fine.

    EDIT: be mindful that the ground in my screenshots will probably look darker because I'm staring the camera into the sun (with the eye adaptation effect darkening the scene to compensate) and also this was the California bushfire scenario, so everything is a little hazy. Also we should probably continue this in a different thread. Ping me if you do.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  34. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Gentlemen, I have already deleted my biting post. This is the thread for pictures :D It will always be more or less realistic, but we all have to agree - this is a significant improvement!
     
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  35. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Assuming we’re talking about the 4th shot, the cloud is between the camera and the sun, so it’s impossible for the shadow to be cast into the far distance. It would either be vertically downwards or even behind the camera.

    Just read your edit, that makes much more sense. It’s just getting light here and the sun isn’t up and that’s what it looks like, that sort of hazy pre-dawn light.

    With that said, I mean it this time….I’m out ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
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  36. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    We must be looking at different pictures because the cloud is definitely not between the camera and sun.

    Cheers
     
  37. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Blimey, those are some cracking shots there, this sim really is looking great to me. Keep it going DTG!
     
  38. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    For anyone out there who hasn't tried out TSW3 but intends on doing so, I highly recommend doing your first drive by choosing the very first ICE 1 service in the timetable, especially under the September clear skies setting. Dont forget to have dynamic weather as well!
    I thought it was the perfect service that showcased all that TSW3 is about!

    [​IMG]
     
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  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Very impressive shots of the Cajon Pass landscape lighting and the new skybox.

    My only question is: Where are the headlights?

    Even during daylight hours, they should be 100 times brighter.
     
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  40. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    I would say the shadow was below the cloud - that’s how it appears to my eyes anyway.
     
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  41. Champsith

    Champsith Member

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    20220902201003_1.jpg 20220902202721_1.jpg 20220902203915_1.jpg 20220902204957_1.jpg 20220902210210_1.jpg
    These where taken on my very first run of TSW3 last night and just wow! Absolutely blown away. Deep purple leaving Faversham, pink sunrise with the rain, clearing to golden sun on the side of the 395.
     
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  42. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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  43. Champsith

    Champsith Member

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    Absolutely agree! I'm a mainline driver in the Uk and honestly at some moments it actually felt like I was on an early shift on this trip.
     
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  44. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    not really a thread for "PC Discussion" but some of the picture do look nice
     
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  45. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just going to leave this one here.....

    I think this may be one of my new favourite screen shots.

    Screenshot (231).png
     
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  46. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Ha, I saw the exact same opportunity in that scenario but your shot has a much better angle.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers
     
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  47. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes i do like backlight composition photographs. Leaving Barstow Yard.
    [​IMG]
     
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  48. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Heading into the wilfdfire...... Screenshot (235).jpeg
     
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  49. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    Not sure this image is going to show the subtle night sky but it is lovely as you get the slight glow from the ground lights and then it get slightly darker as you move away from the horizon. I rarely played TSW2 night services but this ECS from Dartford to Gillingham was great. At one point I realised I was completely lost as I play without HUD.
    20220903161312_1.jpg
     
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  50. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cheers
     
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