TSW4 seems to be a reality now and it's looking likely to hit us very soon. Even if it's not a seperate game, it'll be a 'refresh' of TSW, regardless. Presuming it is a seperate game, it's almost a given that you'll have to pay for it, and similarly to how TSW2 is being treated as of now, it's unlikely that TSW3 versions of DLC will be updated and looked after, beyond the end of the TSW3 lifecycle. I would love to be proven wrong, however. With TSW3 the cheapest, permanent, bundle are the regional starter packs, which come in around £25, £30. That's the core game + routes. For TSW4, and anything beyond it, the upgrade should be free. A simple upgrade option, allowing players to get the Core of the newer installment, with all compatable DLC transferring from TSW2020, TSW2 or TSW3. No DLCs would be included, just the game itself. Pros • Nobody's left behind on an (unofficially) unsupported version of the game • Players don't have to spend £25+ to get the newest installment, and they don't have to buy a DLC they may not want to buy. • Freedom going forward: You then have the ability to buy whatever DLC you want, when you want, without having to pay for the core. • You don't have complaints of people "buying their DLC again". • Less complaint about TSW2/3 DLCs being left without updates - and simplifies the process for DTG, as they only have to update it on the most recent version(s). Cons • Fills up space on the "My Library" screen. (very trivial). A short and simple suggestion for what would be a really amazing feature. It irons out most of the criticisms of now (particularly yearly) releases in the franchise and makes literally everyone's life easier. Thank you.
They’d better do this because if they think they can pull another TSW outta their arse and get me to buy it again they have lost their minds! If I was being honest though, I don’t really know if we even need an upgrade — if it was me making the games, I’d probably still be on the first TSW, like, what would they even add for a fourth one: we got dynamic weather, fancy lighting, I think we’re probably fine where we are, no?
Honestly with TSW4 dropping - Ive dropped TSW3 and 2 altogether and started playing TSC. I hate to say it but probably one of the best deciscions ive ever made relating to games. TSW is a prime example on how NOT to make a simulator. Core updated cost 19-40 quid a peace, note, TSC updates yearly core wise but is free, buy it once always have the latest core. Horrendous excuse of editors: Livery Designer is alright I guess but the scenario planner is just horrendous while the TSC route and scenario editor are amazing and don't have to comply with Old Gen. Has extreme limitations due to not only being for PC while TSC being only for PC. Overall - Im probably going to full on quit TSW unless DTG make some MAJOR improvments to there systems. I respect if you play TSW due to consoles but if you have a somewhat decent PC, try TSC with a few AP packs on some really good routes, you'll see what I mean. Whoops went on a negative rant here. Yeah I agree - core updates should NOT be payed for. I wouldn't mind if they start making the update free but have a + version for PC (which you only need to buy once) that has updated and isnt held back by consoles. My thoughts anyway.
I looked at TSW3 as a route bundle. I wanted 2 of them so it was worth the money. I shall look at TSW4 in the same way. If there isn’t a route bundle I want at a decent price, then I won’t get it. I still very much prefer TSC anyway. With enhancement packs it still looks very good and there is a great variety of stock and busy routes. So I can live without buying anymore TSW until the price is right. What annoys me a lot is there is still a lot broken in TSW3 which means that I still have to have TSW2 installed for example if I want to play Rapid Transit. Unless there has been a huge bug purge in TSW4, then I’ll likely have to have 3 versions installed, as for sure they will break something new that worked in TSW3. Having said all that. The mod that was released today for MML really shows what TSW is capable of and I’ve been playing it non stop since I finished work. So TSW has a huge amount of unrealised potential.
I honestly don't see the point of having a new TSW game every 2 years or so.. What could TSW4 bring that isn't already in TSW3? It just seems like a waste to code a new game every time. If TSW4 becomes a reality, I will not be getting it espesially as TSW3 cost 30 quid which yes, is cheap compared to other games such as Forza Horizon 5 which is around £80 put still. TSW is becoming a game franchise when it shouldn't be as it is a train simulator and not a game with a story that requires sequels as if its a film. I cannot keep up with these new games and I might end up stop playing TSW which I don't want to as TSW3 is the favourite game and is also one of the only ones I play on my Xbox..
Not really the point of the thread, at all + most people wouldn't really include themselves in the "gullible" or "idiots" category. If someone wants to buy the new TSW game, it's their choice.
To be clear - this thread isn't a thread about buying TSW4 / DTG's "money grabbing" - it's a proposal of a solution. It means everyone's on the most up-to-date version of the franchise, for free, and they can buy future DLC when they want. That way, nobody misses out on updates that are (unofficially) exclusive to the most recent TSW Title, and don't have to pay to transfer their already-owned collection. For dovetail, they lose nothing; the people who wanted to buy the core bundle with new routes would still get to buy the routes, and it stops people complaining and/or acting like some intellectual who "saw through DTG" because they didn't buy it, as has been done above.
That's not really gullible, most people do it because they want it, not because they've been persuaded to do it.
TSW 4 needs to offer something groundbreaking to justify an update from TSW 3, until then there is no point of making customers pay for the same game over and over again, it’s predatory and it drives customers from playing your game, if it’s a free core update then fair enough bring it on, but if it’s paid, then there has to be something justifiable for its heavy price tag. Either way I’m not really losing because it will come to gamepass
Realistically if buying the new game is the same price as buying a route add on for tsw3 then what difference does it make, other than you’re most likely going to get a better game and upgraded content? It doesn’t make a difference if it’s a new game or just a dlc for tsw3, so i don’t see the big deal really
I'll reiterate what I've already, I for one do not feel like a gullible idiot, while yes there are some long outstanding bugs that do need addressing, overall I am still very satisfied with Tsw so will you please stop with the 'we're all gullible idiots' nonsense, because you do not speak for all of us
Well I’m not classing myself as a gullible idiot. More somebody that gets frustrated by DTG sometimes but through selective purchase of DLC and waiting for sales, gets a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of the game. I’d suggest you are only an idiot if you no longer enjoy the game and continue to support DTG with further purchases. I spent 5 hours straight playing both DTG Train Sims last night and really enjoyed it. The only 3rd party I’ve abandoned is Rivet, purely for lack of communication and commitment to fixes - I just don’t enjoy there DLCs anymore. I hope TSW4 isn’t a paid update (I suspect it is). But if I want the routes and the reviews are ok, then I’d be more of an idiot not to buy something I’ll enjoy. If some anonymous person on the internet thinks I’m an idiot for doing that, so be it. I won’t lose much sleep over it.
Mate seriously, I've been playing Tsw for 5 years now and I'm enjoying it more then ever, no in denial state here.
As I perfectly called out, this "I'm so smart because I saw through DTG" attitude becomes apparent. To suggest that anyone who buys TSW and it's DLCs is a "Gullible Idiot" means the last word firmly applies to you. People buy the game and the DLC because they want it. Pretty much everyone is now aware of the long/infinite wait for patches for quite a lot of things, most people aren't buying stuff on the grounds of "It'll get better, DTG promised!". TSW has a lot wrong with it but I still play it because I enjoy it. That doesn't make me gullible at all. If you think it does, open a dictionary. I haven't bought a DLC in Seven months, so it's hardly as if I'm pumping money in. Although, my collection now stands up at over £200. Was I tricked? No. Was it fully by choice? Yes. Your arrogant stance would be appreciated in another thread.
Genuinely sorry to read that as I always found your posts in the past really constructive and interesting, even when I didn’t agree with them. Can totally understand your feelings. I’ve felt the same with specific issues in the past and had temporary absences from the game, but it’s always somehow drawn me back. Hope you find something else to enjoy or maybe DTG release something that interests you again.
I do agree that core updates should be free, with only content packs being charged for. That said, having bought TSC with several AP packs (Weather, 4 Train Enhancement packs, Track Pack) on a very good PC, I'm sticking with TSW. TSC is just incredibly dated, looks visually inferior to TSW in pretty much every way (even with AP packs and RW Enhancer 2). The trains aren't as interactable as they are in TSW, you're stuck in your seat all the time. The UI/HUD is incredibly dated. The timetable feature of TSW is so much better than having to download specific scenarios/create your own on TSC. The only things TSC have going in it's favour are a massively better Scenario Maker, and much more content. But you need to spend an absolute fortune on AP packs and RW Enhancer just to get it still looking much worse, and trains being less interactable than TSW is at stock. The only reason I still use TSC at all is due to the South Wales Mainline, and the Class 800. If both of those were in TSW, TSC would be uninstalled for good.
They're just giving the new core out for free, in this suggestion. Not the Core DLCs, nothing like that. It means that people aren't forced to buy stuff they don't want to in order to transfer their collection over, and it means people on older editions wouldn't be left in the update-less void. Dovetail lose nothing (the people who would use this option wouldn't have much interest, anyway), and it allows them to repackage the game as they see fit. It's essentially TSW2020 / TS20××, but on a different core package. Because for some reason DTG don't like using the same core game and just updating it.
Who knows why not? Could be a lack of technical capability, insufficient resources, concern over breaking what already exists, no desire, etc. While most developers will want to create the best product possible, commercial realities intervene. Perhaps TSW4 will reignite your interest? I'm struggling with my interest in another simulator at the moment. Development has noticeably shifted to the new version coming next year, which has resulted in more and more regression issues cropping up after every update. TSW isn't perfect by any means, yet it's far more enjoyable for me at the moment.
Personally - Even for Simulators - Graphics suprisngly don't effect much for me: A good comparitive to this is probably OMSI - its dated sure but its still really fun to play and has that charm like TSC. For me and my TSW experience I've never cared for the passanger and non driver experiences, and railfanning can be done easily in TSC with a few nifty tools. And there are countless UI upgrades. I do agree on the timetable part but I mean, the TSW timetable is bugged to no end so its not like its perfect.
That's fair enough, I like to be immersed in my simulators, and I really can't do that if the graphics, especially lighting are looking bad. It brings me out of it too much. Do you have a link/name of any UI upgrades for TSC? Wouldn't mind trying some out.
Unfortunatly the personal UI upgrade I use is from UKTS which is unfortunatly closing down next year. (https://members.uktrainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=32172 encase you have a UKTS account) Ill look around if there are any more however for you. And I think I might of made a mistake - When I said UI I meant HUD not as in the menu UI just encase that wasn't clear, sorry for any misundertsandings.
Yep I agree, TSC doesn’t hold a single candle to TSW when it comes to looks and scenery, in other things though TSC beats TSW
When it comes to scenery I'd debate that - Some TSC routes are beyond BEUTIFUL and nothing other than *maybe* Nitterlabhan holds any candle to those.
I mean yea, some TSC routes are beyond beautiful I agree (WCMLOS, Riviera Line), but some TSC routes are hideous without EPs (ECML and WCML south, Portsmouth Direct line, York -Pboro)
Don't forget Freeware, Payware and Subware routes. OTS routes: Especially Northern Lines (both), Harrogate Line and Cumbrian Coast (albeit havent played Cumbrian Coast - Look beutiful from the odd TSTV stream I watch). ATS routes like the Leeds Line, Leeds merge, Cambridge-Peterborough and Kings Cross-Llyn and other routes hosted such as Chat Moss and WCMLM&NW and the ECML merge (albeit compared to others it isn't the best) and ofcourse the loads of freeware routes of varying quality: Things like PDL updated. And the odd Workshop route with examples being SEML network and north kent. Aswell theres the other routes like VDL and south chesire which are extremely well done.
I still love TSC, I love the variety of Traffic and I've always preferred Scenarios to timetables. As can be seen by the photos above it can look absolutely stunning. I've been downloading routes from ATS and some of the more recent ones from Just Trains and while the graphics may not be as sharp as TSW, the lineside clutter, full stations and busy traffic along with the standard selection of AP enhancements, make it still my preferred game. I would go as far to say the AP weather / clouds and signals are actually better than TSW even if the train models and some of the scenery modelling is better in TSW. Having said that, I've spent a lot on enhancements and routes to get it to this point, probably more than I should have! The other thing keeping me in TSC is steam trains. Maybe it's because I'm more a GWR fan than LMS, but I just don't get on with Steam Trains in TSW. I've been trying to build up as much GWR Stock as I can and some of the workshop scenarios for Riviera Line in the 50's and Falmouth Branch are wonderful. At the end of the day it's my Hobby and I love both sims even with the occasional frustrations DTG throw in. To keep slightly on Topic. I'm still open minded about TSW4. I shall sit back, enjoy the hype and suspense and try not to jump to any conclusions (Apart from the fact that there probably is a TSW4). I didn't mind paying for TSW3 as I only had to pay for the German Route bundle as I already had SOS and SEH and am not so bothered about US Routes, so it didn't seem so bad value. I do agree the upgrade to TSW4 should be free and you should pay for the route bundle if you want that (It's worked for me in TSC, I've bought the route bundles most years because they've been good value). What have they got to lose really - 6 months later they'll be practically giving it away in a sale anyway.
Im going to say something relavant to the topic of TSW4 real quick - It going free would *not* be the best move money wise. Let me just say if you do one dive on your files of TSW3 on PC you'll relize how every DLC is stored - I decided to test this one day by removing one of the .pak files - route disappeared. I put it back in, immeditaly shows up no questions asked. Now whos to say you can't just crack every dlc this way? Im not suggesting it or even saying it works but if it does then that means it would be way to easy to just not pay for DLC if on PC, especially with recent quality making it really not worth it. TBF this works ONLY for steam as other ways actually has good anti-piracy methods but yeah - trust me - It is harder to crack an entire game then dlcs. Talking soely buisness - I am NOT suggesting or telling anyone to crack TSW - Please do not.
Not to mention the Lincoln lines, and Kent Coast Lines, as well as West Somerset Railway and the Riviera line in the 1950s
Lincoln lines is one I've never played, don't know what Kent Coast Lines is. And WSR is better with the enchantment pack but still really good and riveria lines 50s is a good one.
if only DTG didn't start making a new TSW game as soon as the previous one released and we'd have so many new DLC's to a high quality
well considering that routes to 4-6 months to build (obviously that number varies) to make a new game and 3 routes for it will take a year minimum so if TSW4 is to come out this year that they have been working on it sometime shortly after the release of TSW3
Erm, no? Using your logic, DTG can only work on one DLC at a time. Also using your logic, a route is minimum four months, maximum six. That means the three routes would, according to you, take a total of 15 - 18 months to create. If TSW4 were to release in, say, September, that would mean that TSW4 would have to be in the works before TSW3 released. Which is just not remotely accurate. That's not to mention the placement of Birmingham Cross City, Bremen - Oldenburg, Peak Forest, Linke Rheinstrecke and Glossop Line in there as well. Dovetail work on multiple DLCs at once (last I can remember hearing was that they had two teams for route development), and routes take 4 Months to develop at maximum, based on the history of TSW. TLDR - You are totally wrong in every way possible with this claim.
