…in return for our various outgoings of £34, £54 etc., is a partnership or undertaking by DTG to knuckle down and address key issues during the lifespan of TSW5. No more excuses. Use the money we have given you to headhunt and employ programmers who can work with UE to sort out the core issues that seem to elude the current team. These have been listed in many places before and usually ignored by DTG but include, though not limited to… The Save Game. More slots and remaining bugs (saves over multiple continuous runs for example) ironed out. Lighting. Still needs a major overhaul with more user configurable options based on the unofficial mod but at a minimum a toggle for adaptive eye plus sliders for gamma, brightness and contrast. Optimise the game engine to remove rubber banding particularly of sounds. WCMLS is a subject in its own right but consider bringing back the Preservation Crew who can immediately take charge of content that has slipped at QA or needs some post release snagging. Employ more in house talent for UK route building and do not use associates with a poor quality reputation for second party subcontract work. An easier editor for user creation of timetables and scenarios that doesn’t require a degree in UE to understand and use. Like I said, we have once again taken a leap of faith, time for you to deliver in the next 12 months.
Yeah, I suppose we can all dream, but you have handed DTG your money, that is your part of the transaction done, so be on your merry way, run along now and don't be bothering the nice men and women at DTG with such silly ideas of getting them to fix their own product.
I really think Rivet should be stopped from releasing DLC for TSW until they make improvements to the existing routes they’ve released. Just Trains and Skyhook are both head and shoulders above Rivet. If Rivet don’t have the resources, maybe upping the quality will result in more cash flow.
I hope they use the money to fix San Bernardino. I still don't get how Frankfurt can run smoothly but a US route with almost no traffic can make the demo PC stumble over tracks and ballast
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome. Tbh Im surprised that people are falling for the promises yet again. Its software. Its not going anywhere and it wont run out. If you wait until its actually worth buying, then you wont suffer buyers regret. Fear of missing out is just bonkers when youre talking about a substandard product, and it reduces pressure on the manufacturer to fix their product. If its fixed, I'll gladly pay full price as at that point Im rewarding quality. This approach coincidentally, might encourage post release support.
That's impossible. UE is a professional software that professionals use to do professinal stuff. How should it be possible to break down the complexity of this tool so everyone understands it but it has the same power as the "complex" version of it? There is a good reason why it's that complex.
EDIT: Oh I see you were comparing them to Rivet. Does this image still apply then? Is there a Rivet DLC that is worse than the DB BR187. Also wasn't there a freight route that wasn't well received? How did that go?
Rivet have their strengths though, their models and scenario building skills are good, it's their scenery, sounds and timetabling that let them down. Like, none of their train models have been any worse than any other devs.
People are very quick to forget that before the dumper fire that was MML's release, Skyhook were just as, if not worse, than Rivet.
But I suppose the point is they've improved, and we hope Rivet does as well. More developers means more routes. We just want good routes and trains at the end of the day.
Skyhook still are worse IMO. It took how many people to work with them to get the 158 into the rather decent state it is. it took them a year to correct some significant issues on a 30mile route. They have been riding on the success of those fixes, to a route which in all honesty, whilst nice, isn’t exactly anything special - it’s got nothing going for it really due to the limited scope. Their own releases since then have been wagon packs, which relative to other content are fairly expensive & even those haven’t been 100% correct or even licensed. They have also just rereleased the 158 for the same cost as a new loco. IMO they really haven’t done anything to put them on a pedestal, other than fix one of their many faulty & subpar products.
Appreciate the replies guys and with you 110% on the WCMLS and Rivet situation. However the intention of starting this thread was to cover the wider aspects of the core DTG now need to invest our money back into fixing and improving so would be grateful if we could focus on that, thanks.
I think the problem with the ‘Core’ is that it doesn’t really exist. Im not really sure what it is DTG start with when they develop a route but it seems to be very little, as the consistency of things is so bizarre. Personally I’d obviously like to see the improvements you listed, however I think what needs to happen first is DTG stop treating every DLC as its own piece of software. Bringing all the content inline & going forward with an up to date & consistent development step list would be the single biggest improvement TSW would see.
EA has been making yearly FIFA games since around 1995. They never had any serious competition in the football game market, so they got complacent and released the exact same game over and over again. The only update was the team roster and colours. Nothing ever changed. People bought the games because they had no other option, so EA knew they had a guaranteed income every year. Most DTG employees worked for EA.
That's not a very strong point for negotiations, Vern. You've given the money in advance for their soon ending financial year, paid for the DLC after refunding twice (to think they would care is a bit naive). Paying means you're accepting the product as it is. To think they now would owe you something - I wouldn't have expected that from someone who knows DTG like you do... anyway, enjoy! (But don't expect anything!)
Also on similar note, start looking at a central asset repository which routes can reference for items we know are repeated across different DLC, trees, generic buildings etc. That would make a start on optimising the file sizes and HD footprint.
It was the German route that swayed it Pete. I know this thread and what’s been put forward will eventually wither away and die and in 12 months time the same familiar conversations will be circulating. But you never know, this could be the year everything changes. The Focus overlords wake up and pay heed to what is happening at DTG and light a fire under their corporate backsides!
On the back of that the training centre could really help to centralise rolling stock too. Dostos, 146, 66’s, 185’s, freight wagons etc. How many of us have a bloated install purely because we want a layer from a route? Let alone the same locos that are actually different, because DTG don’t keep them all in line feature-wise. The UK & to some extent the US is trickier of course, but for German Routes they take layers from all over the place & I don’t think DTG holds much value in a DB TRAXX these days.
I think Focus will be happy with DTG, I've seen no indicator that they've done something wrong from a business standpoint. They've stirred appetite and preorders - job done! It all looks much better than the TSW4 release. Watching the streams, DTG are a very happy, relaxed bunch, everything's cool. A WCMLS thread don't mean anything for Focus. It's the sales figures, nothing else. If a product that took less resources sells, even better! Don't get me wrong, we all want it to be better, but lately I feel more comfortable in taking the "reality check" position, mainly because in the past I've exhausted myself with hope and expectations, only to find out the damage is done to myself then. They showed you the product, it's up to you to accept or dismiss. These two options you have. Money talks. Frankfurt does look good indeed. San Berdoo - will probably get boring after two runs, a filler route for me I'll eventually pick up in a sale. WCMLS shines in TSC with an abundance of stock to run on with great Workshop and AP scenarios.
Not impossible at all. Everything you see in front of you now is 1's and 0's. Do you have to figure out the binary code to write your own txt file? No, because over the years the user interface has been streamlined to do all of that hard stuff that used to be done manually. I don't create 3d models by typing in millions of vertex locations, I use the tools that have been created to make the process more intuitive. I don't type machine code any more (thank goodness!), I use managed languages that make everything more efficient and reliable. The visual UI of blueprints and modules in UE is 100% this, a plug-and-play method of writing code (primarily for those who can't write code!). Those pretty coloured blocks and connection diagrams are totally superfluous to making things happen, you could do it all by typing code - they're a simplified user interface. There's no reason a simplified timetable app couldn't be created which then generates the required code that plugs into TSW/UE. UE is currently required to check the timetables but creating the "train A go to stop B" could easily be done in a simpler user-friendly fashion. You could create something for TSC that does the same, it would need to be designed to generate the xml files that TSC uses for it's scenarios. That kind of interface/app just takes time and effort, and honestly shouldn't be required because DTG shouldn't be expecting users to fix their half baked projects anyway. But it's not even close to impossible.
The other unseen factor in my decision (not taking my own thread OT and not being overly political) is that our glorious new Government here in the UK may be contemplating a rise in VAT come the October budget. Rumoured could be up to 5% which will of course apply to any software purchased off Steam. Also going to make my eventual PC upgrade or replacement for Win 11 that bit more expensive, though that’s for another thread.
Thanks for the support Pete. I do recall that Open Rails or maybe one of the utilities for MSTS evolved a fairly simple table like spreadsheet style interface that could be used to set up complex timetables. That’s what I would be looking for as a front end on UE, if DTG spend the money on a programmer who could make it work. Rather than weaving (Wheel Of Time style), lots of little boxes and folders together in the UE editor.
That's the price to pay when using a licensed FPS game engine - you have to use its tools. The Scenario Planner is an example of how to do a higher level editor from ingame, that produces valid UE data. Its output file is rather small, as its just a simple piece of data with loco spawn points and destinations, using the TSW routing UE commands. Making timetables in Zusi3 is fairly straightforward, using standard Windows dialogs. The editor outputs the timetable xmls, service xmls and the Ebula and Buchfahrplan xml (choose your era for appropriate layout). Just making your first steps here, adding modules to form a route, setting up a train (with substitution probability per car) and giving it a timetable takes less than 10 minutes. No cooking and such required. And you can open and edit all the game data in its supplied editors. Also TSC is using a thoughtfully laid out editor. Drop a loco onto the rails, and click its destinations. Spice it up with lua scripts.
I really hope TSW6 will be a better showing. Yes there are some nice new QoL improvements but I have the feeling I buy TSW5 just for the German route and not because it is TSW5 the new version.
I would love for TSW to adopt the same model as TSC where it's updated for free every year. I purchased my copy of TSC about 15 years ago and it still gives me access to the latest version, which is amazing.
Yeah, its really sad for a gaming community where new releases can be greeted with low or no expectations, as a very understandable automatic & in-built self-protection mechanism. I admit I don’t have the history of the many loyal (& very patient) gamers here. I only joined the TSW express at Station 3. So, I’m still enjoy the passion & buzz around this wonderful hobby especially around (new?) version & DLC releases. At heart, I’m a window shopper & take some time research fully what I want before I spend a single dollar. Only recently picked up TSW4 Special Edition for $25 on both PS5 & PC. I am happy to wait for the dust to settle. Just as well because I’m not a very good beta tester. So, I want to try remain hopeful, optimistic & positive about TSW improving their infrastructure before I have to alight the train. I have had many gaming disappointments in other games & sims (versions / patches can break things regardless of new content. I come from DCS where modules can be broken and access to paid content can be removed at each release). But disappointment is part of the passion/pain cycle. In the long term, holding developers to account with high expectations is generally healthy for both developers and the community, for a solid ongoing partnership. High expectations + No happy = No money. No listening = Weak partnership. Weak partnership = No money. And if no happy & weak partnership at station 6 after a 3-station journey, maybe time to switch trains. A TSC 24 Steam train awaits me, and then of course there are other train networks to explore. As the OP points out, focus is key on the core issues from a community perspective. IMHO station 5 presents a good opportunity for DTG to enhance and/or upgrade their in-house infrastructure, before the next stop, when some more passengers may alight the train.
First impression does not sit well. I have a TSW 3 feeling with this version. Most of the stuff that seemed improved in TSW 4 was undone in TSW 5. Performance feels really off, also the UI feels weird again. Not really impressed with TSW 5 at this moment.
