Tvm Is A Buggy Mess

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by nielsmallant100, Dec 20, 2020.

  1. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    I really like the new LGV DLC but playing with TVM on is almost impossible now.
    On the scenario "Bad Things" TVM is completely broken and giving me penalty brakes in between signals while going well under the signal speed.
    When getting a flashing 320 you will get an emergency brake without receiving a new target speed, regardless of your speed. Some TVM signals are very close to each other, which is realistic, but the speed drops inbetween the signals is not realistic. There are some signal boards literally less than 200 metres from each other which expect you to slow down 30kmh in 100/200 metres, that is physically impossible for the train. Please DTG, test your stuff, cause I know I am not the only one with these issues, as proven by other forum posts.
     
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  2. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    When you see the flashing 320 on your panel you have to set the dynamic brakes to max (10) and reduce the speed to 300 km/h, because from the next block the max permitted speed will be 300 km/h. The same with the other flashing speeds: 320-> reduce speed to 300-> reduce speed to 270-> reduce speed to 230-> reduce speed to 200-> reduce speed to 170. After the blinking 170 its probable that you'll find a 000 (stop) but you have to know the route to be sure about what the signalling really tell you.

    The table on this page can be helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Voie-Machine
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  3. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    I caved and bought LGV yesterday (O Lord my flesh is weak). I have also had TVM doing funny things, running up and down between 230-270-300 every few seconds or so. Had me wondering what I was supposed to do, or if I had ballsed something up lol.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was referring to in the other thread. In that table a flashing 300 means to expect 300 at the next flag, not to expect 270 at the next flag. What you are describing is that a flashing 300 means to expect 270 at the next flag. I find that incomprehensible and highly unlikely.
     
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  5. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    The flashing numbers sounds like a sort of yellow signal or a flashin green (always like a yellow).
    If you run with a green 300 you can continue to run up to 300
    but like the 300 start to blink you always have to reduce your speed to 270 km/h (I only talk about Marseille-Avignon route).
    Next step could be a 270, if the 270 is not flashing you can run up to 270 km/h, but if the 270 is flashing you have to reduce the speed again until next down limit, 230 km/h starting at next block.

    The Marseille-Avignon TVM limits are 320 -> 300 -> 270 -> 230 -> 200 -> 170 (-> 160 only 1 in the tunnel before switching between TVM/LGV and KVB/traditional railway) -> 000. But usually after the flashing 170 you always find a 000 (stop at next block, before Aix en Provence and before Avignon).
     
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  6. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    When the 300 starts flashing, it’s warning you that the next marker will display 270. If when you pass the next marker, the 270 appears and is flashing, you have to expect a 230 at the next marker and so on.

    When the speed is 300, it is lit up green and remains static. At 320, when the 320 starts to flash you must reduce to 300.

    Flashing = Expect reduction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Member

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    For everyone to understand correctly :

    - Green indication means that you are allowed to speed up to the speed shown.

    - Flashing indication means that the next indication will be more restrictive to the actual one at the next marker (for example : flashing green 300 > you can run at 300, but the next marker will order you to reduce your speed)

    - White diamond indication orders you to not over-speed at the next marker (ex : white diamond 270 appears > at the next marker your speed must not exceed 270)

    - Black indication means that you must respect the speed shown and not over-speed until another indication is given to you.

    - Triple 0 orders you to stop before the next marker.

    - Triple red (I haven't seen it for the moment) orders you to not exceed 30 km/h.

    Don't forget there might some combinations (black flashing indication for example).

    Hope it helped !
     
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  8. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    yeah so according to this it is modeled wrong in the game. Because if a 320 starts to flash, you should still be allowed to do 320 at the next signal, but this is not the case in the game.
     
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  9. Nemo

    Nemo Member

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    Correct, I took a look in this video (2:56:30), after the green flashing 320, the white diamond 300 should appear, then the green 300.

     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this. I’ve been trying to figure out if it is correct in the game before deciding whether to buy the route. Initially I wasn’t going to but I was considering it. From what people were reporting it sounded like it wasn’t behaving correctly all the time. I’m going to give it a miss for now because without TVM working correctly, I can’t drive the train correctly.

    DTG have left crocodile out of it because they couldn’t get that working but it looks like they’ve released it with a not quite working TVM system too. Never mind, another DLC left on the shelf.
     
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  11. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I had one scenario where the speed was doing this (following a slow train that i never saw)
    200
    230
    200
    230
    200
    230
    200
    230

    Annoyed the heck out of me at every signal.

    The mission about engineering I run all the way to the tunnel about 6k before the power change and the brakes come on. I cannot release them and messed about with the breakers and brakes for a good ten mins before thinking sod it.

    40% of scenarios are either not clear or knackered.
     
  12. Sprinter

    Sprinter Active Member

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    I also got penalty brake during the bad things and engineering scenarios without a reason...
     
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  13. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised to hear that so many players seem to have problems with TVM. Of course, there are still some mistakes and small bugs in the current version, I never had an emergency brake or other problems with the systems.
    In the scenario "Bad Things" you constantly have a slow running train in front of you. Depending on how small the distance between you and the train in front gets TVM wants to slow you down more and more. The best strategy is to just keep a good distance and not drive the full speed allowed by TVM. I drove this scenario with ca 230km/h the most time and had a smooth run.
    Of course, signals shown by TVM are not correct but you can still get through the whole route without penalty brakes or any time lost.
    TVM has the same problem in the game as LZB still has. The technical base is correct and the cab signals are not shown correctly, but you can still drive it as in real life.
     
  14. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    If TVM is buggy or as you wrote doen't work correctly then the real LGV is buggy too :)

    I have voluntarily chosen a different LGV route. The signals and number sequences shown on the display are the same. In deceleration you always go from 300 to 270 from 270 to 230 from 230 to 200 from 200 to 170 then there is the stop. The only exception is the 160 which is always displayed in and out of the LGV, it happens in Marseille and also happens in the video section (inbound in Lyon and outbound in Nimes).

    The only difference? In the game, at a stop along the LGV, after 170 we have 000 (equivalent to a red) in the real LGV the train stops with 170 on the TVM display (equivalent to a green). To then give you the green (again 170) once the stop is over.

    This is the only difference and if you watch the video you will notice it.
    DTG can fix it in 5 minutes (if the signal is 170 and the next stop is within 5km then show the 170 instead the 000. Or again, if result is 000 then show 170).
    But the question is, can a tiny inaccuracy compromise the entire simulation gameplay? The answer is no.

    Crocodile? There are just a pair in front of Marseille train deport/garage. The point of strong of this route are the TVM-430 and the high speed managing along the "rollercaster" LGV section. Crocodile and KVB (this last one work correctly too) are good features along the traditional lines driving a traditional trains. (imo)
    Cause on this route the traditional section is very short, just 10-11km.

     
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The sequence is correct, as in it descends. What is in debate here isn’t the sequence but what is required at each step of the sequence. As is my current understanding, this is what people who have the route are reporting...

    When a number is flashing they need to slow down to the following number in the sequence by the next flag to avoid a brake application.
    In reality, they should only have to slow down to the current number, flashing or not, by the first flag. Flashing only indicates that the next number also shows a further reduction.

    I believe I understand how the system works in reality. What I am trying to find out is if it works like that in the game. People are reporting having to slow down to the next slowest speed before they have been instructed to, as in when the speed indication is showing a higher permitted speed.

    If you were designing a system you wouldn’t have a big flashing 300 that meant someone needs to slow down to 270. A big flashing 300 means you need to slow to 300 and expect a further reduction to 270, and so on. This is what I believe isn’t happening correctly in the game. Players are having to slow to 270 right from the flashing 300 within one flag.

    EDIT - I haven’t watched the video, I don’t have time at the moment.
     
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  16. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

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    I think the problem is that the HUD adjusts the 'speed limit' indication as soon as the warning TVM message appears, rather than from the next flag. I haven't had any problems with the TVM applying penalty braking (as long as I slow down within the rules), the only problem is that I get docked some 'points' for "driving over the speed limit".
     
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  17. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    In deceleration there are fixed sequences (or codes) and these will always be the same. If I have a steady 320, and I have to decelerate the system it will always give me a flashing 320. With the flashing 320 I will know that at the next block I will find a 300. Now at the next block I can have either a steady 300 (equivalent to a green signal) or a flashing 300 (equivalent to a yellow signal). If the 300 was flashing I would know that at the next block I would have a 270, so I would continue to decelerate up to 270km/h. Now, as above, if the 270 in the next block is flashing I will have to decelerate again to 230 because at the next block I know I will find a 230.

    While in speed reduction I will always have a flashing code and a descending sequence, in speed increase this will never happen (a part rare exceptions explained below). So after a steady 170 I could also find a 300 directly. This makes everything much simpler and more intuitive, because now if I had a flashing 270 and immediately after a steady 270 I know almost for sure that later I could find either a 300/320 and then I will accelerate or a flashing 270 and in this case I know that I will have to go down to 230 and then see if the next block of 230 will be fixed or flashing.

    The only uncertainty that you can have the first few times is when, very rarely, you can have continuous decelerations and accelerations (continuous speed changes). But when it happens, before a new maximum speed limit, you will always have the next flashing sequence code and then again the same but steady.

    Example: steady 270 -> flashing 270 -> (reduce the speed to 230) -> flashing 230 -> steady 230 -> flashing 270 -> steady 270 (only now you can increase the speed from 230 to 270).
    And we can continuing with, flashing 270 -> (reduce the speed to 230) -> flashing 230 -> (reduce again until 200) -> steady 200 (keep at 200) -> flashing 230 -> steady 230 -> (only now increase the speed from 200 to 230) -> flashing 270 -> steady 270 (only now you can increase again from 230 to 270) -> flashing 230 -> (reduce to 230) -> steady 230 (keep at 230), etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  18. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    I understand the concept of running behind another train lmao. I know how it works, you are being kept at a reduced speed. But the problem is not TVM's signalling behaviour, it's that TVM is emergency braking me while going a lot UNDER the signal speed. on a flashing 230 I was doing 190 and it gave me a penalty brake. That can't be correct.
     
  19. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    But that's not happen along the LGV section on Xbox (both consoles?) version. With the flashing 230 you have to reduce the speed under 200km/h before the next flag, also if the TVM is a very flexible system, and there is a crescent amount of over-speed tolerance. That if you are in deceleration. If you are driving in acceleration eg at 200km/h and you have the flashing 230 on the TVM display you can't increase the speed to 230 until (or if not) the TVM display show you a steady 230.
     
  20. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    but that's not how TVM works, if 230 is flashing you have to be going 230 at the next signal and expect a further reduction. This is a big mistake I see many people making. I am not saying that this is how it works in the game (it should tho) but this is how it works IRL
     
  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Here is some more background on TVM 300 and TVM430 - great chart in-cab display, current block speed, Speed where emergency Braking will start for each signal and what the speed should be anticipated for the next block.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Voie-Machine
     
  22. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    And what sense would it make, traveling at 200km/h, to go to 230km/h and then expect yet another speed reduction and then return to 200km/h, all within 3 or 4 km? For me it is without logic: if I travel at 200km/h I wait for the green to accelerate, the flashing 230 symbolizes a yellow, the steady 230 a green.
    So you explain us how TVM works while Dovetail which has "infinite" resources compared to a single user and everything you need to do a research and read up on TVM (even paying an SNCF instructor) according to your point of view would delivered a TVM in Dovetail key, that is a new security system invented by themselves?

    This all seems absurd, doesn't it?
     
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  23. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    As much as I don't want to side with anyone here, because I don't know the proper TVM functionality myself, I would definitely not take the "infinite" resources as a proof they've made it correctly. For example when even the door lock buttons are supposedly wrong and those are way easier than safety systems.
     
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  24. Nemo

    Nemo Member

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    Train driver is a job that requires anticipation, and that's even more true when driving a TGV (and that's what I heard a lot). :)

    I suggest you to watch some cab rides. TVM works a certain way, but the driver has to understand it correctly.

    As 7orenz said, a flashing 230 means that the next indication will be more restrictive, so there is no point to accelerate at 230, because you know you'll have to brake when passing the next marker. 230 is a speed you must not exceed, but it doesn't mean you have to run at 230 all the time !
     
  25. dark-rabbit

    dark-rabbit New Member

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  26. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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  27. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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  28. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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  29. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Interesting without doubt but im my opinion the 2 graphics above are only good to increase our confusion about the TVM :D

    If in the graphics the "controle de vitesse" over the flashing 230 from the next flag/block is 235 (so 230+5 of tolerance)
    in the same page of the link, as description for the flashing diamond 230 we have "This indication commands the driver not to exceed the speed of 230 km / h when entering the next block, a more restrictive indication will be presented at the next marker".
    +15 of tolerance = 245 :D

    On graph over the flashing diamond 230 we has the 285 and from the next block where the 230 became effective (or start) 235. In both the cases is not 230+15 of tolerance = 245 :D

    So, if I have the steady diamond at 200 (and Im at 200km/h) and TVM display change in flashing diamond 230 can I immediately increase my speed up to 230km/h or I have to wait to enter in next block and then increase up to 230km/h? (also if I already know that at the next block again I'll have a new reduction of speed cause the flashing 230...)?
     
  30. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    In the graph you have a flashing 270 meaning you can still do 270. At the next block, you get a flashing 230. That block checks you for 270+tolerance, next block will check you for 230+tolerance AND you can expect a further slowdown. The only thing wrong in the graph I think is that it should check for 245, not 235.
     
  31. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    The TVM speed is always the maximum allowed speed up until or from the next signal. So in your case you could immediately increase to 230, but it would be quite useless since a lower next speed is expected.
     
  32. Nemo

    Nemo Member

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    Those graphs do not represent the speed that the TGV must follow when decelerating, but the max speed acceptable at every marker before COVIT (Contrôle Vitesse, the system that controls your speed when TVM is active) applies emergency brakes.

    Let's see how to drive properly by study the first graph :

    - Green 320 : you can speed up until 320, and you have a margin of 15 km/h (335 km/h) before COVIT catches you up.

    - Flashing Green 320 : you can speed up to 320, but the next indication will be more restrictive (flashing). Driver decelerate to 300 by anticipation, COVIT still catches you up at 335.

    - Flashing diamond 300 : You're at 300. At the next marker, your speed must not exceed 300 (diamond), by anticipation brake to 270 to catch the next indication which will be more restrictive (flashing). COVIT still catches you up at 335 when you pass it, but just after that, the deceleration curve will start going down, so you'll have to brake quickly. After the next marker, the max speed+margin will be of 315 km/h.

    - Flashing diamond 270 : You're at 270, max speed 300, COVIT catches you up at 315. At the next marker, your speed must not exceed 270 (diamond). The next indication will be more restrictive (flashing), so by anticipation brake to 230. The deceleration curve is still going down, so brake as soon as you get the flashing diamond 270.

    - Flashing diamond 230 : You're at 230, max speed 270, COVIT catches you up at 285 (270+15). At the next marker, your speed must not exceed 230 (diamond). The next indication will be more restrictive (flashing), so by anticipation brake to 170. The deceleration curve is still going down, so brake as soon as you get the flashing diamond 230.

    (between those 2, in TSW2 there is the flashing diamond 200, but somehow it's gone on the graph..)

    - Diamond 170 : You're at 170, max speed 230, COVIT catches you up 245 (230+15). At the next marker, your speed must not exceed 170 (diamond). As this indication is not flashing, this tells you that the next indication won't order you to speed down, so there is no need to brake. Just stay under 170. The deceleration curve is still going down.

    - Black 170 : You're at 170, max speed 170, COVIT catches you up at 185 km/h (170+15). As this indication is not flashing, just maintain your speed until a different indication appears. At this point, the deceleration curve stops going down and become stable.

    - Green 320 : You're at 170, max speed 320, COVIT catches you up at 335 km/h (320+15). At this point, you can accelerate to 320. The deceleration curve goes up to 335 so don't worry about it.

    In case if it might help, here is a traduction of the different meanings of the indications :

    Green indication = xxx km/h Voie Libre = xxx km/h Clear Track
    Diamond indication = xxx km/h Annonce = xxx km/h Announce
    Black indication = xxx km/h Execution = xxx km/h Execution

    Once again, on LGV, anticipation is the priority. It's not because TVM gives you a flashing diamond 230 that you can still run at 230. Be preventive and brake to 170 !
     
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  33. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    The point is that from the videos you cannot notice what you have explained because generally those who drive the train (which is not a super sports car) do it with a large margin even considering that the services of super fast trains are not designed to always drive to the limit. . Usually the maximum limit allowed is used to make up for any delays. Another thing for which, even if right, what you say sounds strange, is that if I go at 200km / h and the TVM gives me the 230 flashing, even accelerating to the maximum I would get to the next block (where I will have to reduce again) to 210- 215km / h because the TGV will be fast but it is not a Lamborghini. So if you really know how the TVM-430 works you should contact DTG and tell them what they need to correct. The only confusing Scenario (Bad Thinghs) worked perfectly for me for the simple fact that if I see a 270, then a 300, then a 270, and they are all flashing, I stay at the last speed not flashing ( in this case to 230) and I accelerate only when the next signal (or code) is not flashing. As for links, each one reports inconsistencies (sometimes even the same link). But Dovetail, who sells a product and makes a profit, has the resources to dispel any doubts, letting himself be guided by a real TGV conductor. This is what I wrote above. And I find it absurd that they didn't.
    (Provided they haven't actually done it).
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  34. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    yeah but I don't think we are discussing here what is the proper way to drive the train, but how the safety system is incorrectly intervening while driving. And even if the other working of TVM would be correct, it still gives you an emergency brake in completely under the limit circumstances.
     
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The graph is showing how the system should work. I think the confusion is coming from somewhere else ;) that being the difference between driving well and the safety system acting incorrectly. If you drive with cautious anticipation you won’t see the safety system checking you down too soon as you will be more than that one flag ahead at all times.

    Exactly. You would normally drive with anticipation but the safety system should only intervene when you exceed the limits, and in this case the extra margins you get on top. That doesn’t appear to be happening in the game. Which is where we started in post #1
     
  36. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    The only confusion it creates concerns driving behavior. Because in the graph above, at the flashing of 170 you can still go at 235 km/h by regulation and I point out that 2 blocks ahead you have the stop at the station. And if the TVG isn't a Lamborgini when accelerating, it's not the same when braking, also considering that you often find yourself having to brake (or even stop a train) with a 3.5% gradient downhill. But I understand, this is only the rule, not the actual conduct, which will be very different (as the numerous videos also demonstrate).

    In this case DTG has to make some corrections to the TVM, because I tried several times to simulate the graph above and, starting from Avignon launched at 320 (as per TVM) as the 300 appears in the display, the maximum speed tolerated is 315 (300 +15), if I try to enter the block with a speed of even just 316, the emergency brake starts. While the graph says I can still go to 320.
     
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  37. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    So it’s clear as mud...
     
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  38. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I´m not an expert on this system but I have tested it today and it seems to work well. The behaviour is similar to LZB if you are familiar with it but TVM has a main difference: it announces the permitted speed for the block ahead of you, so starting at the next board marker (the end of you current block). LZB gives continuous braking curves so you can follow them without problems but TVM does not give a continuous braking curve supervision. Instead it drops speeds on each block. So it´s not a good idea to try to drive at max speed on the current block as you could do with LZB and try to adjust to the slower limit when inside the next one as train can´t handle that. You need to plan you speed reduction properly and start braking as soon as you receive the speed reduction announcement. Take into account that 300km/h means 80m travelled every second, so if a typical block lenght is 1500m you pass it in around 18 seconds and no train can brake that fast.

    And also take into account that line has 3.5 % downhills, which are quite agressive for a high speed line. Braking capabilities are reduced even more in those cases and you could need several km to reduce speed or come to a full stop starting from 300 km/h. High speed is not a joke. You need to master you train dynamics to drive properly. Real trains even start braking 10 km away from the final stop in some cases to achieve a confortable ride for passengers, so imagine...

    I give you an example I had today: 320 km/h on a 3.5 % downhill with full electric brake took more than 30s to retain the acceleration (not even braking, just preventing further overspeed). At the end the brake was not able to reduce speed and the emergency one was triggered. I had reached 330 km/h at that case, even using full electric brake. This means I would had run 2 blocks without being able to redunce any speed at all ;)

    So when you hear the warning and see a flashing indicator you need to prepare for an eventual reduction to 160 km/h (half of top speed) or even a stop (worse case), as reduction steps could be concatenated (this is what the flashing indicators are telling to you at the end). So start braking with 50-100% electric immediatelly when you see the first flashing and try to be always below the announced flashing limit before reaching the next block (remember that you have less than 20s to run a block at top speed). If a lower speed is given there then you are fine as you are already below the limit. Only when you see the higher speed indicator (green steady) you are sure you are in a higher speed area and you can drive at max power.

    And another very important hint: never, ever, use pheumatic brake at high speeds like a crazy horse, always the max electric brake first, as your wheels will slip which will lead to loose of all your braking capabilities (including the electric brake ones). If you need to use it start by using really small amounts and only force higher applications when below 200km/h for instance. In real life you could burn your brakes and damage the tracks as well in case of an emergency brake application using only pneumatic brakes.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  39. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    https://lesiteferroviaire.pagesperso-orange.fr/TVM 430.htm (the same link posted above with the graphs)

    From the description of every sigle code (or speed)
    under the flashing diamond with the 230 there is wrote: Like on my display I see this code I have to reduce my speed under the 230km/h (+15 of overspeed tolerance = 245) at the next block entrance, or in other words, from the next block my max permitted speed will be 230km/h (+15 of overspeed tolerance).
    For the same logical I think (or I suspect) that with the 300 on the display, from the next block I have to not pass the 300km/h (+15 of tolerance ... so not the 320 but I can run at max of 315km/h or the emergency brake will stop me)
    Max tolerance decrease to +10 from the 160km/h and below.
    Same happen if I have to increase the speed, eg. I'm at 200km/h and on my display lit up the diamond with the 230.
    In this case from the next block I can increase my speed until 230 (+15 ...) also if I have to expect for a new restrictive code starting at the next block again. If this is correct the TVM working fine.

    And again, the guy in the video plays TVM as I played it. So maybe we misread both of them.


    And this is the same route on Train Simulator.
    Deceleration from 320 to 0 at Avignon TGV station (from the minute 35:00 a step by step guide with commentary. So, now we are in three to have a different logical ;))
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  40. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem with the Bad Things scenario, or what it may lead people to confussion, is that they simulate traffic ahead of you. So the blocks just in front are being occupied and released at the same time you occupy yours. In this case you get flashing indications even while getting speed increases because, even if given speed is higher than previous one, the next block after the one you just received contains at that point a lower speed limit, because a train is occuping the following blocks. You could be facing a similar situation in other services as well if traffic is ahead.

    But that´s the principle of braking curves (continuous or semicontinuous) in modern cab signalling systems: to be able to optimize traffic so that trains can travel as close to each other but still within a safe separation. In a normal speed increase profile with track ahead of you free during several blocks you will see only steady indications and blinks occur just when approaching stops.

    What I have seen so far is that system works as you could expect according to what is described in the manual and the information available on internet about this system. Remember that flashing means that you will get another speed restriction after current one at the time the information is sent. If block occupation changes before you arrive to the next block then you can get a speed increase but still a flashing together with it. So you should be prepared for speed reductions even while you are accelerating to higher speeds.

    The best way to drive, as I said before, is to travel always below the current limit in force, not at the same speed as the limit, when you have flashing indications cause you will most likely get brake application if you get two consecutive speed reductions. Only travel at the speed limit if indications are steady. For example: with a flashing 200 drive at 170 only, as in case you get another reduction afterwards it will be a 170 limit but you will be already around that speed. If not, as soon as you get the speed update at the board you will be 30 km/h above limit and at the end you will be getting brake applications all the time. But if the next update is a steady 230 then you are safe to drive at 230 as no further reduction is expected at the block after the current one.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  41. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Whilst recording a video for YouTube I inadvertently captured the main bug I’ve now seen a couple of times on this route - a seemingly random emergency brake application. This is an unedited short video (2 minutes) and the relevant bit starts about 50 seconds in.



    I’m going to submit this as a ticket, but before I do wanted to check there’s not something obvious I’m missing. Apologies there’s no sound, Shadowplay randomly decided to not record it, but rest assured there were no warnings or vigilance devices going off at the time - you can see the twice the vigilance device does go off with the cancel key-press recorded.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2020
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  42. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    In your video your are performing fine, as at 180 you are one step below the current 230 speed limit, so if it changed to 170 you would not get a huge overspeeding and for sure n. So there´s no reason for the brakes there unless they are produced by VACMA (deadman) if you have it enabled.

    I have seen that behaviour myself at the exit from Avignon just when passing the switches that are at 0:15 on your video, so yes, it could be a bug including a sudden speed reduction followed by an increese. But what I saw was service brake application, no emergency brakes, so brakes could be released without stop just by using acknowledge and setting throttle to off. I think in my case it was a VACMA application but it should have triggered the brakes to stop and I was able to release them before... Anyway I´m still learning the train systems so I´m not sure about the reason.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  43. hightower

    hightower Guest

    If it is VACMA, then it isn’t sounding reliably. That could be the problem to be honest.

    You can see that during the brake application there is a VACMA demand which I cancel, it definitely wasn’t sounding before that point. As I do so the brakes release from fully applied to 3 bar. Prior to that though there was no Deadman's bell ringing. Each time I’ve seen this happen it’s in roughly the same place, and it happens going in both directions.
     
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  44. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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  45. mokady

    mokady Member

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    This route has same bugs as the old one.
    I got very low res inside cab and every 30 sec there is freeze (it may last few milisec but still it is noticible). Of course other routes are fine.

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2332348893

    Especially this low resolution inside cab is driving me crazy because I cant read what target speed I set without using HUD (not to mention it looks like s...t)

    Today I also run into next problem: "passed danger signal" when I didnt pass anything when playing timetable.

    How this game is tested before release is beyond me. Every DLC is the same, countless bugs and errors. I needed 1 hour to spot almost all problems that other people have but they didnt? They do this on purpose, thats for sure.
     
  46. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I´m pretty sure the low res issue is related to texture streamming. It didn´t work well since game release as it turns many textures blurry. I decided to disable adding r.TextureStreaming=0 to engine.ini, but this will increase your system workload and the initial loading times of services/scenarios until whole scene is processed.

    The freeze is caused by tile loading. Take into account that every 30 secs you are running around 2.5 km at max speed, so tiles are updated much faster than in other routes. There´s no solution to avoid it unless you reduce visual settings (and that does not even solve the issue). It´s a game limitation so far.

    Cheers
     
  47. hightower

    hightower Guest

    The only other option is to get a decent speed SSD. There really is no other option I’m afraid. The good news is there are shortly to be some sales....
     
  48. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    If for signal you mean flag or block you are right, because a new code on TVM display is like a sort of signal along a "classic" railway. Every new code (in the case of TGV on dispay instead along the railway) tell us the max permitted speed starting from the next flag. 230 on display when we are on flag "A", from flag "B" (or nex block) our max permitted speed will be 230km/h (+15 of overspeed tolerance).

    It is exactly what happen not only on LGV but also in every other railway with the only difference that on LGV (or with the TVM) the next prermitted speed it will showed directly on our display instead of alongside the route. Every code or signal will start (or became effective) from the next block or flag.

    So, if on your TVM display there is the 300, from the next flag (or railway block) your max permtted speed will become 300km/h (+15 of overspeed tolerance). If you entering on next block at 316+ (or maybe also from 315.1km/h or above) the emergency brakes it will reduce your speed.

    And this is also like the TVM works on Train Simulator and Train Sim World.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  49. mokady

    mokady Member

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    Thanks, it helped but as you said, game now have longer load times but I dont really care that much.

    There are even more things that are broken:

    One of the scenarios in which You drive to the main city and back (60 minutes), when You go back and hit voltage change point (DC to AC), it wont let you rearm circuit breaker.....
    I checked other services that require DC to AC change and they work fine.

    If we compare TSW2 route to old route in Train Simulator than it is even less detailed if we speak about infrastructure: No overhead catenary compensation, no voltage drop when you pass neutral sections. These small details are what makes "true" simulation.
     
  50. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Be careful with that. As soon as you receive it the speed limit is in force for the current block you are already entering and you only get new speed limits at each new block border, not inside blocks. So as soon as train head passes a board a speed limit is sent and it´s in force therefore for that block you are entering and will not be updated untill you reach the next board, which is the end of your current block and the beginning of the next one.

    Activate the HUD speedometer and you will see how permitted speed is being updated if you have doubts. If speedometer corona is yellow you are above the limit currently in force for train. Don´t get confused with this system. It´s not working like LZB, where speed restriction is ahead of you and you approach to it. It works like the LIRR route protection system, where speed restriction is given for the block you are entering to.

    What system does to announce speed reductions is to use the blinking indications. So, if you travel at 320km/h with a steady 320 indication you will get a flashing 320 first and then another reduction (typically a 300). The first blinking 320 indication tells you that the limit in force for the current block is 320 but at the next board you will get a speed reduction below the currently displayed value (below 320 in this case), so you need to use the block you are to reduce speed indeed, in preparation for the next reduction (the 300 that you will get). Never do it when you see a new updated value or you will overspeeding all the time. Always do it before and be prepared to further reductions until steady values are displayed. With steady ones you are sure that either limits will be maintained or raised at least during your block and the next one. With blinking they will continue to be reduced and reach a eventual stop even.

    This is the sequence for a speed reduction from 300 to 270. Notice the speed limits in the HUD speedometer. First we start with steady 300 so this is the limit for the block we are, and as it´s steady it won´t change at least during the next block too.

    01.png

    After some blocks we get a flashing 300, meaning that at the block we are the speed limit is still 300, but at the block after it it will be reduced. Here the limit is still 300 but we should start reducing speed in preparation for a 270.

    02.png

    Then we get a blinking 270 at the end of our block, and there is where the speed limit changes for the first time and is reduced to 270. It´s also blinking so further speed reductions are expected. If 270 was steady then we could keep that speed. As we didn´t reduce in time as soon as we got the flashing 300 we enter that block at 281, so 11km/h above the allowed speed for that block. If we continue to overspeed systematically then the brake applications will appear sooner or later.

    03.png

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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