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Ue 4.26 Distance Field Shadows Feature

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    i very like epic
     
  2. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Free beta testers :).
     
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  3. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    If we install the epic version to try it, will the game saves overwrite our existing steam version in the Documents folder though?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  4. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    No, it is a totally separate entity to steam.
     
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Its a game engine, and they're always "progressing" so technical demo? Maybe as a generational thing, but it's a full version rather than demo
     
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  6. BladesAndRazors

    BladesAndRazors Member

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    Maybe the license for 4.26 states the game must be released in the EGS.
    I hope the epic release improves the cooperation between UE Devs and dtg Devs immensely so we can benefit all from it.
     
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  7. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not baked into textures at all. Read my post way above about it. If we keep the term "baked" then it is baked into the mesh itself. But in reality it is a set of pure data values, not visual information. The visual result is generated at runtime and that is why it of course needs some computation power (it is low but not zero). The data itself needs the space it memory. Its a sort of point cloud and quite dense so it uses up to 30MB (maybe more if you have huge meshes) of RAM for each idividual mesh additionally. Lets say you have 1000 distinct meshes (not instances of it) visible at once (what is easy possible with a train sim), you need up to 30GB of extra RAM. Take a look onto the specs of the lower end consoles and you can see that this is impossible to do as they only have about 3gig of shared RAM for the whole game. A typical mesh does not need 30MB for RDFS data, but more about 2-5MB, but even then, it is to much for those low end consoles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Maik Goltz Once again, thanks for the useful insight as to how it works.

    We haven’t really seen the full effects of it yet, but would you say it makes a significant visual improvement over what we have now in regards to shadows in the distance? Specially hilly/mountainous areas?
     
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  9. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That depends on the assets at least. And i don*t know yet if only RDFS is used or also the more visual effective RDFAO. Both together can deliver quite nice results if all is set up correctly. I'm afraid yet that TSW is unsing the AO part because it uses alot of computing power on top. RDFS alon is mostly visible ine the near by area and not far away as it mainly affects the shaddows thrwon onto the terrain and not self shadowing (AO). I may have a look later to figure out what is actually used. But tbh, i wouldn't expect much of an improvement for older routes yet. The whole asset pool and also some material settings need to be changed for that stuff to look better.
     
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  10. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Apologies if I’m missing something here but you say the PS4, which I believe has 8GB of RAM, can’t handle DFS but the recommended PC specs are 8GB of RAM and those machines can? I’m not understanding that.
     
  11. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    A PC works different. It basically has two memory areas. The RAM and the VRAM. The AMD based APU Consoles have only one fast memory where it stores all data into. So a 8gig PC does have the addtional 4-x gig of VRAM what consoles dont have.
     
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  12. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    No they will not - they will be in separate folders. I do wonder what might happen with the log on Dovetail Live though. Probably no worse than a fresh install and it copes with that.

    Thanks for explaining it in such detail, its really helpful. They did say on stream that lower end consoles won't be getting DFS that it was only for PC's and higher end consoles.

    Paul
     
  13. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Is DFS working in the current EGS build? I've done some side-by-side comparisons (particularly in the early morning) and the shadows draw identically.

    Cheers
     
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  14. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure to be honest... it looks a lot like my usual - noting that my usual as a tweaked engine.ini for draw distance and I've not touched this for the 4.26/epic version.
     
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Not the most inspiring thing to hear. Perhaps the DFS function didn't make it to this build for whatever reason?
     
  16. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    You can't just switch on RDFS/RDFAO and all looks better with push of a button. There is a bit more work to do. The old routes seem not to got that work yet. With work i mean heavily proccessing all meshes of the route (generating the distance fiel data). No idea how long it would take for a complete route, but believe me, it takes quite a while and even then it means not, that it works fine. I would expect the new RushHour routes will have it, but the old ones need that work before.
     
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  17. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    So basically a task for the Preserved Crew.
     
  18. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    My expectations are low.

    Cheers
     
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  19. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    They are definitely different - these are both service X791 on SPG with default time of year and the only setting is clouds turned up to max on both.
    The first shot is the EPG 4.26 version is noticeably darker and seems more full in terms of distant trees.
    epg-spg.jpg

    The second shot is the Steam 4.23 version which is lighter and more skeleton like on the foliage.
    stm-spg.jpg

    Note I have LOD draw distance cranked right up in the Steam version and default on EPG version.

    Paul
     
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  20. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I do see some difference but it's difficult to draw comparisons when the trees in the 4.23 version are barren of leaves. I think you may have a certain mod installed. :)

    Cheers
     
  21. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That is highly likely... let me kill all the mods - I'll take out the engine.ini changes too and give it another shot. Well spotted sir!

    Paul
     
  22. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Ugh I forgot how ugly it was without mods and engine.ini tweaks...
    This first shot is Steam/4.23 SPG with no funny business.
    stm-spg-no-mods-no-engine.jpg

    The second shot is the same spot albeit a slightly different angle from EPG 4.26 version - definitely darker and more lush in the forest.
    epg-spg.jpg
     
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  23. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Paul. These results are greater than what I experienced with my own testing, but to be fair I tested using my custom Engine.ini on both versions which likely skewed the results. Upon further inspection I can see the DFS improvements, though at the moment it appears more like ambient occlusion than full casted shadows. Regardless, it is an improvement.

    Absolutely. Here's a side-by-side comparison between vanilla and my Engine.ini and it makes me empathise even greater with our console comrades.

    Vanilla:
    upload_2021-7-30_1-40-24.png

    Custom:
    upload_2021-7-30_1-40-42.png

    Cheers
     
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  24. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason I won't live in a walled garden. Others make other choices and that is ok. Keeping a hungry gaming computer fed can be expensive, but oh the freedom to fiddle!

    Paul
     
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  25. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    As I noticed from the stream, you can clearly see a difference in greenery. It looks like denser foliage which looks a little more 'real'.

    That tweaked ini makes a big difference Paul. I'll have to have a 'fiddle' myself ;)
    Thanks for the screenshots.
     
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  26. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, those shots show definitely the activated RDFS AND RDFAO on the 4.26 version. That's good to see. Looks way better with just a tiny bit of performance impact it generates (at least at lower spec machines only).
     
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  27. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I like how dark the trees and terrain look now. It really makes it ‘feel’ a lot more dense and blank spots aren’t so obvious to see now.
     
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  28. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Currently I'm not running any engine.ini tweaks on the 4.26 EPG version. There are certainly some things that could be tweaked (LOD draw distance for example - I hate popping things) but all the other tweaks I run are designed either for distant things to look nice or for better performance and the 4.26 version is buttery smooth so far and performs really well. Some people seem to have got even more with DX12 but I tried and got no visual improvement and FPS was different but in the same ballpark.

    I'm liking the way it looks too londonmidland - I'm still looking forward to 4.26 mods coming out for horns, signal bloom, and of course the 1970ififcation of GWE for Diesel Legends.

    The general performance improvement Maik Goltz has probably offset the small performance loss of having the better shadows. Overall I've found it to be running with better framerates and nice and smooth. There's less noticeable tile load and when you're sitting still with a train passing your camera its nice and smooth.

    Paul
     
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  29. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    4.26 EPG no set engine.ini very bad
     
  30. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure if this is related to DFS but does this feature make areas look darker? For example, if you are surrounded by trees and bushes both sides of your train, will it adjust the lighting appropriately for that area?
     
  31. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    No, this it not what it supposed to do. As the name says, 'distance", it acts in a distance from the player and further, not near by. For the near by there is the normal shadowing and AO and whatever is used.
     
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  32. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    On SPG it is overall darker, I don't think this is the shadow feature, I just think its darker. At 12pm (lunch time) its still quite dark on SPG. This doesn't happen when on Bakerloo or Schnellfarstreken Koln. They're nicely lit in daylight like you would expect.

    Paul
     
  33. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean you cannot find the engine.ini on the EPG version? I found it here:
    C:\Users\paulp\Documents\My Games\TrainSimWorld2EGS\Saved\Config\WindowsNoEditor\engine.ini
     
  34. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    When I edited this file, I didn't notice any changes in-game. I had to edit the Engine.ini under \Windows\ to see any changes reflected, though this could have a been a fluke.

    Cheers
     
  35. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I just tried and found my changes seem to have an effect using that file. Interesting you found different. They seemed to have their usual effect, the passenger density scale being the most notable. I actually think I could live without the others apart from passenger density as the new shadows seem to make the distance "good enough". My settings did drop FPS by about 5 (down to 71) without much noticeable benefit.

    I put in
    [SystemSettings]
    r.ViewDistanceScale=3
    r.StaticMeshLODDistanceScale=0.25
    r.LandscapeLOD0DistributionScale=4
    foliage.LODDistanceScale=4
    r.Shadow.DistanceScale=2
    r.Shadow.TransitionScale=2
    r.Shadow.CSM.TransitionScale=2
    ts2.passenger.DensityScale=4
     
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  36. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    me steam 4.26 engine ini set AA 16X SLI SSA 16X SLI
    [SystemSettings]
    r.ViewDistanceScale=1
    r.StaticMeshLODDistanceScale=0.5
    foliage.LODDistanceScale=SET 5 FPS -20
    r.SkeletalMeshLODBias=-5
    r.MaterialQualityLevel=0
    r.SSR.Quality=2
    r.HighQualityLightMaps=1
    r.PostProcessAAQuality=6
    r.MaxAnisotropy=16
    r.MotionBlurQuality=0
    r.TemporalAACatmullRom=1
    r.TemporalAASharpness=1.0
    r.TemporalAASamples=64
    r.TemporalAAFilterSize=1.0
    r.TemporalAAPauseCorrect=1
    r.TextureStreaming=0
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  37. Rage607

    Rage607 Member

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    One unit of demand for X1X from me :D
     
  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Maik Goltz Another question - does this work on trains too? Particularly long consists.

    More than often the train can look like it’s in a totally different scene as the lighting doesn’t match the world lighting. In many cases it looks too bright, and shadows aren’t casted, making it look flat.
     
  39. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not working on moving/skeletal meshes.
     
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  40. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Member

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    doesnt suppouse that all the trees have baked shadows with this new shadow system?

    [​IMG]
    My engine.ini
    Code:
    r.BloomQuality=3
    r.MaxAnisotropy=16
    r.SceneColorFringe.Max=0
    r.SceneColorFringeQuality=0
    r.Tonemapper.Quality=0
    r.DefaultFeature.MotionBlur=0
    r.DepthOfFieldQuality=0
    r.MotionBlurQuality=0
    r.EyeAdaptationQuality=1
    r.MipMapLodBias=-2
    foliage.DensityScale=0.6
    grass.densityScale=1.0
    foliage.DitheredLOD=5
    r.Shadow.CSM.MaxCascades=10
    r.Shadow.CSM.TransitionScale=2
    r.Shadow.DistanceScale=3.0
    sg.ShadowQuality=4
    r.ShadowQuality=4
    r.Shadow.FilterMethod=1
    r.Shadow.MaxCSMResolution=1024
    r.Shadow.MaxResolution=2048
    r.StaticMeshLODDistanceScale=0.70
    r.TemporalAASamples=64
    r.TemporalAACatmullRom=1
    r.TemporalAAFilterSize=1.0
    r.TemporalAAPauseCorrect=1
    r.PostProcessAAQuality=6
    r.HighQualityLightMaps=1
    r.ViewDistanceScale=1
    r.SSRQuality=3
    r.DefaultFeature.AutoExposure.ExtendDefaultLuminaceRange=1
    r.SkylightIntensityMultiplier=0.5
    r.Color.Max=1.2
    r.Color.Mid=0.8
    r.LightMaxDrawDistanceScale=30.0
    r.fov=95
    ts2.fov=95
    for me looks exactly the same as 4.23 ( the screenshots is steam and TSW2 4.26 )
     
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  41. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Some of these engine.ini’s being posted here are crazy.

    90% of the commands don’t actually do anything at all, and on 4.26 nearly all of the ones that did work before are no longer necessary. In many instances you could actually be making the game look worse than it should.

    re The shadows, they are certainly better on Boston. However, If these are pre-rendered during cooking with virtually no performance impact why are they not drawing all the way to the horizon? If it’s a RAM thing can we not at least have the option? Also, am I right in saying DFS are inherent to 4.26 and was applied when each route was cooked, so all routes, including preserved, should benefit from it? If so, in certain lighting there seems to be no difference on ECW (the only non-RH route I’ve tried) to how it always was. The shadows are literally drawing right in front of the train.

    Unfortunately tunnels, and the trains themselves are still completely whacky with the lighting. As noted the track shadowing still looks poor…hopefully DTG can figure this out soon. Additionally, the grass draw distance is still way too close to the train. Having that pop up right in front of you on a high-end PC is really dispiriting. If only there were a .ini command for that one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  42. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    It seems that it doesn’t work even on series x, same issues as before that it loading for the train first, or when you walked around
     
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  43. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting when people figure out what the good ones are, but I agree a new set is needed.
     
  44. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    FWIW I have two. The sky brightness (as posted by LM) at 0.5 and the foliageLOD distance at 4. I can’t see where anything else is needed…
     
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  45. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I noticed this on ECW. The grass was growing out of ground as I drove up to it
     
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  46. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I could have sworn I heard someone say on a stream that post update DFS would be enabled across all the preserved routes.

    I must be mistaken because there is absolutely no way the shadows on ECW are the same as on Boston. The difference is now all the more obvious and it makes playing these old routes even harder to stomach.
     
  47. TRAXX-Driver

    TRAXX-Driver Member

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    Yes, unfortunatley I can't also see any difference regarding distant shadows after the update. For me it's one of the most annoying things in TSW and it has a huge impact on immersion, especially when driving during sunset or dawn. I was hoping for an improvement but nothing noticeable happened.
     
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  48. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    I would say it is simply not applied to the preserved routes yet. This is a quite huge task to do, and may cause problems that need to be resolved then too. As i said earlier, you can't just switch on RDF and give it a go for all existing content without extra work.
     
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  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Well Ruhr Seig Nord I think looks much nicer now, whereas before the shadow draw distance was too short and made it look really bad at times. I think the fog (due to my weather settings I assume) helps too.
    TSW2_Cameron_1629639028_00.png
    TSW2_Cameron_1629639002_00.png
    Sadly I don't have any 4.23 shots as I never played RSN then, but the shadows were noticably shorter I think.
     
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  50. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Looks more like realtime shadow rather than RDFS to me. Did you cranked up the render distance in the engine.ini maybe? If not, then this is definitely RDFS. But seems not being applied to all routes yet.
     
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