[unofficial Route] - Part Of The West Highland Line

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Will, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. Will

    Will Active Member

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    The first unofficial route to be made for TSW2 using a dev version of the unofficial editor. It is currently planned to be a small section of the West Highland Line between 'Upper Tyndrum' and 'Bridge of Orchy'.
    [​IMG]
    This screenshot was taken not far from Upper Tyndrum
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
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  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the unofficial editor allowed for custom routes? Is the whole track laying, signalling and scenery custom made?
     
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  3. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Its our dev build so far, the released unofficial editor cant do that yet. Signal system is not ready yet, but basic track laying system is so far done. Scenery is easy as its normal UE4 feature which you can do even without unofficial editor.
     
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  4. Will

    Will Active Member

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    At the moment the release version of the unofficial editor does not allow for building routes and won't do for a while. I made this route partly to test the track laying tools while in the process of writing them.

    The scenery assets are referenced from Bakerloo and the West Somerset Railway. I do aim to add some custom ones for stations and key parts, however I'm still in the process of learning to use Blender.
     
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  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Damn. Can't believe we got to the point where we can actually have a route editor for the community. It's so amazing.

    Please post more screenshots if you can, would really love to see what you guys could create with it!
     
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  6. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    If you check Unofficial Editor thread there is already some screenshots even from editing locos
     
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  7. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    That is simply awesome, great work! It's amazing that the community managed to accomplish all of this. Congratulations, I can't wait to play your routes once I get a PC :D
     
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  8. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    So if it's feasible to produce an unofficial route editor (eventually) then it kind of diminishes DTG's argument for not providing an official one!

    As regards where the route is, hard to say. It looks like single track with a Class 66 so a rural route which has some freight traffic, possibly. Not hilly enough for the West Highland though portions of the Highland Main Line do have flatter sections around Kingussie, etc. as they pass through a Strath.
     
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  9. Will

    Will Active Member

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    Good guess, Due to the fog it looks quite flat. However, there are some signs of a hill/mountain through the bridge so there is still a chance it's a hilly route ;)
     
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  10. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail: Nah making route is impossible
    Will: Hold My Bear

    Will, you have my Respect. I can't wait to see the Finished Version! Will it be released to the public?
     
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  11. Will

    Will Active Member

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    Thanks. Yes, It'll be released publicly just it may be a while before it's fully complete and ready to be released
     
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  12. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Once its done of course it will be released to the public and even for free (just not for consoles). The same for the Unofficial Editor... once the track system is more user friendly then it will be part of the Unofficial Editor too so you will be able to make your own routes. Right now its still in heavy development and it can take a while until we reach the point to add that feature into the Unofficial Editor.
     
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  13. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Will there be a Preview Stream like the Official Dovetail Route?

    Also, thought this would fit: (P.S, its a hint to the route i want to build)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  14. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Finally, my dream of building better routes will come true! Will we be able to edit existing Dovetail/Rivet/Skyhook Routes or not? Given that the official editor that was cancelled was not going to have this at launch, I am guessing no
     
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  15. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    The whole route system is very complicated... all cooked stuff lost a lot of information. As far i can say for now its impossible to edit existing routes, its possible to add extra scenery into the existing routes with unofficial editor right now... every umap file which you place into the tiles folder of extracted route is loaded into the game. Thats how was those PIS mods made...

    But you know... never say never... we might be able to figure out how to edit and save already existing routes too... its not our target for now.
     
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  16. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Thats a Shame. If it is at any point possible, I know what I will do:

    Merge East Coastway with BML, extend to hastings, build the Whatever to Lewes Line, and make a better timetable.

    Speaking of which, will we be able to make custom timetable mode timetables, or is it Scenario Planner Only when it releases?
     
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  17. Will

    Will Active Member

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    I wouldn't say impossible just a lot of work to get working and so as trainsimcz said its not our target for now.

    The route is already using a custom timetable and the screenshot was taken while driving a service in the timetable. In terms of the editor custom timetables will be possible and the timetable editor will probably release before the track laying system.
     
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  18. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Why is that?

    Cheers
     
  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    If DTG's reason behind not releasing an official editor was for anything other than just making sure it had a good enough UI/was simple enough to use, the fact an unofficial editor exists makes almost any other argument against an official editor useless, since we now have the tool anyway, and if they thought there were going to be any kind of consequence to the playerbase having the ability to create routes, it's useless now.

    If anything by not making it official they just risk winding console players up, as soon as people realise their favourite route is free and PC only, I am assuming they won't be too happy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  20. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Sure, if that was their ultimate reason. But it was not.

    Cheers
     
  21. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    you know ive been looking for a reason to get a Gaming PC, now i have it
     
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  22. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    To build a route ?
     
  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    That’s brilliant work. Who will get to east Coast mainline first :D
     
  24. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe do an international route Appenweier-Strasbourg Railway towards Karlsruhe and Frankfurt Am Main via Mannheim Hbf. Who would get there first between Community or DTG. My suggestion Appenweier-Strasbourg Railway was made for Sister game train simulator 22 as Strasbourg to Karlsruhe.
     
  25. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    Wow,v well done guys. Looking forward to more screenshots!
     
  26. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    This is huge news and a big moment for TSW 2. Well done to all who are putting in the effort to make this a more pleasurable game & thank you for your hard work.
     
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  27. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Im Guessing this is Edinburgh to Glasgow. I appreciate why DTG don’t want to release a editor but I guess with some recent third party releases people are fed up with the “on to the next one approach”
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    From what I can recall their main sticking point was the licensing of UE4, which I assume will not be an issue with the community editor. I believe they also indicated re the likely difficulty curve, among other things. With my cynics hat, they also want to remain firmly in control of content production - imagine if someone else produced a superior freeware West Cornwall and hosted at ATS or UKTS!

    There are nevertheless a few issues around the unofficial/community editor. At some point it is probably going to need the agreement of DTG going forward so that any routes produced can be properly integrated in the game. What sort of DEM data/mapping/trackplan overlay will it support? How do we get our own 3D models in there without having to buy expensive 3D modelling and paint programmes?

    Personally I would just be happy to get a few expanded model or miniature railway plans (upscaled to full size) in the game and hopefully this is a step in that direction.
     
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  29. Will

    Will Active Member

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    I have just updated the tile and first post in the thread with what the route is. It is a small section of the West Highland Line between Upper Tyndrum and Bridge of Orchy. I picked this section as it is reasonably short as I am still working on building the track tools and know the area reasonably well.
     
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  30. Will

    Will Active Member

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    If it any point I discover DTG don't like the community editor or the fact I'm creating a route, I will stop as I don't want to cause trouble.

    UE4 has made it hard to add in DEM data as it will only import '.png' files for terrain. However, I do aim to add a slightly easier method similar to how TS1 would do it in the future. I have began work on a map overlay and have had this somewhat working with both Google Maps and Bing Maps. I discovered Bing Maps uses a slightly higher resolution for satellite images in the UK.

    No expensive 3D modelling or paint programs have been needed so far, Unreal supports importing of .fbx files as standard. Most 3D modelling software including Blender can export to this format.
     
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  31. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    There is no licensing issue with UE4... UE4 is free, open for everybody and many games got editor released. DTG just decide to not release it because of they stupid "all platforms will have the same" politic, so if consoles cant have editor then PC users will not have it too. Thats why we start working on Unofficial one.

    For your second part... there is no agreement needed to adding route into the game... every DLC is just a plugin and can be integrated into the game without DTG. The route can include own models but can even use already existing models (final pak will not include DTGs model, they are just linked to the specific DLCs so if you dont own some of the DLC your map will be for example empty. Thats how it works.
     
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  32. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I believe their reasoning for not releasing an editor was because it would be difficult to control the flow of content with it, as one could just re-export their bought DLC and put it up for download for free.

    I kind of understand, but I'm pretty sure there could be a solution for that somehow. And I mean you can't stop pirates anyway, so I don't see the point. Those who want the game for free will get it anyway.

    I really hope DTG will not have issues with this community editor, as it would be a quite shame. And imagine the drama if something would happen. Hopefully community made stuff will be able to coexsist peacefully with official content, just like it did in TS.
     
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  33. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It was also mentioned it was because they wanted to be squeaky clean with licenses for operators if I recollect
     
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    My guess was correct then… Excellent!
     
  35. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's as simple as that. UE is free to use - anyone can download it - from Unreal. But DTG have modified it and added in their own specific tools and to release those tools would involve them also distributing parts of the UE editor, which they're not allowed to do.

    As a console player, it's a bit of a weird situation. I know that most of the people who say they want to produce content will be tinkering in their spare time and not coming up with anything of a real commercial value. I'm entirely happy not to get access that any of that. Those people who are building new routes that are genuinely bigger and better than DTG or Rivet or anyone else are doing should just get in touch with DTG and become a proper third party - it may involve a bit more to-ing and fro-ing, but you'll have DTG support, access to the official editing tools and be able to reach a much better audience across more platforms (and actually make some money). If you have the skills to do a proper job of it, why are you settling for bodging it all together unofficially?
     
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  36. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Their editor not suppose to let you edit already cooked existing content so you cant really unpack and repack the route with their editor and release it for free - it was really for creating new content for the game. For that repacking nothing is stopping you do that even without the editor as right now you can extract and repack the route... or any DLC with original epic tool UnrealPak and i dont see any DLC like that released for free. If you create stuff in the editor and add some already existing content into your route, that content on the map is only virtual link to original DLC... so if somebody else dont have that content (DLC) they will not see it... they will see only original included content with the route... the rest will require to own some DLCs.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Which is pretty much how the TS editor works. You select a provider and product which then allows you to place it in your own route, but it is only referenced so requires any end recipient of your work to own the DLC. Not a bad deal for the payware providers, though some like Thomson don’t see it that way and lock their content down. Shoot themselves in the foot as it might lead to people buying content they wouldn’t have otherwise purchased.
     
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  38. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    DTG included SpeedTree, World Machine and maybe some other plugins... but again all those plugins are not distributed with license for end users... Plugins are free, they can distribute them but if end user will wants to use those plugins then end user will need to buy a license for that. There is no licensing issue like that... you can use their editor even without those plugins (World Machine is for generating landscape - there is even some free tools for that, Speed Tree is for the trees - again you can use some free tool for that).

    For that second part - what do you think about become a third party ? Many users already tried couple of times (even me) join their partner program but it looks like person who is responsible for that program dont have reply button in his email client... - got removed, or its very difficult for him to find it. So what community suppose to do if we are ignored ? Thats the only way how to bring community some proper tool to create content for the game if DTG is ignoring us.
     
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  39. ffabio89

    ffabio89 Member

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    Yes, I can confirm that. For two times...

    And this editor will be a very good news for who like building a route!

    Only one question: if I build myself anything for example track, gantry, signals, industry, trees and more; but I use the consist made by DTG (for example that one including with DRA): without the DLC it possible to see the trains in game or not?
    Just to know if it's the same as object or not....
     
  40. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the update you said the non dtg routes by yourself will be free for PC, does this mean you are looking at chargeable model for getting it to console? (I would be happy to pay for new content from people who care this much, keep up the good work)
     
  41. Will

    Will Active Member

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    If I could get it working on console I would and release it free but consoles are very hard to mod.
     
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  42. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

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    Incredible work! Huge respect to get this one going even with all the limitations given by Dtg when it comes to modding.

    Now imagine if Dtg wouldnt be such greedy ***** and would give us proper modding tools. Who would ever buy any of their rushed maps if we could get proper ones from true train enthustiasts lol
     
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  43. Will

    Will Active Member

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    You could make a route with all your own assets but if you reference a formation from a DLC that DLC will be needed to play the timetable unless it's setup as a timetable layer
     
  44. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Exactly which is why they're still building stuff for TS1.
     
  45. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Without consoles SDK its impossible so expect that this is not going to be released on consoles like any other routes made by that Unofficial Editor. Of course DTG can still change their strategy and give as their editor where they can control the content but i dont see that coming.
    For consoles it require to own Console DevKit version, it require to be part of the Microsoft and Sony program.
     
  46. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    You'd still need to release it through DTG for it to be associated with TSW2 on the PSN/Xbox stores. They've already said that none of the third parties have (or at least need) console dev kits to be on their programme.

    I guess if this were to become a thing, it would need to be like Giants do it with Farming Sim, where you can create mods freely on PC and if you submit them through the official mod hub, they have the option to push the best ones out to consoles.

    I don't think it was plugins. Matt specifically said that they'd modified core behaviours of the UE editor for their own needs. Distributing any modified version of the editor would be contrary to its basic EULA.
     
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  47. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Well for that part DTG should give us their proper tool, dont see the reason to release the route with our tool and give it to DTG so they can release it for consoles. And for PC we are not really limited about scenery and other stuff around.

    Modded editor is no problem to distribute, many other games did it and there is no problems. SpeedTree is part of the UE4 anyway, so its just a plugin - for using it you need to have SpeedTree license. About that World Machine, if they integrate it into the UE4 the user still need own the program as their editor is calling that .exe file only and not the whole software and then user still need license for that program so again its safe to distribute that. Dont get me wrong but only reason where they can cry about license is if somebody create licensed loco... but its user content stuff, nobody care about it in TSXXXX, nobody care about it in Trainz and any other simulators, only DTG got problems with that in TSW which is funny.
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From this comment I presume you don't lock your car, or your front door... If people want to break in and nick your stuff they will anyway, no?

    Personally I'm waiting for the "real life vs modded content creator shots" to see if the community will rip them apart like they do DTG stuff. I'm betting it won't happen though
     
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  49. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Let's say, I really want to help this project in the way of building 3D models for Assets (like for example a signal box), but I have no experience at all with UE4. Where would you say is the best place to start learning how to build 3D models?
     
  50. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Oh no... there are some free trains for TS which are equal, if not better than many DTG TSW offerings... I'm talking BR101 level, I could give you some examples, they are italian machines though. Here you also have the option to start completely cold and dark as well.

    E464 v4
    https://worcestergeorge.altervista.org/dlc

    E646, E636 and E626
    http://www.rotabili-italiani.org/sito/loco-elettriche---elettrotreni.html

    Never underestimate the community and what they can do for free.

    Also nothing stops them selling payware, setting up a site isn't that hard, neither are transactions using PayPal, there are dozens of sites for payware 3rd party on TS.

    The people can and will create something that is equal or better than DTG. Maybe not trains until we have access to simugraph, but surely routes are going to be good, especially given how many people are experienced with other similar tools.

    We are going to miss out on A LOT of very high quality content on consoles, as we already are for Microsoft Flight Sim.

    About becoming a 3rd party... it's not as easy as you think, and by being indipendent, and giving away these things for free or for a lower price you might avoid all the flack about a bad product, and if you are doing freeware, you don't care about how many people download your stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021

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