Update For West Cornwall Local?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by AirbourneAlex, Apr 19, 2022.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The radio silence from Rivet Games has been absolutely shocking. Clearly they have put their heads in the sand and are sweeping all the issues under the carpet.

    Disgraceful attitude and no way to treat your loyal customers. They soon won’t have any if they continue to carry on like this.
     
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  2. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    rivet should have been updated luzern and wc already...what they took so long ?
     
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  3. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think this is more accurate amend of your statement reflective of the operating model
     
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  4. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    We are not debating whether there is or isn’t any news about it. We are saying why hadn’t there been any fixes?

    We are all utterly disgusted with the lack of updates, improvements, fixes that should have been done before the product was even released let alone 6 months later with still no sign of an accurate ‘true to life; 150/2 as they so claim. It is unbelievable that a unit with 286hp accelerates in notch 1 at 75mph. It interlocks the power in brake step one and accelerates way too quickly, There are many sound features missing or incorrect, the two second torque converter filling with fluid delay before pulling away is missing, this has all been sent to them numerous times but has not been corrected. BASIC fundamental errors !!!

    I will not use it in the game and if I could get a refund for it I would but time has passed. Certainly will not be spending any more money on rivet stuff until they get their act together and sort their mess out.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  5. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    There are many missing or incorrect features in this product, that it is disgraceful it was ever released!!!

    Well said ghawk2005, I too will not use it in the game and would also would have requested a refund. I also won’t be buying another route from Rivet unless it is heavily discounted.

    l have previously complained to Rivet after it’s release but it fell on deaf ears!!! I would have thought that this route would have been improved by now.
     
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  6. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Only/last thing I own of theirs
     
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  7. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Some people never learn, but I see some of you are having an eye-opening realization...
     
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  8. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    There's a slogan , "sold as seen ". Even though there are preview streams I think they operate the "it's too late, it's sold now you've seen"

    A year to fix arosa , in regards to this route they've shown they're more focused on laying more dirt on the floor (luzern,Glasgow (hiding back with the train simulator buyers)) rather than doing what DTG are now doing and tidying up their mess on the floor
     
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  9. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I understand the frustration of the wcl buyers. Still in my opinion there is nothing wrong with cathcart and luzern. In fact i wish both of them will get extensions and loco addons.

    In general i hope rivet sticks with dtgs improvements, and with luzern sursee they actually did. (Pis).
     
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  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    The first post of this thread asks if there was going to be an update to WCL because the OP had noticed the menu icon being different in a stream - that's what JD was replying to:
     
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  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The thing I don't get is why aren't DTG poking Rivet to provide an update regarding this? Surely this also damages TSW's reputation, even though its not 'their' problem.
     
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  12. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t understand this either. It isn’t as if we are being super super critical like saying the light bulb is a centimetre too high. This is seriously important and major errors in the model and not just one or two either. It is a serious failure in my opinion. SURELY DTG have played with Armstrong Powerhouse’s 150/2 for Pete sake…..they of course should know how the unit should drive and sound. It’s just beyond me! I know if they were my associate / employee etc I would never stand for such sub-par quality. Ever.
     
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  13. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. It is a serious failure and DTG should do something about it. Perhaps we should mention it in the stream live chat. I will.
     
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  14. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that, it will just be ignored
     
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  15. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree you are probably right on this point.

    The whole matter is that Rivet shouldn’t never have attempted to produce this route if they couldn’t present it to how it looks. Their resemblance of it, is totally inaccurate and an insult to the TS community, as well as to the beautiful place West Cornwall is.
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Then no simulator should ever exist... TSW has loads of flaws on scenery assets in every DLC ever produced so by your reckoning they should never be made
     
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  17. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    if we had more companies which would produce routes than we would have more competition which leads into better quality
     
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  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I could probably have lived with the Great Cornish Forest and Festival Of Tree Stumps, if they had got the 150 physics and sounds right.

    What's particularly irksome is that Jasper from Rivet is quick to pop up on the forum when it suits but in the face of justified constructive criticism, is nowhere to be seen.
     
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  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Oh, they screwed the 150 totally and if I remember correctly Jasper came on stream and stated he'd never been on one.
     
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  20. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    ARuscoe. You are right there are flaws in other routes. But I am talking about WCL, which more than other routes Rivet have missed so many important landmarks, far more than in any other route. I listed a few of them earlier in the thread and am not going to repeat them here. The fact of the matter in my opinion Rivet have failed to deliver a route that resembles West Cornwall.
     
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  21. terry english

    terry english Member

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  22. terry english

    terry english Member

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    I have to take a little bit of an issue over the statement that Rivit’s eye to detail with locomotives is superb.
    Have you taken a close look at the class 150 in the West Cornwall local.
    Stand inside the passenger compartment and take a good look around. There are two glaring omissions that I can see straight away.
    When the class150 stops at a station the guard presses the open buttons for the doors, but it doesn't open the doors, all it does is energises the doors so passengers who want to get on can open the doors by pressing the button to the right of the doors on the outside.
    Likewise, passengers on the inside who wish to get off can press the open button beside the doors. Here there should be two buttons, so if it's windy while the train is in the station, a passenger can press the close button to stop the wind from blowing in.
    Have a look at the doors and you will see that those buttons do not exist on the simulated 150. So, theoretically passengers on the inside can not get out if there isn't a passenger outside the door who wants to get in.
    Omission two.
    There should be, in the passenger compartment, the modern version of the communication chord, which is a handle a passenger can pull if there is an emergency. This handle is linked directly to the EBS, (electronic braking system), and will, when pulled, initiate an emergency brake application
    Now, if my memory serves me correct there should be two of these handles in each passenger compartment plus handles by the doors. Have a look, they have not been put in place.
    There are handles above the doors, but these open the doors in an emergency. Not a lot of good if the train is doing 75mph.
    So Rivit needs to look to their locos as well.
    While I'm on the subject and if my memory serves me correct, this scenario is supposed to be recreating the 1970’s. I think I read that somewhere.
    Class 150’s didn't appear in the West Country until the beginning of the 1990’s.
    Until then it was the DMU heritage units. In fact, it was the class 155 that came before the 150’s. These were then broken up to create the class153. That's when the 150’s started arriving.
    Another incorrect item is the drivers DRD in the cab, which is on the driver’s driving cab window sill.
    I worked as a guard in the West Country for 10 years from 1989 till 1999 and those devices were never there in any of the locos or DMU’s.
    So perhaps Rivit could put these errors correct, and at the same time do something about that lump of grey, which is supposed to be Truro Cathedral.
     
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  23. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    West Cornwall is set in the early 1990s, which is the problem with the extra layers including locomotives which had been withdrawn before then.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So DTG added inaccurate layers to try to save the route so to speak? Do they really think their customers are fools?

    Frankly DTG deserve as much blame for this mess as Rivet for publishing it in the first place
     
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  25. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    DTG added layers to salvage something from the route, and the layers are the main thing which makes the route enjoyable for many. It was the right thing to do in the circumstances. Nobody is forced to play them, but many enjoy doing so.
    Those people are not ‘fools’ - they know the layers are not correct for the era the route was intended to be set - but are able to look past that and enjoy it for what it is.
     
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  26. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    The new layers saved the route. Yes the cl.40/45 were withdrawn by the late 88s, but they never appeared in my sessions.

    Im glad the route was choosen, also in this br 90s period. Now its up to the producer to fix what needs to be fixed.

    The best way to do is an update for all wcl owners and 1-2 payware dlcs on top to enhance the experience. Either with extensions (fallmouth branch / china clay) or loco dlcs. So they can give this nice area a new shot.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  27. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think there's a couple of things to be realistic with here. No matter how much we moan....

    There will not be a free scenery update or any major tweaks to this whatsoever. If anything they'll be a token gesture coupled with additional content like arosa to bundle alongside as costed dlc.

    These dreams that they owe us, they should give us a huge free scenic update, it's frankly delusional when there is a cost for when the developers have to pay for time . If they pay for time, you pay for their time.

    West Cornwall will stay how it is, preserved may support a minor update sweep with Rivet. This route is an old product that Rivet released, they have released two new products since. There's no point dreaming they owe you after you've bought something.

    Apologies if this sounds harsh but I'll eat a nice Chinese meal if I'm proved wrong. There was a comment earlier about Jasper not being about, of course he isn't, he doesn't care about you , me or the route, only getting the paycheque for promoting the next paid dlc.

    Lets start living in the real world, if you own this route, you own 99% of what it will be already bar a preserved sweep or a mod
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  28. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Tbh, people were seriously proposing layering the HST from Great Western in, so not much of a stretch to say 'NTP locos would be fine and even a bit more interesting'. At least the NTP locos are in a BR livery, and plain blue I believe stuck around on a few stragglers into the 90s (IIRC that last HST power car was repainted out of blue in 1991)
     
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  29. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, Mr Pacer. How did you get the username changed, by the way? Mine was a result of a slight misunderstanding when signing up…
     
  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Private message a mod/admin (I did it through Protagonist/Sam, but I'm sure JD and Jamie can do it).
     
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  31. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I’ll give it a go.
     
  32. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    There'll always be a minority of fanboys that will buy their stuff no matter what, but I do wonder how many sales have been lost to Rivet by people like me who never purchased it or any other stuff since Arosa (And that soon got uninstalled.)? Purely because of the dire efforts of the 150 in my case for WCL.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Puts hand up! I also refunded Arosa as well as WCL and didn't buy the Luzern route. In part because it was too short but mainly to send the message to Rivet they can't just release a flawed product, go "Oh well, fire and forget", then move on to try and sell something else. And I absolutely maintain that DTG should own their share of the issue. Unlike TSC, third party development for TSW is not a free for all, they are in control of who gets the tools and put the DLC for sale in their store so should be subjecting it to exhaustive QA that it cuts muster.
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Welp as the saying goes, "Desperate times call for desperate measures"
     
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  35. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    We really just need ability to toggle on/off additional (non-native) layers on routes on somewhere like the train selection screen. WCL isn't the only route where stock seen in timetable mode is not completely authentic. I'm sure that's far more complicated to implement than it sounds...
     
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  36. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I have made this point several times too. How can you possibly attempt to model a train, car, plane, without actually going to see one in the flesh and at least travelling on one, being next to one, it is truly bonkers to get inside the mind of someone who undertakes a huge project like this and doesn’t actually go on one, or consult real life 150 drivers etc etc. two of my students drive the things and I have offered numerous times to put them in touch with them both but no! An amazing unit utterly ruined thanks to shoddy workmanship.
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It was the layers which stopped me purchasing it, maybe I am in a minority though.

    Either DTG and others are trying to create an accurate recreation of something or they aren't, in this case it appears to be the latter!

    By the early 1990's BR blue and blue/grey was non existant on intercity services, certainly in full rakes, you might have got the odd vehicle still in that livery, non airconditioned mark 2's by then were fairly few and far between and certainly not used on main intercity services, and certainly not in full rakes. Class 45's were withdrawn in 1988, class 40's in 1984/85 and never ran in the Cornwall area or indeed in the south west , anyway. The only layer vaguely prototypical is the class 101. Trains were also not allowed to run without a brake vehicle. So for me the layers are a mind boggling addition and if this is the level of realism in TSW then I will continue to stick to TS1, the Cornish mainline is hardly going to be that busy. The incorrect ballast was enough for them to alter a modern period route, incorrect trains, and not just slightly incorrect on a period route are perfectly acceptable, apparently.

    I would have almost preferred the HST as a layer, it is just as unrealistic as the current layers but at least HST's were running in Cornwall at that time. Class 40, 45 and mark 2a-c vehicles were not.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    That would be a good compromise and would please everyone.
     
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  39. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    The layers make the route now they have extended it. If it was just the play thing for the 150/2 going to Truro and back all day it would have been fine.

    But that extra 11 miles without stations beyond Truro the route needs to the layers, it needs the trains otherwise the route would have been dead as dodo.

    Creating your own scenarios with the 43 shows what "fun" could have been had. Playing the throttle and breaks the whole way.
    Seeing as the 43 likes to power on...and you can't.

    Trying not to overspeed the all the way from Camborne down to Hayle is good fun.

    Conversely powering up the hill from Hayle is fun.

    I did think of one more glaring error...

    The junction of the old Helston branch at Gwinear. That is also a abomination. They have the old platform bit- which is great, but the road and everything around it is sort of wrong! hey ho. They dont even have the Station Masters house there, which is large house just back from the track.

    I do recommend if you come to Cornwall going to Gwinear Junction- Trevaskis Farm is there. The cakes and buns are delicious. I Digress.

    Its a fun drive, but in between the stations it could be disneyland rather than Cornwall.

    D
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Gillingham crossing bridge in game is a brand new metal box painted blue, IRL it's a decades old wrought iron bridge in black with flickering lights...
    Every route has glaring issues (to the locals) that many people probably wouldn't know to notice
     
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    In TS Classic I can make a scenario with a HST in the correct livery on the complete line from Plymouth to Penzance with stock in the correct BR era liveries, in fact I can start from Taunton, Bristol, Cardiff or Paddington if I want. The only reason for me to use TSW at the moment, frankly is for its service mode.
     
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  42. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    You have summed up exactly what I feel about WCL. I cannot comment on the accuracy of the scenery, stations or the 150/1 because I didn't want to buy an early 1990s Cornish main line route without an HST or with unrealistic layers.
     
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  43. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as I have previously said I think originally they were treating it all as a branch line. A plaything for the 150/2. With all the stops between Truro and Penzance it's a stopper service.

    As soon as they extended to St Austell of 11 miles of open track they should have borrowed the 43 from GWE and repainted it (yes wrong engine etc) for the mainline operation.

    But without the Paxman Valenta engine screaming everyone would have been equally grumpy?

    The route "lost it's purpose" in extending it to St Austell. It no longer a small branch line type event?

    But Warspite they have done the stations rather well. That is one plus amongst the not so good.

    D
     
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  44. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I had a run on it today, with a couple of mods it’s ok to look at (extra foliage, increased draw distance). Was nice to see other stock populating route (I know it’s not accurate) but those blooming 150 physics . Jesus!
     
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  45. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    With the response this community has put forth toward not only Rivet, but other 3rd party developers and DTG, does not make a welcoming environment to entice other third party developers.
     
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if they weren't constantly telling players that they make "A Highly immersive rail simulation featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world" then perhaps players wouldn't be as critical. They set the expectations themselves so it's not surprising that some have high standards.
     
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  47. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Not interessted in lowering the bar. This means i would have to go back to tsc for realism.
    I stopped tsc 3 years ago, and im not planning going back ever.
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I went back to it, I had virtually stopped using it around the time NTP and TVL came out but just got gradually bored with what TSW had to offer to the point where at the moment it isn't even installed, although I will be purchasing SOS very soon.

    The graphics on TSW are lovely, although I find some of the buildings (not so much the railway structures but other structures) and other assets like cars are little better than TSC ones. Service mode is the main pull for me for TSW but if I don't find it realistic and I can't do anything to change it then I find it irritating, maybe I am becoming a grumpy irritable old bloke as I get older.

    TSC can give TSW a run for its money especially when you start using the many enhancements available to the routes, environment and stock and at least I can grab a working timetable and make a realistic scenario, you can't even do that on TSW with its very basic scenario planner.

    I can drive a class 86 with realistic sounds a physics between Euston and Birmingham on a nice looking route on TSC (or a Pendolino if I so wish), will I ever be able to the same on TSW I wonder?

    Whilst I am not the kind to bash (usually I get called a fanboy or have been in the past) and I would never want to be insulting, I do find the fact that the class 150 was released with very incorrect application of sounds and physics astounding. Second generation DMU's of this period were known for the very distinctive way they sound and drove and if that isn't represented well then it ruins the experience and then to add those daft layers which do nothing to represent traffic in West Cornwall in the 1990's just completely turned me off a route I really wanted. Also on top of this why developers insist on planting woods and forests in places they don't exist baffles me too, I have seen this on many TS Classic routes. Also adding iconic structures with some degree of accuracy marks out a route from being just a vague represenation which could be anywhere to a real attempt to make a route be the place it is supposed to be.

    I have Rivits IOW and apart from the distant scenery which is bare, a problem in many TSW routes I think it is really nice, just a bit limited operationally and I will get the new Swiss route at some point so I am not being anti-Rivit. But WCL just seems to be a missed opportunity.

    So I am afraid my interest in TSW will be limited until I see developers take the same intent to create realistic historic routes as they do with modern routes, or we can do a lot more with scenario planner.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I too am torn between TSC and TSW at times. There's no doubt TSW with its all day timetable has potential but is then hindered by the short routes and the poor lighting. We have been discussing the TSC Maerdy route in other threads. The first activity takes place as dusk is falling but the track is not covered with a black layer or the surrounding hills in dark shadow. Finally TSC has the benefit of the route and scenario editors which DTG steadfastly refuse to give us or even discuss these days giving to general users.
     
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  50. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I am not talking about lowering the bar, but having mature constructive criticism rather than the current trend of “cancel” culture… like people stating a company should not produce any more content or the sounds hurt my ears or the scenery wants me to scratch my eyes out. Or calling people who like the content “fan-boys” because they don’t agree another over whatever is the current subject of discussion.

    If the community wants to encourage more third party developers to provide content, I would suggest more constructive criticism. If the company does not make content to one’s liking - put up an honest review so others can see why you don’t like it then move on. No need to degrade the company over and over.

    As to TSC, I run it a lot still because I rather enjoy the scenario format where the authors build a story around the scenario. I do not think you can get any more realistic driving or the UP FEF-3 . Or if I want more prototypical railroad operations, Run8. Doesn’t matter to me if a headlight is of the wrong shape, or the color of the ballast is off or a fence is of the wrong type or too close/far from the roadbed or missing entirely since I am more interested in the drive then just the eye-candy.

    If it is realism you want, I recommend you look at Run8 or Zusi3
     
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