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Updates On The Csx Loco Physics Improvements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CONDUCTOR29, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. CONDUCTOR29

    CONDUCTOR29 New Member

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    Hello DTG,

    We've been patiently waiting months now (now going on TWO YEARS since release) and we've heard nothing recently about the physics improvements. I, like many others, havent even opened my game in about 6 months now because the train handling is so poorly rendered.

    Please give us an update.

    Mark.
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the articles?
     
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  3. CONDUCTOR29

    CONDUCTOR29 New Member

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    Yes, I did. That was a long time ago and there's been no news since. We're seriously expected to wait years from when we buy the software to when it's in a useable/finished state? This wasn't billed as early access software, and it's too broken to actually use.

    Contacting steam and filing a complaint and I advise others to do so also.
     
  4. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about? The most recent update on physics improvements was only last month- and I think we'll get another update at the end of this month.

    In the June update, the team explained that they would go through the diesels in reverse order, starting with the GWE class 66, which they even showed a piece of UE4 prototype flowchart for. After the class 66, they'll do the class 43, followed by the CSX locos. This includes brake physics, too- someone asked about that.

    And I think you're exaggerating a little. It's not "unplayable." Sure, the unrealistic braking and such on, say, the AC4400CW makes it easier and less realistic, but not unplayable. Besides, we've gotten a few updates, and at least newer DLC is much less glitchy.

    (Rapid Transit is a different matter... the game will not let me complete the last scenario on that one. Go complain about that.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  5. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I just ran the last scenario in Rapid Transit with PZB enabled and finished with no difficulty. Would be interested to know what problems you are experiencing.
     
  6. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    It's fine up until I get to Leipzig-Messe, when the game ignores me unlocking the doors. It just stays on the "load passengers" instruction, and the program bar doesn't even fill up. I should probably file a bug report.

    Even without this problem, RT has plenty of missing small details covered in other routes, along with terrible services and AI traffic.
     
  7. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Didn't run into any problems as you list - so if it is a bug, it isn't a consistent bug. Just a thought as I type this -- where you stopped in the correct location? I know in TS if have a certain percentage of your train outside of the station marker loading of passengers will not work - not sure if that would be the same on TSW or not.
     
  8. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yup, it was stopped correctly. If it wasn't, it wouldn't prompt me to load passengers, would it?
     
  9. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Valid point - it was just a thought - -so not sure what happened on your run but did not have any problems on mine so wonder what the cause was -- anyway - hope it get sorted for you - Best.
     
  10. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Even with the 'updated' physics there's still no wheelslip. Wheelslip is a pretty basic feature to have in a train simulator, so two years on from release, where is it???

    Where's the ATP and TPWS for GWE? Where's the updated PZB for RT?

    We know that DTG have no intention of fixing Rapid Transit, so if you purchased RT expecting the signalling to work correctly, well tough you're not getting it fixed. Of course, you can always hand over more cash for RSN which has working PZB. So the PZB works now, but DTG already have your money for RT, so why should they bother fixing it? I imagine the same will go for ATP and TPWS on GWE if a new British DLC comes out.

    Unless people stop giving DTG money, they'll carry on releasing new DLC without fixing the base game and previous DLC. RSN looks really beautiful from all the screenshots I've seen, but I know if I purchase it I'm giving DTG tacit approval for the way they are behaving, which I strongly disagree with.

    When a product has so many unaddressed fundemental flaws, and the developers have completely misunderstood the market, it won't be long before it goes the way of Flight Sim World. It's a shame, because at one stage TSW had a lot of potential.
     
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  11. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They never said RT won’t ever be fixed. They said that they “have no plans” to fix it. To fix the PZB in RT it would require resignalling the whole route, and they don’t have time to do that.
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    We still have a lot of unfinished content and bugs on GWE. How long has it been out for now?

    A few things wrong with it:
    - Broken speed limits (doesn’t matter what train you are driving)
    - Broken safety systems (DSD/AWS/TPWS) AWS will go off on a clear aspect.
    - Broken signalling and *still* no flashing yellows
    - Dodgy diagraming for freight and local stopping services. Slow lines - fast lines - slow lines
    - No P.A/C.I.S
    - Sounds seem off for the Class 166 and there’s no interior noise at all or it’s missing.

    It feels like the bug fixing team make a small attempt to fix the bugs before moving on to another route, leaving these old bugs untouched.
     
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  13. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    If you ordered some food in a restaurant and it was brought to the table with one of the items undercooked, would you find it acceptable for the restaurant to say 'we don't have time to fully cook it, but we'll still keep your money'?

    DTG has the time to fix the PZB, but rather than use their time to fix previous DLC, they choose to use it to create new DLC. The reason they do that is because people keep buying the new DLC despite the unfixed bugs and missing features in previous DLC and the base game.

    If the train sim community held DTG to a higher standard, we would get a better train sim and DTG would sell more of their products in the long run, so it would be win/win. If the community doesn't hold DTG to account with their wallets, DTG will run TSW into the ground whilst extracting as much money from the community as they can before finally announcing its cancellation. It's quite frustrating that we saw this exact scenario play out with Flight Sim World and yet many seem unable to see the parallels to TSW.
     
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  14. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Active Member

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    I for one have spent no money with DTG for quite a while for these exact reasons.

    Staff do you get it? Produce a better product and you will get more sales.
     
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  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They need to make more content to keep the momentum going and the money incoming in order to use toward fixing bugs.
     
  16. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Active Member

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    I understand they need money coming in to pay the bills, we all do.

    Problem is when you compare the amount of DLC coming out with the amount of bugs being released in supposed ready to go content, the small amount of bugs that are being fixed, and the very long time it takes to get a bug fixed, if ever, from a customer perspective it is really far out of proportion. Perhaps behind the scenes DTG really is doing their best to fix these bugs, but they sure don't communicate this very well if this is really the case.

    For instance, how much DLC in TSW and TSxx has been released since they made the announcement that the locomotive physics in TSW were finally going to be fixed?
     
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  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    DTG isn’t a AAA company. They are small, so it takes them longer.
     
  18. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Active Member

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    It sure doesn't seem to take them long to put out DLC, seems to be coming out at a steady pace.
     
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  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, it’s too keep the money coming in to keep TSW going.
     
  20. John Doe

    John Doe New Member

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    Dove Tail Games: approx. 120 employees
    Other example: SCS software (American Truck Simulator, European Truck Simulator and others) = approx. 90 employees.

    What can SCS software do better than DTG? free rescaling of ATS to customer requirements, 32-bit and 64-bit version in parallel, plus directX and openGl, a lot of free content to customer specifications, a free editor, hardly any crashes despite directX 9, regular free updates etc., etc.

    Yes, a very small company...
     
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  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They have other games too, you know. They don’t all work on TSW.
     
  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I know all businesses and companies need money to keep operating but I don’t like the logic of releasing buggy, incomplete DLC to make money (which DTG well knows is buggy and has problems) to fix bugs.

    The bugs need to be squished from the start, not months or in fact years in some cases, after release for it to be fixed.
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree, I am just giving reasons why they haven’t been fixed yet.
     
  24. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Knowingly releasing software which is broken or missing content is such a terrible business practice. All moral aspects aside, everytime you do it you're dragging your reputation and brand through the dirt, so you're damaging the profitability of any future products.

    If DTG are at the point where their only option is to knowingly release software which is broken or missing content just so they can pay the staff for another month, then TSW is a failed project, it's as simple as that. If things are not that desperate then they are acting in such a manner for profit, which in my eyes is an abysmal way to treat the train sim community.

    Where are the representatives from DTG in this thread? Tumbleweed as usual.
     
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  25. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Train Sim Luke watches these Forums.
     
  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s all well and good watching the forums but what good is that if you’re not going to make yourself visible and not contribute to the forums.
     
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  27. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    He does.
     
  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Once or twice a week on the odd thread doesn’t sound very good to me.

    A good moderator would reply to the majority of posters and acknowledge bugs and other queries.

    You are representing the company, and the image they are giving is not a very good one.
    Giving us the silent treatment with minimum communication sounds like they are not bothered about their customers.

    This is the official thread for discussion after all...
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
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  29. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Member

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    You do realize facts aren't allowed in forum discussions.
     
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  30. Symbiot911

    Symbiot911 Member

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    At risk of sounding like a complete noob, (which I'm sorry to say I am), would you mind explaining to me what PZB is. I've noticed that switch or button in the rapid transport train ab's wondered what it was for. Much appreciated.
     
  31. Symbiot911

    Symbiot911 Member

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    It's the same, sad, state of affairs across all game developers these days. It's amazing just how many games get released onto the market in such a bad state that they can be almost unplayable until the first 'fix' is released, often it seems, within two to four weeks. That fix usually only fixes some of the issues, but as many games these days are MMO, online co-op and the like, players also find that the servers are in such a bad state that again, along with the in game bugs, their game is further neutered by server issues. Why do the game studios sell us games that they know won't work properly at release? Do they not pay any attention to their beta trials and in house testing? Or is simply that it's a case of money grabbing? Christmas is coming, release the game regardless of its bugginess, then we'll release a patch to fix a few issues and then whack them for another $70 micro transaction dlc that hopefully will address some of the original bugs as well as give content, which of course will have a whole host of new bugs. It's happening all the time both on PC and console. Surely in this day and age developers would know to expect an avalanche of criticism that can really affect their bottom line when they release unfinished and buggy games. Yet still the practice continues.
     
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  32. John Doe

    John Doe New Member

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    Please, forgive me. I am an old man from the early sixties of the last millennium and therefore unfortunately a stupid honest businessman.
    And therefore there is only one right answer for me: don't listen to fanboys and don't wait like a stupid sheep for the butcher.

    But simply keep your wallet closed or give the money to others who have earned it.

    Greetings to all and good sleep, DTG!
     
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  33. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Companys wouldnt ever release games in a bad state if people would stop being stupid and stop preordering games. Nothing is going to change about it as long as these people still preorder games. Same with TSW.

    DTG made their intentions clear, to grab as much money out of their customers pocket as possible and yet you see the same people who rightfully bitched about the "huge announcement" preorder RSN.
     
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  34. Symbiot911

    Symbiot911 Member

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    Amen to that. I'm also from the same era as you and have been an avid gamer since the very earliest consoles with games like pong were released. I also build gaming PC's and play on that platform, and I just can't believe the road the gaming industry has gone down. Releasing games for $110 and you are literally getting maybe the 8th to a 1/4 of the game, and then they charge like wounded bulls for dlc's. The so called micro transactions are anything but and we are simply being fleeced. It's almost like we have to pay them for the bug fixes we get in the first patch. It's a disgrace
     
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  35. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    DTG doesn’t sell anything for $110.
     
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  36. Steve Cummins

    Steve Cummins Member

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    I've given up on DTG_Luke. When he first arrived he acknowledged that there was a lack of communication between DTG and the Community. He pledged to change things and the early signs were good however it appears that 'management' have pulled him into line and things have returned to the 'cold and dark' days. Until DTG management decide to change we won't have the type of Dev/Community relationship exhibited by the likes of SCS Software or even N3V (Trainz).

    At least we have the monthly Developer Studio Update. Hang on, I don't see one for August. Well, that was good while it lasted.
     
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  37. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s delayed. It will come.
     
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  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Communication has always been a problem on here but for a while, when DTG_Luke arrived, it looked as if thing were improving.

    However, it looks as though somebody high up wasn’t happy with the perfectly acceptable answers and responses we were getting and it has gone back to us being in the dark.

    The problem is the management of DTG. If they don’t like something, it’ll be gone within an instant, with no room for negotiation.

    You can add and remove as many moderators as you want but as the saying goes, a leopard never changes its spots.
     
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  39. Symbiot911

    Symbiot911 Member

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    I never said Dovetail Games sell anything for $110. Where did you get that from?
     
  40. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Any further intel on this? I know that theyre working on the HH locos and I know that the 66 and hst are done so Im wondering when they might drop the completed stuff on the GWE module.
     
  41. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They probably have to make sure that you can keep on schedule with the new physics.
     
  42. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I never even thought of that. Good shout!
     
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  43. Vinnie

    Vinnie Member

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    I don't think they really care about it, honestly. But it's nice to see they are improving physics.
     
  44. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Of course they do. :)
     
  45. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Have DTG kidnapped you Anthony? You seem to in the midst of a bad dose of Stockholm Syndrome. I’ve heard of being ‘glass half full’ but geez! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
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  46. SD40Australia-Daniel

    SD40Australia-Daniel Member

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    A long time ago?

    You think 45 days is a 'long time'?

    What kind of entitled person do you think you are?

    https://live.dovetailgames.com/live...es/article/train-sim-world-june-studio-update

    The June update was in 2018, not in 2016. Get your facts right before saying you have been waiting several years.

    Then you state you have heard nothing, then you reply to Anthony and say you did read the articles. You heavily contradict yourself, if you are not lying.

    Stop using the forums to push your negative agenda.

    If you have nothing good to say then how about keeping quiet?



    SD40Australia-Daniel
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  47. SD40Australia-Daniel

    SD40Australia-Daniel Member

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    So glad everyone is different!

    DTG also has the best PC train simulator product going.

    Hey if you are that upset go find something else to do.

    Sounds like you aren't enjoying this hobby.

    Or you are just another person suffering entitlement attitude syndrome.

    SD40Australia-Daniel
     
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  48. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    "If you have nothing good to say then how about keeping quiet?"

    Ahem..
     
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  49. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Active Member

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    You know when I buy a product, I do feel ENTITLED to receiving a product that works properly.

    The entitlement syndrome that you so fondly like to speak of does not apply here. Being entitled is the belief that you deserve something that does not belong to you or that you did nothing to earn. That would apply to someone making a complaint about a product they did not purchase.

    I spent money on a product that was advertised to function properly and simulate reality, and yes I do feel like I am ENTITLED to it working properly.
     
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  50. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Be happy that it’s at least being fixed. ;)
     

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