Us Routes Decline In Detail?

I'm not sure if it's based on the location, but I think that Sand Patch Grade from 6 years ago looks much more detailed than Antelope Valley from 2023. The trains, tracks, scenery, and vegetation all seem better in Sand Patch. I wish we had the same amount of care and detail in US content as we did in the that era.

 

Sand Patch Grade had a lot longer development time then the commercial routes that DTG put out now, they put a damn good amount of work into research and route specific details for SPG, that they never really do for newer route cause they have to meet deadlines.....

It makes pretty much all routes after SPG look terrible in comparison.

 

I'd much prefer a longer development cycle with less routes than the fast, sloppy releases now. Quality over quantity.

 

Oh, agree absolutely. Been saying that for years. Of course it was the flagship, the first route and DTG clearly wanted to kick start the franchise with quality.

I am pretty sure that we'll never see that standard again in a US freight route. Actually, we might never see another US freight route.

Make me eat my words, DTG!

 

SPG is a masterpiece in US routes. The accuracy in everything from the placement and selection of building assets, how accurate the hills and mountains area, and unique assets like the cabooses in Hyndman, the wooden benches for railfans next to some of the crossings (I've been to that in real life), etc. They nailed it. To the level where I'd love to have a "behind the scenes" write up some day of how they managed to get that route so correct.

I have heard that more time development went into that route which makes sense.

Still though considering that the devs for all these DTG routes are on the other side of the world from the US I am impressed at how well they do on all of them. But there definitely seems to have been a drop off in a lot of areas.

TSW needs some home grown North American talent that has the knowledge and time to give US content the justice it deserves.

 

SPG had a longer development time then the current routes that developed by DTG. Backed in 2016, DTG needed a masterpiece to kick start the brand new TSW franchise, for SPG, quailty is everything. But later, DTG foucs more quantity than quailty, all US freight route after SPG never reached the same height as SPG, SPG is still a masterpiece even in TSW4 standard. Sadly, we didn't see any US freight after the Cajon Pass. Would it be another US route reach the same quailty level of SPG? I don't think so, but maybe a 3rd party can do this, like JT developed BPO and TSG made Niddertalbahn.

 

Our only 3rd party route developer is HIS, so ehh maybe maybe not, some good people there, but also not some good people.

 

Pretty much the only thing that's improved with later freight routes is longer trains.

 

i got into TSW because of SPG, at that time i thought if they deliver more NA freight routes like that TSW be great but at this point with the lack of freight and Focus DTG Gone Passenger train crazy with US routes i ve become disappointed with TSW as a whole and i am really not too excited about TSW4 sucessor that be revealed tomorrow. In the Direct just hear fluff about all the great US Passenger routes we will be getting prob wont be more than a peep about any NA freight content if any in pipeline other than HIS santa fe pak thats soupposed to come it prob be somthing rehashed from TSC ..HIS better be improve. On their game with their TSW content...also i prob not investing in TSW until US freight makes a good come back..and if not then my money will go elsewhere

 

I think we all do. It’s all anyone has ever said since this game first came out, but DTG don’t seem to want to deliver it, at least not consistently. One minute we get detail levels like the Goblin line, the next we get something that’s not so clever.

I don’t recall ever seeing a single post on this forum where someone said ‘give me poor quality, quickly produced DLC. As long as it looks roughly right I don’t care about the rest of it’. It just doesn’t happen.

It should be noted that it’s not just DTG, Rivet’s products are pretty ropey to be honest. We’re lucky we have Just Trains who are committed to quality & I really hope we see US routes hit this level going forward.

I still wait patiently for a good section of the rocky mountaineer done to a high detail level. That could be very spectacular indeed.

 

Remember when Matt promised they'd find their way to SPG? *sigh*

 

That’s pretty much what makes me rarely touch SPG these days. The route is beautifully done, no doubt, but I don’t want to go back to the 50-car trains with poor physiscs - especially the dynamic brakes. For the latter, there’s still the Dash 8, but that means reloading until you get a consist without any AC44s.

 

Problem is US railroad companies not wanting anything to do with DTG, so it's impossible to get licences. Dovetail being a non-US company doesn't help either, because anything not American is inferior and must be ignored.

This is one of the rare times when I say it's not DTG's fault.

(Probably best to screen shot this post, I might never say that again.)

 

That has NOTHING to do with SCENERY. Which can easily be researched by Google Maps, photos, etc.

When you compare the unique assets on the side of the route on SPG to later routes, the difference is alot. DTG put in ALOT of work getting specific details like certian buildings or those 2 caboose's on the wayside on the route.

Later routes most of the assets are generic and copy and paste. An example is on Antelope Valley, where the old Sagus Depot with a SP engine and Caboose are just a generic building in Newhall.

 

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The San Bernadino coummuter route thats coming soon will prob be more antelope valley cut and paste scenery etc im not even much excited for it ..Antelope route never was a big thrill for me i hardly play it except maybe a free roam freight here and there ..The F125 is ok but there not many of them .Progress rail EMD has basically faded the SD70T4 s were a fail CSX gave up the lease on theirs guess only UP run s the remaining ones most commuter and passenger operators have gone to Siemens for new locomotives

 

Oh dear, where does one begin?

US railroads have a long history of working with DTG and its partners. If what you say is true, how do you explain SPG, Cajon Pass, BPE, NYT and all the American locos they have built, including Amtrak, MBTA and Caltrain for example

And the notion that American railroads are so xenophobic that they don't like to deal with a British company is so fatuous that I'm sure DTG execs would laugh at that statement if they saw it.

I'm chuckling myself right now.

 

It's been stated numerous times, particularly by Matt himself, that the US passenger operators such as Amtrak, NJT and MBTA have actually been very cooperative and helpful. The freight operators themselves are also cooperative on a corporate/legal level, hence DTG very easily have and renew their licenses with CSX, UP and BNSF. The problem is the Class 1 railroad operators themselves, the management on that level which outright refuses to allow DTG to get anywhere near the trains themselves. This means it's impossible for them to get actual reference material for cab interiors, collect performance data, and most of all record sounds. And given the way this community has responded to such issues in the past, for the most part sub-par sounds will not do.

You can see evidence of this block as far back as Sherman Hill. The SD70's sounds are outright the TSC recordings of the BR Class 66, Matt said this also in another thread. They couldn't get actual sound recordings, so they had to reuse what they had to get as close as possible. This is also likely why asides from the ES44C4 which did somehow get some new sounds, both the BNSF SD40-2 and SD70ACE are both performance-wise and sound-wise identical to their previous releases, whether this is accurate or not.

In the end, the lack of freight is down to a combination of stubbornness from both ourselves and the operators. For some time it has been a stalemate between player expectations and operator restrictions, hence since the release of TSW3 we have only received one new freight route, yet three new passenger routes. And beyond those mere four US routes, in the same time we've had nine European routes and ten UK routes. Luckily in this new climate some people seem to be coming around to the idea of settling for 'as accurate as reasonably possible' in order to finally get these freight routes again, and personally I do think that is best for everyone.

 

Yet where did DTG get those GEVO's sounds from? Those were probably one of the better sounding freight locos that was been made for TSW so far. Shame SHG doesn't update their NS ones with them.

 

Yet over in TSC corner we have just had a nice set of Alco C424’s released with absolutely superb sounds, running on the Feather River Canyon Enhanced route which, from what I’ve seen so far, blows most of the TSW US freight routes out of the water as regards quality of scenery.

Then there are the other classic routes in TSC, B&O, VHNRR to name but two, lovingly recreated and using period motive power with largely excellent sounds.

Yes there are undoubtedly obstacles, but methinks maybe DTG are not trying quite hard enough where both the route detail and motive power concerned. I mean yegods, if we could get FRC and those Alco’s decently done in TSW, DTG could take my £30 tomorrow.

 

Thats why i went to TSC , I am enjoying it especially the NA freight and passenger , get longer routes , freight switching its not all point A to B runs ..there is unbranded METRA commuter trains Tri Rail , Coaster , etc im fine with them i think its time for unbranded trains to come to TSW since cant get license s for a lot of routes and operators ..the only way we going to be able to maybe get that is to lower expectations and embrace the idea of having some unbranded trains

 

And of course nothing DTG can do is really going to match what Run 8 has to offer. Well operationally, sadly if you think TSW US routes are a bit sparse then Run 8 - for all its good points - can look very bare bones in places and those 2D cruciform trees everywhere, particularly on the Florida route…

 

I've also heard Run 8's version of HSC is like 95% generic assets with very little unique things to the route.

Only real thing I'll applaud Run 8 for is having a route that is like less than 20 minutes from my home.

 

As far as for the sound quality in TSC its not perfect either although it could be improved. As far as TSW all i would expect is DTG try to get the best out of what they have to work with improvise..i think we all need to accept the fact that if DTG cant get access to sounds lower your expectation s even DTG needs too also and do the best they can and go with it..otherwise we will never see more freight or even some older classic stuff for NA there lots of nice classic old trains steam diesel electric in TSC ..TSC even has 2 UP Big Boy steam engines the Challenger ..its a crying shame that these probably. Never come to TSW

 

That's just beyond the scope of the Run8 project, which focuses on realistic operation.

Having this large network is more important than modelling every assets of an area that's about the size of 500,000 square miles (rough guess of the whole Run8 covered area.)

It takes a single dev about two years modelling a 40 miles route and creating assets in TSW, if not longer. The more detail you put into scenery assets, the less mileage you can offer. See TSW. It is way behind TSC in terms of content after seven years now.

No other game genre needs you to rebuild a whole world, which is just not doable for a small team. And I really don't mind, because it's not about sightseeing in that case. The immersion works for me, and it comes from the reliable gameplay, resembling true working shifts without immersion killing gimmicks like Action Points or Collectibles. The game just lets you do what you want to. And brakes, DPU etc work as expected throughout all available stock, not being plagued by bugs and glitches. In TSW I can't even tell the load of my cars, or have to wonder why Airflow shows 0 while brakepipe isn't still charged fully...

 

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One plus about TSC is with the editor the TSC community can edit routes extend or combine routes and add scenery make improvements maybe this will eventually come to the PC side of TSW plus the editor for TSW PC is still in beta

 

id love to get run 8 ...but they need to bring their game to Steam ...are there any plans for Run 8 to come to Steam store

 

No, and I doubt it, they are for a VERY Niche group of Train simmer, and is probably not financially viable for them to bring it to steam, not to mention the licensing headaches they would have with the branding they include in the sim.

 

Correct. The question has been asked a few times on forums and Facebook frequented by people associated with Run 8 and the response is almost always a pretty vehement no. Which means anyone interested in the programme has to use their rather archaic e-commerce system, plus keep the files backed up yourself as there’s no account to log into to redownload or keep track of what you own, other than your notes.

 

You don't need to keep the downloads. After switching to a new PC, all I did was to copy the whole installation over. And the auto updater will detect corrupt and outdated stuff (it's brilliant). You don't need to go through V2 - conversion - V3 again, just move the Run 8 folder over. Only keep your confirmation emails.

 

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No run 8 for me then ill just have to live with TSC Trainz for my NA train sim fun..

 

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Run 8 not that great to me if thats how they do things

 

Well, the game is fine, nothing gets you closer to feeling being a real railroader.

And yes, keep a small textfile with your purchases (though the ingame consist maker shows you in grey what you don't have yet).


If they convert their old V2 installers (not sure if they already did so), it's not a big deal really.

 

not that easy for me i dont understand all this 3rd party e commerce file stuff ..Steam is easy click purchase and down load done and play no fuss no hassles in trainz and TSC i only buy stuff off steam store i dont trust that e commerce stuff

 

Its not looking better with San Bernardino.

Light poles in the middle of I-10? Really?

 

Isn't the scenery more lush on the east side of the country? I've only been out west so don't know, but it looks it.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the cars on the freeway are gonna be going like 20 mph or just being completely stopped.

 

They are already floating.

 

got a little giggle seeing 5 of same trucks there.

 

What's the name of the mod you are using to have ToDv4 skies on SPG?

 

Nothing that happened today was a surprise. DTG has been fairly forthcoming about the state of NA routes. They seem to only want to work with companies who will work with them. And who are these companies? MBTA and Metrolink. That is all. I am disappointed about the state of NA routes but I have also come to terms with it. There are many reasons that have brought us to this point. Whether or not the reasons were valid has certainly been debated, literally for years. But that debate is over. I don't think SBD will have a place in my collection right now but the MBTA route might, especially if they can finally, miraculously, unimaginably get cab signals all-the-way right, for once! To be honest, once I started dabbling in PZB and German routes I got hooked, and that is where the majority of my time is spent now anyways. Whether or not exploring new countries is an acceptable silver lining is up to all of us. Of course as others have mentioned there is more NA content available on other simulators as well. In my opinion the people who were in a position to do something about NA content have given it their best effort. I respect that, and move on

 

Well tbf, cars completely stopped on an LA freeway are very realistic

 

Yeah but seeing them spawn in front of you stopped and then start moving slowly isn’t realistic.

 

Im probably not buying San Bernadino until it s at a discount its just same build as antelope floating cars on the highways re hashed desert terrain from antelope and cajon pass , DTG just give US lackluster routes with very little effort put into them compared to UK EU routes .They keep shoving Passenger routes EMU DMU and modern trains that look more like planes .Freight is almost extinct now now in TSW not only NA but UK EU too, All the new train s and routes announced all passenger EMU dmu ICE type passenger trains not anything freight except San Bernardino route and to get freight layers gotta have or buy Cajon pass ..

 

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Also San Bernardino was to have been 1 of the US routes for TSW4 they just dupe US customers and hold it to TSW 5 and the only US route was a re hash LIRR 2 with a measly 14 mile branch added annnnddd another new EMU .No new Freight routes since TSW 3 and no freight routes or anything freight for US on radar i honestly think now there no freight coming they keep giving put offs and excuses how much longer are we going to have to wait ...if more US freight stuff is coming it better come sometime in TSW5 cycle it s too overdue they should have not neglected freight for US with this long a cycle .

 

We need more eastern US routes set in the Midwest, South, or Appalachia using either Norfolk Southern or CSX

 

It's on Train Sim Community something along the lines of "All North American Routes Time of Day Upgrade. I wish I knew how to do it manually as I want to apply it to other routes.

 

The principle is fairly simple. Locate the map blueprint and exchange everything TOD3 related to TOD4. (for example, "BP_TODSystemV3" > "BP_TODSystemV4")

Then tune the Intensity of the SkylightComponent down to 1.0.

That's basically all. Additionally you can tweak some light curves (best to take them from existing TOD4 routes) Of course some materials like water can look off and lightsources/emissives will be too dim, as they need to be adjusted for the lighting, but it's a simple way to quickly toggle the sky for daytime use.

I've done that for SPG myself now, as the mod you are referring to is outdated and messes with the timetable selection (two unnamed timetables appearing).




Northern Trans-Pennine TODv4 test:



and TVL