Views On The Db Br 187

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by paintbrushguy, Oct 16, 2021.

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  1. I wanted it, but chose not to. (includes refunds)

    66.2%
  2. I wanted it, and bought it

    18.5%
  3. I didn't consider getting it, and didn't get it. (includes refunds)

    13.4%
  4. I didn't consider getting it, and bought it.

    2.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Active Member

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    [Constructive criticism]
    What are your views on the DB BR 187?
    Do you think Skyhook Games/DTG should remove the DLC from stores pending an update on the sounds?
    Do you think Skyhook should be placed under scrutiny regarding future releases?
    Will you buy Skyhook products again unless a significant improvement is made such as Rivet and WCL.
    Please don't just bash Skyhook or anyone else, but provide constructive reasoning.
     
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  2. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I think the biggest issue to come out of the DB187 release is messaging from Skyhook. Not bothering to show up in the release stream to answer customer queries, providing incorrect information about the loco to Sam/DTG pre-stream (ie BRD substitution) and then failing to provide an explaination regarding the sound files used pre-release is pretty unacceptable imo and needs to be improved upon in future releases.
     
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  3. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, Skyhook should make a quick fix. Sound repair should be their top priority if they want to save their investment in this DLC with their reputation.
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to get it since I love German freight. I didn‘t get it and this was the timeline for me:

    I got skeptical when there was no preview stream which caused me to feel like something must be wrong with the loco (seemed like I was wearing a tinfoil-hat at the time - not so sure if I really was now). Then I was even more skeptical when no one from Skyhook was ready to come on stream. Shortly before release (for us in Europe), we got to know about the sounds, which Skyhook didn‘t even bother to inform us of. If the loco had convinced me with other features, I might have been willing to accept the sounds, but then the first bug reports came in showing what a mess (excuse the language) the loco really is - broken LZB and AFB, PZB issues, wrong light configurations, wrong markings, etc.

    Ultimately, I think Yerolo hit the nail on the head. The issues the loco suffers from are bad enough as is, but Skyhook did not communicate at all prior to release apart from marketing articles praising the loco‘s authenticity. A simple statement prior to release stating why it uses the wrong sounds and why it is being released anyway would have managed expectations. When the forums were ignited, Skyhook should have reconsidered not sending anyone to help Sam. Even if they really had no one available, it just looks shady to not show up to defend your product after such a backlash.

    I‘m not even mad like some other forums members are. I‘m just disappointed that the first German mainline freight loco DLC after the 155 (believe it is, right?) turned out the way it did. I was looking forward to it but won‘t be getting it until all of the major issues and the sounds are fixed - if they‘re ever fixed, that is.
     
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  5. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Although I will agree that DB 187 has been a major letdown and there is no excuse for that, and some of the excuses have been infuriating ("no one outside of Germany is gonna know it's wrong"... come on) I will say one thing in its defence and that is that in my view their actual reason for wrong sounds is valid.
    The reason they gave, Covid, wasn't just because there was no longer access to go out and record but they actually lost their contacts withing DB that drove the 187 and so lost all access to the real sounds.
    If SkyHook vows to fix the sounds if and when they get a new (or old) contact back on the 187 and regain access, I can forgive the wrong sounds used.
    Though arguibly they should've also considered shelving the product until access was restored, but given the work and investments, they need to eat too, and they were probably too far in to just shelve it now, so I get that they didn't.
     
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  6. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I live in the UK, guess what I know what a 187 sounds like!


    I understand the difficulties during production but if they had just said that it would be something that they would be actively working on to remedy and not just have the attitude like it or lump it then it would have been a future purchase, but not as is and never if they don't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The main issue for me was the sound, combined with Skyhook offering little in the form of preview streams and their absence during the release stream.

    That being said, some things like the MFD functionality and the fact that you can walk through the engine room and the overall look of the model seem really interesting. If sound ever gets fixed due to source material becoming availabe I will definetely reconsider my position and probably buy it :).
     
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  8. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Skyhook studio is only hurting itself with this bad approach. They certainly know how important sound is. At the first show on Thursday, even their representative of the Skayhook studio was not there. I don't like that kind of behavior.
     
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  9. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    The extreme lack of any communication from skyhook directly plus the lack of any updates to cane creek (which also has major rolling stock issues) is enough for me to not considering any future purchase of a skyhook product. My hopes of them fixing the list of issues concerning the 187 are very very low. I've seen enough.
     
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  10. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Don't know where the BankingCOMM button is?
     
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  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That‘s why I‘m particularly disappointed with the complete product. Especially the modeled the engine room, in my opinion, does show that this was not intended to be a cash-grab or something alike. But all of the discussed issues stop me from enjoying the loco.


    Same here. I was still undecided about my attitude to the Horseshoe Curve given the Cane Creek issues, but after the 187 (if it doesn‘t see any fixes soon), I‘ll probably stay away from it unless the preview streams (should we even get any) knock me out of my seat.
     
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  12. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    I made a refund, there is so many wrong with this loco, but the poor sounds tops everything. I would be ashamed to release a DLC at this bad state.

    I was hoping for a good third party loco like the BR101 but for freight, but this loco is a mess!
    There are to many bugs like AFB not working correctly, LZB not working, headlight setup messed up and some more...and then the copy & paste of the broken BR146 sounds :mad:

    I made also a negative steam review to prevent any to buy this bad thing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  13. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Just in case someone does not know, the BR101 is not a 3rd party product. It is a DTG product. Made with the help of a 3rd/2nd party instance.
     
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  14. victor.malhard

    victor.malhard New Member

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    For me, the lack of transparency, but mainly the lack of respect for the community, is the biggest aggravating factor. It is an insult to create a product that is missing several parts and sell it at full price, then hide and ask people who have some influence to explain the inexplicable.

    Come on, Skyhook didn't have the slightest disposition to make a note of the problems and give a deadline to fix them. Lack of courage and manliness.

    I asked for a refund and I don't buy any more products made by them. There is no more trust. I hope another simulator comes along soon, with people who have respect for their consumers, because here, we won't find that anymore.
     
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  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I was very much interested in this loco to add to my growing German collection in TSW 2, but it’s not worth my money in this state - not even if it was heavily discounted. What Skyhook are selling is NOT the DB BR 187.
     
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  16. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t completely lost trust in Skyhook yet. It depends how they handle this situation. If we get better communication and bug fixes, this product has potential. If they go quiet, then obviously I won’t buy it.

    I hope they come up with something to improve the situation. The other option is that they will just decide TSW isn’t worth it and disappear completely.

    It can definitely be turned around. Look at Rivet. Until yesterday they were pretty much in the same place. But they came on, talked about the issues with Arosa and then showed off a product which you can see shows signs of listening to community feedback. If Skyhook do the same then I’m sure some will give them a chance.
     
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  17. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Active Member

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    I'm new here but while I can understand Skyhook can't acces to real sound anymore, maybe they should have communicate about it clearly before, maybe they should have managed to sell the DLC at lower price as long the real sounds are not updated.

    Some people that don't care that much would be happy with the lower price.
    The people that want it 100% good sound wouldn't buy it, but at least they would know it before.
    And finally some would accept buy it at a discount price despite limitations.
    But maybe there is no discount possibilities due to contract or something else.
     
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  18. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Either way, the DB BR 101 and Class 465 are currently the benchmarks by which all loco DLC will be judged.

    I think you're right about Rivet. They really seem to be taking feedback seriously - I only watched a part of the stream, but it all felt much more positive and with a good attitude toward any points raised in the chat. It will be interesting to hear the initial reviews of WCL and see how they respond to any issues which emerge. They obviously see the benefits of developing content for TSW so hopefully they can continue to work closely with DTG and keep pushing up the quality levels.

    I don't think they should have discounted it necessarily, and it obviously depends on their cashflow etc, but postponing the release with a statement saying they're waiting for the sounds so the loco can be accurate and the best they can make it, would have given a very clear signal about the standards they want to hold their product to. There may have been initial grumbles, but I suspect that holding off, then releasing the "long-awaited" loco with more polish and the proper audio would have resulted in more sales overall.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  19. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I really hope I am. I have a lot of their content for TS2022 and would like to continue buying their products. I’m looking forward hopefully to the release stream.

    Skyhook on the other hand - I have no past history with them, so if there is no change, then they’ll have lost me.
     
  20. SkidMarkYT

    SkidMarkYT New Member

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    This is a small excerpt taken from the DTG website press release for SHG BR 187 'This brand-new Add-On also includes a complement of varied freight rolling stock, Habbins 334, Roos-T 645, Shimms-TTU 772, and Shimms-U 708 wagons '

    So I ventured into scenario planner with the BR 187 and I was overwhelmed at the choice on offer, 1x engine+17 loaded mixed freight or 1x light engine. Is it me or am I expecting too much?? I mean I would like to create a consist of only hauling Habbins or another day hauling Roo's but no, I can't even do that!! Been well and truly mugged off with this DLC
     
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  21. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Isn't this feature exclusive to American (U.S. & Canadian) locomotives? I've never encountered in in British or German engines -- but, then, I've never expected to do so, either.
     
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  22. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Does not work on the 187 only on the 185 for some reason
     
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  23. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Nope, was there in TSW2020 too. The 185 on MSB has it and it's necessary for banking on the Spessart Rampe.
     
  24. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I was going to get it but choose not to, because of the sounds. I am not satisfied with their reasoning behind it, because people like Maik Goltz could still get sounds during a pandemic. Why can’t third party devs actually bother visiting the train or route they are doing?
    Makes no sense tbh
     
  25. xi haoyu china

    xi haoyu china Active Member

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    i will not buy the 187 because i dont care about it and i have never seen it in real life. also, i do not like sounds of it. it looks like alien also.
     
  26. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Active Member

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    I thought you left!
     
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  27. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    The 187 is the first TSW DLC that I've refunded. It's a shame as I wanted to like it, but the sounds are painful to listen to.
     
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  28. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I might get it now the community has modded it and the sounds.
     
  29. adam.fisher6912

    adam.fisher6912 Member

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    I bought it and can't really drive it as it is just so noisy. (I wear headphones so can hear everything)
    I don't know enough about it to say this is wrong or that is wrong.
    It is beautifully (in my opinion) modelled. I just wish it didn't sound so horrendous as it would get a lot more playtime
     
  30. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It seems like we can already see Matt‘s new 3rd party policy in action. Doesn‘t help the 187, but Skyhook is officially reaching out to the community for help with the Horseshoe Curve.
     
  31. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't get it because it's broken. What Skyhook games should have done was that Pre Covid-19 pandemic in Europe is that they could have gotten Permission from Deutsche Bahn RRO RSN Hagen Vorhalle Koln Gremberg Koln Kalk or MRCE for BR 187 sounds. The way it would have been done it's similar to how Armstrong Powerhouse did to Class 205 DEMU.
     
  32. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for making yourselves known again, BBB's.
     

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