Visions Of Multiplayer

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Doomotron, Sep 18, 2021.

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  1. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Before certain members of the forums start complaining that they don't want multiplayer in TSW, please do it elsewhere. This is a thread for genuine, constructive suggestions on potential implementations of multiplayer, should DTG add it in the future. Thank you in advance.

    Multiplayer is a feature that is wanted by a lot of people, but most of these people do not know or care how multiplayer should be done. I have been looking at other games with multiplayer and seeing how DTG could learn from them should multiplayer be added to TSW2. There are three main options that I have seen.

    1 - MASSIVELY OPEN ONLINE RAILWAYS (STEPFORD COUNTY RAILWAY)
    Stepford County Railway, a popular Roblox train simulator, well known for its overenthusiastic playerbase and hypocritical developers, is one of many games that uses MMO-style gameplay. In the game, players control trains in a 24-hour 'timetable' alongside other players, who are also driving trains, riding them, or just walking around. The SCR/MOOR approach works very well in SCR as there is no set timetable, and there is strong moderation that prevents players from sabotaging each other's rides. The game works very well in its circumstances, but if DTG was going to add multiplayer Service Mode to TSW, there would need to be some major changes.
    1. In order for there to be enough trains for players to drive, there would need to be consistently busy timetables for every route 24 hours a day. This would require brand new timetables for every route, which would be incredibly difficult.
    2. A common issue in SCR is trains being 'cancelled' because no players have chosen to drive the service. DTG could get around this with an AI driver controlling all trains that aren't driven by players.
    3. SCR has a progression system which means players have to spend in-game points to gain access to other trains and services. For this to work in TSW, there would need to be lots of very distinct services to unlock and lots of different trains to drive. There are/were around 37 trains in SCR (including removed trains and ones that were never added), and that's a lot for DTG to do. This means that the way the trains would be added would likely be alongside the release of them for the real game so as not to overload the 'train team'. But in order to have lots of trains and distinct services, very few real-world routes would make sense. Therefore, a fictional network like SCR would make the most sense for the MOOR approach. For the UK there could be something like Cresston and for Germany there could be Seebergbahn or Im Koeblitzer Bergland (I am trying to resist the urge to say how much I want these routes in TSW).
    4. While not required, it would be quite nice to have dynamic weather for this approach.
    5. In the public servers of SCR, you are not allowed to walk on tracks. This would be very hard to implement in TSW, as lots of gameplay requires walking around on the ground. Therefore, it may be preferable just to teleport players out of the way of oncoming trains instead of stopping them from setting foot on the ground.
    Overall, I don't think the MOOR approach would work very well, for now at least. It would be too ambitious and would have too many problems for Dovetail to solve. MOOR is a lot harder to implement when the R stands for Railways than for Racing it seems. (That was a Test Drive Unlimited Reference, please like me)

    2 - CO-OP SCENARIOS (SAINTS ROW)
    One of the defining features of the Saints Row series is its co-op campaign option. DTG could do something like this, by having specific co-op scenarios for two or more players. The two players, connected over a peer-to-peer connection (so no servers for DTG to run), could play the scenario together and both would get XP and Mastery rewards, if you are one of the eleven people who actually use them.

    3 - PEER-TO-PEER LOBBIES (GRAN TURISMO)
    Gran Turismo's multiplayer mode has always worked with peer-to-peer connections. The online mode was first introduced with Gran Turismo 4 Online Test Version in 2006 (although GT4 also had LAN play and GT3 and Concept had i.Link/FireWire multiplayer) and has remains relatively unchanged over the years. In order to solve the server issue mentioned earlier, Service Mode-based lobbies could be run on P2P connections. This would have benefits and downsides.

    Benefits:
    • Since there are no servers, it would be cheaper for DTG.
    • Because the lobbies are controlled by a host, it wouldn't need reworking the timetables for it to work, and any weather or time of day could be set by the host.
    • Players could do whatever they want to, as it is not under DTG's control. You could play as a driver, ride trains with your friends, pretend to be a guard (insert guard mode request here), or just watch the world go by. And because you wouldn't be sabotaging other people (who aren't willing), you could have a bit of fun breaking the game as well.
    • There would be tolerance for delays.
    Downsides:
    • Connections for all players in the lobby would depend on the host's.
    • There would be a hard limit for players in a lobby, so the MOOR approach above wouldn't be possible here.
    • (insert online security/IP masking concern here)
    Despite the downsides, this is actually my preferred option for a multiplayer mode. My vision of multiplayer is just me driving with one or two friends sat in the cab while we chat about our lives and thoughts. But of course, my vision won't be the vision for everybody else. I imagine that the Gran Turismo method would work - surprise, surprise - like Gran Turismo. There would be a list of all the public lobbies available to join, and you'd be able to enter a password of sorts to access a private session.

    4 - PRIVATE SERVERS (UNTURNED/MINECRAFT REALMS)
    Unturned, a free multiplayer game for PC, allows players to use a private server to play the game with their friends by themselves. Minecraft provides the Realms service, a broken and completely unusable subscription service that supposedly allows players to upload their worlds and use them as servers, where up to ten players can play together, even without a host being present. That said, nobody has seen it working, so I can't confirm this. As an extension of the P2P suggestion above, it could be useful for players to buy their own servers, either as a one-time purchase (my preferred option) or as a subscription service. This would cover DTG's costs.

    The private server would likely work like the Gran Turismo suggestion above, but would not need a host, so each player can play individually. However, since the server could only apply to one route only, some problems might emerge. For example, what if the owner of the server wanted to change the route being played? For this reason, the Unturned/Minecraft approach would likely need a lot of thought put into it - and if DTG are going to put thought and effort into multiplayer, they might as well do the SCR approach, which would be more popular, especially if the mode was released as a standalone free game, like Call Of Duty: Warzone.


    In the end, I think the simplest option would be the Gran Turismo approach. It's my ideal option anyway, but it's worth noting that while the others would require significant work to get working, including major reworks of how the game works, the GT approach wouldn't. Therefore it is an ideal 'baby step' for DTG. Perhaps in the future they could think of adding the other options as well, but to be honest the GT option is the one I'd play and enjoy the most.


    With all of these suggestions, I must stress the importance of crossplay. It would be difficult to add, and may require the downgrading of timetables in multiplayer to allow for parity between platforms, but would make the feature a lot more useful. Currently everybody I know who plays TSW2 plays it on PC, but I play on PS4 - it would be very disappointing if I couldn't play with them.

    Anyway, if you have any ideas for multiplayer, feel free to put them here. Hopefully this thread will become a guide for DTG to see what players want from multiplayer, a feature that's closer to vapourware than anything else at this point.
     
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  2. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    • trainsimplayer has a good thread about this
    [/QUOTE]
     
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  3. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    DTG is not the time for multiplayer games. I think the biggest obstacle to making multiplayer online games is the increase in production costs.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the sticking point is what would the players be doing rather than the mechanics of getting two machines talking
    You also don't seem to have addressed how you would get a PS4 and an Xbox playing together (everything has to work the same, remember)
     
  5. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for making this thread. Multiplayer is the feature that would make TSW2 the principal modern train sim in gaming by making it social and attracting people who like playing with friends or want to interact with other people in railway surroundings they are enthusiastic about, and those who understand how even just the presence of other people instead of AI around them would make that setting - and the game - alive.

    For me personally, it is the most desired addition beside Japanese routes, and I become frustrated to no end when I see malicious and damaging attempts by some people to torpedo chances of DtG actually implementing it, by coming up with subjective reasons why it should not be done, as if they would lose their ability to keep playing singleplayer if MP was made. And then you see the harmful outcomes of that vocal "I don't like MP so it shouldn't be done" opposition in DtG's stances, e.g. when they mentioned in the article on their most recent poll that MP is requested by a lot of people but "the serious-minded players" don't want it - as if the ones who do want it are not serious-minded or don't have serious reasons for it. How on earth did we get here from DtG's addition of MP to the official page as a feature they see as part of their development plans?

    If MP keeps getting postponed indefinitely because of some people's active efforts to be destructive, it will be an example of a toxic segment in playerbase for a game that you would think would have no reason to have toxicity in it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
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  6. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Not that I don't want multiplayer, but the biggest problem is moderation; having people moderate every server 24/7 to stop people mucking about and delaying the timetable isn't practical. The moment someone decides to start speeding, trying to crash into other trains, driving too slowly or simply going afk would result in all the other players having subsequent delays. This would ruin the fun for those looking to take things somewhat seriously and they would just revert back to single player, leaving multiplayer as possibly a feature for those just looking to mess about.

    The best and easiest solution to integrate some form of multiplayer for now would be to create a shared drive mode, whereby friends are invited to join a private session and can play roles of driver, guard, possibly as passengers too, switching roles by changing seats. That way players self moderate by entrusting those who they invite.
     
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  7. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Beside that solution you offer, I also want to mention that the issue of troublemakers is often being overblown by some people on the forums in their arguments against MP. Any and every simulation/sim-like game has to face that challenge, but most have managed to create ecosystems that facilitate the kind of community that does not have to spend its entire time on combating harmful behaviour, and do so without the need for 24/7 moderation. Drivers who deliberately crash into people on iRacing or pilots who bomb own targets or teamkill in Il-2/DCS are never a predominant reality there - you only need mods to check reports and hand out bans, and eventually a constructive ecosystem begins to form. Even in ETS2, where road blocking and collisions are more of an issue, people actively play MP and enjoy it, because there are community mods who watch action and hand timeouts to those messing with others' experience. I actually think that creates an additional opportunity in TSW2, where people from the community fill - and enjoy - the role of observing train traffic and taking measures against both intentional and accidental issues. And then there are technical mechanics the devs can create to fix unfortunate moments - e.g. if someone is not being malicious but has to go AFK, their train could be rendered out when they bring up the ESC menu, and it can't be rendered back in as long as there's another train in that position+certain distance behind.

    At the end of the day, and all things considered, I think the benefits of having a sim with social gameplay - which is what ensures longevity for games and, in case of rail sims, makes one stand out from the rest - significantly outweigh the potential risk for destructive behaviour that can then be dealt with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What has this got to do with potential implementations of multiplayer? ie how it's done
    All you've done is push your own agenda on a post that specifically asks people not to do so. That's as bad as a load of people coming on saying they don't want something
     
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  9. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    The OP asked people not to post comments that talk about why MP should not be done, and my post was the opposite of that - the second part of it just expanded on personal impressions around MP discussions. And my second post actually mentions things like community moderation and an AFK mechanic that could be part of "potential implementations of multiplayer".

    Now, if you can spare me more of this disingenuous misrepresentation of what has happened here, we might avoid actual off-topics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
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  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nope

    Implementation, as in how it should work, not "I want it to do something I can do in numerous other ways such as talking to my mates when doing something in game that doesn't have talking to my mates in it"

    Funny enough, talking to my mates would be immersion breaking and is one reason I would not want MP in game. Too many muppets talking about anything other than railway operations (same as happens in just about every other implementation of MP I can mention), but that's not what the OP wanted either.
     
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  11. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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  12. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    With train simulators the situation is more difficult, you're stuck on a track with no way to easily avoid someone in front of you, which then causes a knock-on effect to the player behind etc. The worse situation would be if someone were to stop on a single line track, then every service would eventually have to stop until the culprit clears the line (which I can't exactly see as very enjoyable waiting for however long for other people to sort themselves out). At least with other simulators you have movement in more than one axis giving possibility to avoid. There's also the issue of SPADs, do you allow trains to SPAD and continue or do they automatically get deleted? There's a lot of complexity to get right before multiplayer in that sense would work smoothly. I can see the appeal that some might want to muck around (there's plenty of youtubers out there who like that stuff), but I can't help but think encouraging that doesn't really fit in with the genre and the image of TSW2, you're better off playing something else like derail valley.
     
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  13. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    True, however - as long as that isn't an overly frequent occurrence - that also simulates RL circumstances in a way, doesn't it?



    I think there would be no complaints against the latter, even if it is unrealistic. Everyone would understand that that is a reasonable approach.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I guess the benefit to this is that not every run would be a green light special.
    With MP there could also be the option of ignoring other player trains, as in everyone's running the same train on the same timetable so the differences would be how each acts and interacts with the AI rather than each other. That way no matter how many muppets you get they don't spoil it for everyone else.
    Highest points wins sort of thing
     
  15. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    Forgot I made that thread :)

    I think I might spend some time and recreate that. Hint. Hint.
     
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  16. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I have an idea for a potential feature. In Portal 2's excellent co-op mode, you have the 'ping tool' which lets you highlight a location or object to your teammate for them to know what to do. For example, telling them where to stand to catch a cube. This could be useful in TSW, so when my friend is teaching me how PZB works, he can highlight which lever I need to pull to make me not have a mental breakdown keep the train running smoothly.
    Crossplay isn't a difficult thing to do overall and has been done by many developers both big and small. The only difference between the versions (primarily) is graphics, and therefore the only thing DTG would need to do is some sort of way of connecting players on different platforms. They could do it the Call Of Duty way, where players create an external account that links to their existing PSN/Steam/Xbox Live/Epic accounts and can add DTG friends to play with. They could also do it the No Man's Sky way, which does away with accounts and just gives every player a friend code - this is a lot simpler for DTG but could be annoying if you play TSW on multiple platforms.
    I don't think it is impractical. Stepford County Railway (a free game made by only a handful of people) had moderators who can kick players for misbehaving. The game also auto-kicks you if you pass a red signal or miss three stations in a row.

    While more complex, DTG could also have an AI helper that automatically takes control of slow players to help them get back on time. Most of this feature already exists - just look at the route introduction tutorials, where the game mostly plays itself.
    This is likely the easiest way for DTG to add multiplayer and my personal favourite. I think they have done something like this before in Train Simulator - there was a YouTube video on their channel which showed very basic multiplayer in Train Simulator.
    I think you might be taking things a bit too seriously. Chatting to your friends in the cab may very well be unrealistic, but remember that this is a game. And remember that if you don't like talking to your friends, you don't have to. I didn't even suggest in-game voice chat. And I also didn't suggest that multiplayer was a forced mode, but I think you have forgotten that.
    Don't be a killjoy. There is a huge difference between me playing GTA while on call to someone else playing GTA on their own, and both of us being in GTA Online together. The possibilities are a lot more open. Let's say I'm in the cab of the train and I realise I forgot to turn on the tail lights at the other end. It's a common occurrence with how Service Mode works, but with this, I could send my friend (who has been talking about his recent engagement) to the back of the train to turn it on, while I negotiate a tricky approach to a station. Job done. And when my friend (who is not engaged before you congratulate him) and I are having a look at the latest DLC, being in the same room and knowing where he is and what he's looking at is more useful than just a Discord video feed.
     
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  17. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I've changed my opinion on MP since some months (maybe 1 year?) ago, and I would support it now.

    I would expect the only way for MP to happen is the Grand Turismo way, mainly because of the Layering/Substituion problem (let's say I do a service on HRR with the BR155, everyone in my session should have HRR, the freight layer - I believe MSB or RSN AND the BR155), having a host select what DLCs are "allowed" would solve a lot of problems IMO, but I would still like if different players drove different trains following the actual timetable (or even a custom scenario), this would make sure that the gameplay remains fairly similar, but adds human error and unpredictability in timetable mode.

    Also something I'd love further down the line is a big server (of some of the most "complete" routes - the ones that don't have a ton of layering - like MSB, RSN, BRD) with a human dispatcher.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  18. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    For me, any kind of possible interaction between players would be a great addition. Freight with conductor ops and dispatching both are dream come true :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. eire007

    eire007 Active Member

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    Keep dreaming. They can’t even get single player right.
     
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  20. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    It has been done before.
     
  21. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Gran Turismo's solution to DLC (in GT5, the only GT game with paid DLC that added content to the game) was to include all of it on the disc. That's why newer save game editors actually let you activate the DLC without owning it (you can't get it anymore either), but of course this wouldn't really work in TSW, or we'd have 300GB installations in no time.
    I can't tell if this is jokey or serious, so I'm going to pretend it's jokey.
     
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  22. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    It was the first thing I thought after playing a few days: why is there no multiplayer? But once you flesh out the idea it doesn't make much sense. Being a passenger on a train might be fun for a while but if this game was called passenger simulator I probably never would have bought the game. The majority of people who will want to play as a driver. You probably will have to overload the passenger role with so much perks before you have more people that want to play as passenger.

    It would become enjoyable for multiplayer if you can do a hold up on a train but I don't think people playing as driver will think that is enjoyable
     
  23. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    what would the gamemodes be, i dont see to many MP Suggestions talk about it, i could see like Head to Head racing, Sandboxes, CoOp
     
  24. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    In almost every MP thread you can see ideas for a lot of different modes beside "being a passenger". When I think of MP in TSW2, passenger mode is the very last thing that comes to mind.
     
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  25. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I suggested this in the first post; DTG could add two-player scenarios to the game for multiplayer. I have some ideas:
    • One player assembles a freight train with a shunter, while the other brings the freight locomotive for the onward journey.
    • <insert guard mode suggestion>
    • A shunting scenario where one player drives and the other sets the points.
    • A player drives half of the journey and the other takes over for the rest of it.
    • Two players work together to get a faulty wagon out of a freight consist.
    • Two players communicate to get up the hill on MSB with a banking locomotive.
    • The remote working systems in a US freight train have broken, so both players have to communicate with each other to drive the train, with both being at opposite ends of the train.
    There are certainly more possibilities than just being a passenger...
     
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  26. Illegal Prime

    Illegal Prime Member

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    I know Run8 has multiplayer, and their playerbase loves to flaunt it. Any Run8 players care to shed some light on the MP there?
     
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  27. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I don't like to bump threads, but a recent article on Dovetail Live shows that Bassmaster 2022 will be receiving crossplay and multiple multiplayer modes. I'm not sure if previous DTG fishing games had online multiplayer, but considering there's an entire article about it, Dovetail seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on it. Euro Fishing was considered by Dovetail to be a practice run for the Unreal Engine... So could Bassmaster Royale be a practice run for TSW2 multiplayer?
     
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  28. Asheix

    Asheix Member

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    I don't see multiplayer coming to TSW anytime soon, if at all. But if they were to do it, I would think the best way would be to limit the number of players on a server to 1-4. I believe player limitations would prevent the risk of trolls going onto the game to crash into other players for YouTube likes.

    If they were to implement a guard/ conductor mechanic into the game, this could add a new layer to the game overall. Then they could develop a game mode that allows you to create your own rail company, timetables, purchase rolling stock, maintain stations etc. It would give a great purpose to a multiplayer experience instead of driving trains back and forth for hours to gain nothing but action points.
     
  29. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Member

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    I don't think there will ever be any really new features from DTG. DTG has no competition, hence; So why should DTG worry about the future? Apart from track construction and train production, DTG can do nothing. Which doesn't have to be bad.

    However, if you have no competition, you don't have to deliver anything in the end. In keeping with the
    DTG motto, "What others don't have, we don't have either. After all, nobody misses it."

    Let's take the Ebula system, which existed in the MSTS over 15 years ago. Now supposed to be absolutely impossible to install. Or take decades to develop. And the next year we will work on roles (see last survey, how great the desire for MP / features is), probably none of us believes in it. Or only when a new team is introduced the: "Future Feature (FF)"

    DTG creates endless construction sites for itself, it goes without saying that with the timetable and passengers it was probably a necessary step to bring in more "dynamic" things, which one can expect "big" in the next few years, I really doubt - what is very, very unfortunate.
     
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  30. moczs_65

    moczs_65 Active Member

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    I don't like your idea when you said :
    The game would sucks if players have to. Seeing "Unlock 30 TSW Coins to unlock DB BR 406" is very bad for TSW for my opinion. Why spend virtual money on trains when you already have those. If the game simulate a railway enterprise, ok. But actually it doesn't so it's very very useless.
    Also for multiplayer mode, like AirbourneAlex said, troublemakers would eventually make people frustrated. Multiplayer is interesting but shall we enjoy this mode if he is out ? I also think DTG may increase prices if this have to come one day. Such a game mode would be very complicated to add on TSW series.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  31. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Can someone explain again what TSW Online would be? I still fail to see any useful gameplay with TSW Online. Even the fun part already got taken out of the gameplay before TSW Online even reached the drawing board. What else is there to do if you can't even crash into others for Youtube likes? :D
     
  32. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Member

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    Take a look at the mode of BusSimulator21 - it is relatively simple and yet very effective.

    There it is so that, if you want, you can end the schedule at any time by pressing "C", a few seconds later the AI takes over automatically.

    This means that even if a player goes for a quick drink, he or she could get up briefly, and after 10-200 seconds the AI would then automatically take over the journey.

    As soon as you are back, you can continue driving independently. I mean, Bus Simulator 21 showed how it works, and really problem-free. It is hard to understand why DTG is so reluctant to do this.

    With this system from BusSimulator21 it would be completely irrelevant whether someone trolls extra or not. As soon as no button has been pressed for 1-2 minutes, the AI takes over automatically. A

    nd only when you have unlocked the train for yourself again, you continue to drive yourself. Add a kick / ban button and you're done. The same system could take over 1 to 1 for TSW2.

    As a teammate, you can easily swap roles.
     
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  33. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    With how Controversal Multiplayer is at this point, I would say it is in the ranks along with the PC editor, the Big Announcement from 2018, the BRD airport branch, the Class 313, among other things
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well in a survey a few months ago, multiplayer wasn't one of the options on the list because apparently it's one of the most requested features for Train Sim World so clearly multiplayer is something that a majority of players including myself want. Hopefully dtg can implement it in the game in the future. Simrail 2021 will have multiplayer when that game releases
     
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  35. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    If I got a pound for every time SimRail comes up in a Competion, I would be richer then Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates combined
     
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  36. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    How is multiplayer something the majority wants? I thought I belonged to the majority and I don't need multiplayer for this game. Give me a fully polished single player first.

    I had a look at bus simulator multiplayer and again have to ask where is the gameplay? Drive behind another bus? really? Play as driver and ticket guy? Really? I saw a demo of a guy explaining bus simulator and all I saw was a demo of high tech father and son bonding exercises. He was demoing it with his little kid. Sure that made sense. It really made sense to me but take the kid out of the demo and you are left with no fun at all.

    I must admit when I first looked at TSW I was like "Driving a train? That's all? Really?" So I might change my mind but till then I'm part of the loud minority who doesn't want DTG to waste their time on a babysit mode for TSW2
     
  37. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what exactly 'fully polished' means for particular people, but nobody from the multiplayer enthusiasts has asked DtG to develop it before a reasonable polish, and they are not developing it today. On the other hand, they have themselves revealed it is in their plans, so both the devs and all the players who have made MP one of the most suggested features see it as enhancing TSW experience by a lot.

    WRT what the gameplay would be, this and other threads have suggested a myriad of different modes.
     
  38. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Yup I was referred to bus simulator as an example and it looks silly :D
     
  39. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    Imo they could have a look to how f.e. SimRail did it and take some idea's from it
     
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  40. JellyScrub

    JellyScrub Member

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    What was the 2018 announcement?
     
  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    TSW for consoles I believe
     
  42. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Yes, really. They stated when this year's survey was first announced that multiplayer is consistently the most voted for new feature, and by a significant margin.

    And also, Bus Simulator is really fun. It's definitely worth a play, although you might not like it if you don't like management games since a large amount of the gameplay is setting up lines and managing staff.
     
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  43. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Nope. You gonna need another pitch to convince me. I like managements games but multiplayer in managementsgames?
     
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  44. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Multiplayer in management games isn't at all uncommon. SimCity 2013 was built around it, for example. I haven't played Bus Simulator multiplayer, but from what I've heard the host is the company manager (as you would be in singleplayer) and all other players are drivers working for you. I believe that because the multiplayer is run on servers (I'm not sure about this though) that drivers can play any time so the company can make money while the host sleeps. I'll have to try it though to learn more, so I'll have to get the latest one which I think has crossplay.

    As for singleplayer, the gameplay goes a bit like this:
    1. Receive task from the local government or another entity.
    2. Design lines to fit the specification.
    3. Drive each line to establish it and hire drivers and buy buses to run the service.
    4. Complete task and repeat.
    Every time you drive a week passes and you get all of the money from your services. At the start you can't afford much so you don't get much money in return, but as you expand you can have more services and therefore more money. It's a very nice difficulty/grind curve in my opinion. The game is repetitive but a lot of fun because you always have to evaluate past lines. For example, one task might need you to develop a line between town A and B, but the next task needs one between A and C. Therefore, it may be better to edit the first line rather than make the first one. It's not for everybody but I find it fun.
     
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  45. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    That's a good pitch, I like the idea but I still fail to see the multiplayer aspect. It sounds like a perfect single player mode. I really don't want to sound like a troll or something. Just not seeing it.
     
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  46. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Member

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    Bus Simulator 21 is structured in such a way that the server is only there when the person who has the score is also online. However, it should not be a problem in 2021 to host public servers that are then permanently there.

    That would be a kind of competitive business. The company buys Route XY for a certain period of time (1-2 weeks), after which the line is re-auctioned. However, if Route XY cannot be served, you can supply it as a competitor.

    So let's assume you have bought Route X, but are not at the platform 10 minutes before departure (because you have to take another train, delay, etc.) then either AI or another company can take over the route. It is something like that, for example, the Bus Operation Simulator (add-on for Omsi2) or Lotus & Bus Simulator 21.

    Not rocket science either. Although I would really prefer the free world of BusSimulator21 as an MP for TSW2.

    You load the card once, other players can join. Either you get on the train of one player, take turns driving, let the AI run, or check tickets, technology, etc. I can already imagine, especially in times of Corona, that it can be pretty cool to just sit in a compartment with friends and talk while the landscape rushes past you.
     
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  47. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    A year or two ago I was running a Minecraft server for my friends which was a project to build a city. We were building a railway network to get around it and one of my ideas involved 'franchises' where each of us would 'run' a section of the route, deciding various aspects of it like the design of the stations and the routes the train would take. Perhaps TSW2 multiplayer could work a bit like that? This could be a good roleplaying mode for those interested, like how Stepford County Railway has different roles for different players, who can make decisions on how the virtual network is run.
     
  48. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that fast trains usually have a single seat in the cab.
    Could socialising be a safety hazard?

    Should Dtg trial multiplayer with an existing route or design a new route from scratch?
     
  49. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Generally they have a second seat. The 395 has one, albeit with a dreadful view. The HST has one that's really nice. The TGV also has one but right now you can't sit in it. With the ICE 3, you could get away with sitting in the passenger compartment. As for it being a virtual safety hazard, I could probably tell my friend to shut up when I reach a tricky section. He probably won't though. :D

    As for the trial, I discussed different routes in my first post. If it's just basic servers in timetable mode, they could just use existing routes. But if they want to go down the open multiplayer style, they'd need to develop a network to allow for varied gameplay. Currently only Riesa - Dresden fits the bill for that in the real-life route department. There are a load of suitable networks made by the community for TS though, like the brilliant Cresston route which is getting remastered, the Suburban Glasgow route, and North East England.
     
  50. JPS

    JPS New Member

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    The thing that you don't hear anyone, DTG or otherwise, talk about is that there is the simple fact that the TSW game engine can not handle enough physics to do multiplayer. They learned that early on, after wich it all became very quiet around multiplayer. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up, it's just not happening. Ever.

    As for 'most requested'... It might be the 'most vocally requested', but if you look at the Run8 servers or even the Trainz multiplayer ability, and you'd visit and try them frequently, you'd see and know that it's not as popular as many would think.... It's just one of those things people think they want and then when they get it it turns out to be a dud.

    At this point it sounds more like a baby crying 'I want it I want it I want it mehhhh' than anything else.
     
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