Funky lighting issues aside which I suspect will be fixed, I was happy with the way the new route looks and the trains are well modelled and sound accurate to me. For me one of the most important aspects of a route is an accurate and as realistic as possible timetable. I am disappointed with the DC lines timetable. There are several 90 minute gaps in the timetable. Why is this and is this how it will be shipped? I could accept the odd service missing, I am sure it happens in real life, but 90 minutes is a long gap. The AC lines timetable looks to be about right and the route seemed busy, certainly compared to my journey down to Euston last week. I am not yet at the point of reviewing whether I might just go for the German edition rather than the full deluxe edition but it has made me start to consider it.
Just to set some expectations here, there should be the following services on the Watford DC lines: 4tph between Euston and Watford Junction (710) 4tph between Queen's Park and Stonebridge Park (72 stock) 4tph between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone (72 stock) Each of the above would work out to about 150 services over a 17 hour day (5am to midnight), so we should see ~300 72 stock services and ~150 710 services, not including ECS or any additional working.
Maybe the lack of services is due to performance/memory issues? Would be great to have every service in but maybe the engine struggles. even on high end stuff. Shame if that is the case.
They removed freight from 8th generation consoles to improve performance. They can't really use that same excuse for lack of timetable services.
Also, layers are now toggleable so there's no performance excuse if the timetable has been built properly with separate layers for each service type. Except it hasn't, as shown in the stream.
Maybe but it would have made more sense to have had a half hourly service rather than random breaks for 90 minutes.
Based on these calculations if you exclude freight we should have around 830-ish services as opposed to 690. This assumes the only playable Avanti services are the ones that stop at Watford and/or Milton Keynes.
Can only assume it’s because the AI signaller couldn’t cope with DC trains every 15 minutes at Euston, but still seems unlikely.
Shocking that this is still an issue on the 5th or 6th rebrand of this game. Wasn’t this the excuse they used for the original Bakerloo timetable?
How many services go in and out of Victoria on BML, there seem to be *a lot* and that was a TSW2 release. It also looks like there are 15 minute interval services then just random gaps.
Other than sharing a small part of the bakerloo line the 710s run on completely seperate tracks to any of the other WCML trains, so there really shouldn't be any reason the dispatcher can't handle it - all it is is 8 trains running back and forth all day.
people talking about performance issues have forgotten how layers work. the difference between 1 and 1000 is minuscule, but the difference between 0 and 1 is huge. this is why on london commuter, 8th gen consoles didn’t get southeastern and hst layers, but still over 1000 playable services just for the 377. even one more layer, for example an AI 465 at london victoria, would probably crash an xbox one
But if the excuse is performance on lesser hardware, why have a period of 15 minute interval service, then the sudden gap of 90 minutes? Would be nice if someone from DTG could step in and explain the gaps in the DC timetable.
You Can delete Layers on low Space Setups I don’t accept a reduced Timetable for the Class 710, it has to be every 15 Minute a Train or it is a joke
As I mentioned in another thread, I have a theory that maybe we saw a "preview only" timetable with fewer services to make the performance of the faster services look better in the stream. I'm starting to worry that the Euston to Watford Junction section may be unplayable due to stuttering.
It would help if DTG would just address the timetable. Every thread that’s discussed it is just devolving into a back & forth about performance & platform flaming.
Right? Why cant they just say ANYTHING about the timetable to stop all the confusion, it's not doing any good for anything. If it's not finished then just say its not finished ???? The silence really is not a good look on this now we have seen the preview.
Probably because they are trying to figure out what can be done. I'm sure there were some "meetings" but probably no final decision. Then we will get the usual updates will come but no tumeline and not at release. And we will wait 6 months fo a proper timetable. I thought the AI for 1972 stick is light as well on the DC lines, no where near the 2021 timetable busyness.
I honestly don't know what must have been going on inside DTG Towers (though this looks to be a product of their fort in Scotland run by Rivet) with this one as they say themselves how popular and important Timetable mode is to the game, and so often it seems to be treated with such little care. I bloody bought Goblin the other day, for the purpose of layers here as I, stupidly, had the expectation they would add a good degree of busyness to the route, but now that has not even shaped out well.
If the timetable previewed in the live stream was a ‘work in progress’, DTG could have made that absolutely clear at some point in last 24-hours or so since the stream. One of two things will now happen: DTG will go crazy over the next couple of weeks bulking out the timetable & claim this was always their intention; or Will ignore all the negative feedback and pretend all is hunky-dory. Which one will it be I wonder?
Actually there is a third option. DTG will add the extra timetable services claiming they’ve listened very carefully to player feedback, when in actual fact, they were hoping no one would notice they’d only done the bare minimum on the timetable and were deeply surprised the community busted them so quickly and now can’t get away with not doing what they should have done from the very start.
I'm gonna personally go for this. but not until the 17th. i think theyll act as it was feedback from early access feedback players and theyre doing us a favour for us to please the a** lickers.
Paying AP for there Sounds, should be cheaper as traveling to Avanti for only Doing Stand up Sounds, and modified for weeks Fake Running sounds
Well if they add extra services, does it matter why? If they don't add them you'll use them as a stick to beat them with, if they do add them you will use it as a stick to beat them with. If they add them it will be obvious they took the feedback on board. I have moaned about the timetable but show some reason and balance! They haven't done the bare minimum! The AC lines section seemed pretty busy, maybe not the exact timetable but certainly most of it. The DC lines timetable isn't the bare minimum but has quite a few services missing. Bare minimum would probably be described as the passenger services on PFR. Personally I suspect that maybe the despatcher couldn't handle everything so they have took some out, but that is purely conjecture on my part.
In all honesty, if they add extra services it probably doesn’t matter. However, not to have added them in the first place is inexcusable. If it was a performance related issue, I’m sure they would have clarified that immediately - they’ve done so in the past.
I don't think we should expect anything to be clarified that quickly on a Friday after the stream. Give them some time at least. Alex's response on the other thread seems to be a holding response. I think some patience should be exercised and see what they come up with.
A big problem with the timetable is also, that all the services from the included trains 350,377/2and 72TS are in a single layer. All those services should be distributed over several layers. So either you have all those services on or off. You can't choose, as it is only a single layer. With the 390 and the 710, WCMLS has only 3 layers as seen in the preview stream. Compared what we saw in Gamescom videos for Frankfurt-Fulda, that is nothing. I haven't counted, but it felt like Frankfurt-Fulda had 50 layers. (As I said, not counted, but a LOT). Frankfurt-Fulda has a different layer for nearly each different service type (layer for RB34, layer for RB 46, ...). And then big new feature for TSW5 is the layer choosing. But how do you choose a layer to switch off, if the route only has 3 layers? WCMLS would need at least these separate layers: Class 710 on DC Line 72TS (maybe even in 2 layers, as they have different services) Freight 390 (maybe more layers even depending on service types?) 350 (maybe more layers depending on service types?) In my personal opinion, best would be to restart doing a completely new timetable with more separate layers, realistic times and off-world destinations and stop. (Yes that would take a lot of time, and would not be ready for release, but actually necessary for the gameplay variety we were promised in Direct and later on) Edit: I forgot to mention additional layers: RHTT (was a standard layer for TSW since its release) Railtours (maybe even Class 87 from JT?) Class 37/7 drags? Somehow this timetable does not feel to DTG (or Joe) standards. And from what I understand, Joe taught all the DTG staff how to do all those things, so how did we end up with this timetable?
Certainly DTG timetables recently have been pretty comprehensive. I wonder if routing trains into Euston has caused issues. It seems odd for them to miss services out on purpose unless they have rushed it, a bit like NYT I presume. Hopefully they will be taking the comments on board, however I can't see them doing anything to the timetable before release. I don't think we should expect a response that quickly though as they will presumably have to see what they can achieve, if anything before release.
Watch the stream. This is directly addressed, and its stated you can turn off individual locos from layers. The explanation was that even without DLC, a route (which wasn't specified) has up to/around (I forget which) 20 layers, as a layer is not just used to bring in content from other routes/locos, but within a route itself for other purposes
I've been watching the live traffic on this section of the line for a few days now - on average it looks like there are about 20 active trains on the MK-Euston section during daylight hours at least, with around half of them in the London area (i.e. Overground and Bakerloo). Screenshot 2024-08-31 At 10.37.04 by pogodoyle#7387 posted Aug 31, 2024 at 10:39 AM WCML London by pogodoyle#7387 posted Aug 31, 2024 at 10:40 AM This doesn't include services that have terminated or just been activated, nor any stock stabled along the way. My feeling from watching the stream is that, awful night lighting and passenger weirdness aside, the main problem with this route (for me - YMMV) is going to be the empty yards.
No, you cannot turn off individual locos, only layers. Please watch any video, where they show that function and you will see. You can't turn off substitutions, only layers. And as seen in the preview stream, WCMLS only has 3 layers: 390 710 base layer with 350, 377/2 and 72 TS
The look of Euston with the lighting seemed very rivet-y and that's my main concern. It also looked fairly similar to the first Glasgow Central (remaster) screenshot with the WIP lighting (the really high light/dark contrast) so I have a little hope. If Rivet are responsible for this though then I think it's time that DTG call it a day with asking Rivet for help.
I never mentioned WCML, I was referring to the system in general where Matt says, verbatim: "If you did this on East Coast Mainline, there'd be about 50 entries in this list, because Joe really spreads everything out across lots of different layers" So this implies it will differ by route. Why WCML has only one base layer I have no idea, but why would you want to turn off a loco/layer from the base route anyway?
The time table is a bit concerning! On ts I generally use the dc lines a lot more than the mainline. I've got a very bad feeling that the silence from dtg would suggest its gonna be the released timetable. I hope not!
Yes, this does seem to be the general consensus and agree it is a concern, not only for the fact of questionable quality, but also DTG knowing full well the flaws in Rivets route building and not then holding tighter reigns. With such an expansive timetable in real life this would have been perfect for Joe to have done a timetable for. Also, although I cannot stand Goblin, that is due to the types of services, the scenery and route building is very high quality which makes this even more of a shame.
There's 8 overground trains per hour Sunday service on the Watford line. So I think we may have some sort of revised rmt timetable?
I don’t think that’s fair to Matt tbh nor is that particularly constructive… He’s often engaged us in difficult conversations, see some of the threads regarding US content. He’s in the unenviable position of having to prioritize everyone’s questions, requests, problems, etc and juggling them with his company’s priorities Like I want to see him bump US freight higher up the priority list, some how some way, but it is what it is. I’m not happy about it but I have a lot of respect Matt coming into those threads to engage and explain the situation. Anyway; thanks to those who did provide constructive feedback on WCML, it’s seems like we may get some improvements. Hopefully timetable related, and hopefully pre-release, because I ain’t buying until it’s a finished product.
Unless ap said no. That's what happened with the 700 dc sounds so it could be the same reason here as well
It’s a Money thing if AP want Sell the Sounds or not. If the Price is Right, there a no issues to say no to DTG
