West Cornwall Local: Penzance - St. Austell & St Ives - The Definitive Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    Considering tonight's build didn't have the day 1 patch, I'm fairly happy with what I've seen and heard. It's not perfect, I think we'll all agree and some improvements to some scenary and sounds could be made in future. The revs are definitely on the fainter side compared to the rest of the train audio imo. The brakes sound pretty good though that's for sure. Hopefully the passengers falling into a 3rd dimension when boarding is fixed properly, I know Jasper mentioned that they were working on it/fixed it for release I think. I guess my only concern is the timetable and making sure all the services run on time giving you some setup time. This isn't a route I want to be rushing around. I'd like to enjoy my ice cream while driving this one, soaking up the nice scenery! (a decent step up by Rivet compared to previous releases).
     
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  2. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    When is the fix?
    I don’t know anything about it
     
  3. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    When it was announced, I was really looking forward to a route set in Cornwall and early 1990s sounded good because of the variety of passenger and freight traffic. As time has progressed and more information provided, I have become more and more despondent but couldn't imagine how they could not include the Paddington and inter-regional services operated by HSTs and class 47s. I know the route is called 'West Cornwall Local" but this is the main line from London to Penzance and will be completely unrealistic without HSTs. I think Jasper said they didn't include the HST because they don't stop at all the stations. Actually, all stopped at St Austell, Truro, Redruth, St Erth and Penznce and some at Camborne. The route itself looks very nice and the 150 looks good but I am just so disappointed about the missed opportunities on what could have been a really great route.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
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  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I can see a remodelled HST with Valenta engines coming as a DLC. It would be foolish not too given its iconic status and being a clear fan favourite.
     
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  5. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    So my initial thoughts are

    Scenery doesn’t look to bad
    Really liked beach but needs people
    Personally happy with sounds.
    Interesting route which I think will be chilled driving.
    I would like to see more traffic but I question the point of hst on a 70mph route and if it’s worth it

    i did note repeated platform textures which stood out due to uniformity of repetition.
    A slight busier timetable would be nice
    Dual carriageway was dead
    Didn’t see exhaust smoke go black under load
    Any animals in fields
    Class 37 horn sounds peculiar

    Jasper_Rivet thank you for stream . I think I’m getting my first rivet dlc now. Tagged so you’re aware of feedback thread :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  6. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Really? When is it going to release? Did they also fix the leaping train?
    I suspect they said so just to win over customers. The timetable fix, if it even exist, might come out next year...
     
  7. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I liked everything I saw, really impressed, it’s a line I know really well from holidaying down there. Regional Railways signage I loved.

    My only issue and it’s a big one is the 150 sounds, they are quiet. Notch 4 and 5 far too quiet and sound like Notch 1-2. You should hear a noticeable transmission change around 48mph.

    Not the bite and growl you’d expect from a Sprinter, put a 150 into Notch 7 and trust me it is loud and has some bite to it!
     
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  8. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    St Erth to St Ives
    After watching the preview, despite of all the criticism, I would have thought Rivet would have got the scenery right before releasing this route. It is really disgraceful and doesn’t do justice to a lovely scenic route

    Walkway down to station wrong at Carbis Bay the walkway to the st Ives side does not access the station platform in real life.

    Carbis Bay hotel missed out on the beach.

    St Ives Porthminster beach wrong Many buildings missed out

    St Ives Pedn olva hotel missed off above the rocks on Porthminster Beach.

    Both St Ives Harbour walls missed out.

    Buildings around the harbour completely wrong. Buildings on the hill on approach to St Ives different. Porthminster Hotel now St Ives Harbour Hotel missed out. Also West Cornwall Golf Course doesn’t look like a Golf Course and buildings randomly added that don’t exist in reality.

    Compare for yourself

    It is a pretty amateurish effort, a five year old could have done better. If I was working at Rivet, I’d be so embarrassed to bring this to the TSW community as if this is the best they can do to replicate a route how poor then are all the other routes already in the game.

    I am not going to add further criticism on Penzance to Truro. But you can judge from the video of the drivers eye view.

     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  9. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Well as it was Matt who said its just entered testing rather than rivet I am inclinded to believe it, no mention of the leaping train however.
     
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  10. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agree. The 150 has always struck me as a train that sounds more powerful than it actually is- it sounds quite feral when kicking it up into notch 7! It's a shame that this quality hasn't quite translated into this version of the 150.

    I wouldn't say the sounds are bad though. It sounds pretty good when idle and the brake squeal is spot on from what I heard. It's definitely not the train in TSW2 with the worst sounds, far from it.
     
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  11. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Seriously?
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It isn't "Hotel Sim World."
     
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  13. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

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    I like the look and feel of the route based on the stream, the changes made from the previous screens went a long way in my opinion. I had very low expectations based on Arosa but it moved from a 'no buy' to a yes as long as there arent major issues found after release.
     
  14. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Active Member

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    I have to say I am impressed with what I saw so far. I'll definitely wait for the stream next week which will hopefully be on PC and on the build with the day 1 patch, so I can get an idea of what it will be like on a pc.

    It was nice to see that the level crossings are animated and overall I found the scenery was good. I mostly drive from the cab view so from what I could see it appeared as though the scenery looked really believable from the driver/passenger's eye view.

    I really like the look of the 150 and the 37, I have models of each of these trains in the liveries included with the route and it's nice to see them in game. In terms of sound, I think it would be nice if the 150 engine revving sound was a little louder, although it was hard to get a complete picture when Matt turned the sound down so we could hear them talking.

    This looks like a certain purchase for me, I definitely feel like Rivet has earned the price of this DLC with their efforts on the route and the trains. Well done to you Rivet, keep up the good work :)
     
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  15. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Adds another dynamic to the game for me. Its something I enjoy doing
     
  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting seeing the hotel comments. I'm a stickler for detail (but only detail I know) so to be honest that element didn't bother me . I think Truro cathedral too, I wouldn't have known without Jasper mentioning.

    Personally I can see there has been some work go on from the "uh oh" screenshots a few weeks ago. The route does look empty in places where I'd expect (beach) but again I don't know for sure how busy it is but I guess I can swallow that one for now.

    I remember these trains so it'll be nice to see it and run it a bit.

    I think JD did a good job of asking some difficult questions for a change, seemed to try and soften a few of them with waffle but actually I thought he did really good in pressing the rivet concerns button so fair play and nice work. The accountability was really refreshing to see.

    I hope we do get more layers, but I think the likelihood may be slim in that they said it's a self contained route and with it being another Uk route in a different time period I think it will likely be a passenger loco dlc.

    I still hope we get a few more Uk dlc from current day that start slotting in to each other (coughs ECML - kgx to pbo , taking that one to the suggestions forum doctor again) :cool:

    STREAM QUESTION PLEASE - Going back to external sterility of route, in the same way passengers go through a busy curve will rush hour passenger be added and could the beaches go through a similar busy curve but on a seasonal basis. Busy in summer with static or moving people etc
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  17. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Yeah, 1000. Not the current 330 or whatever it currently stands at
     
  18. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    the layering potential of the Class 150 must be massive for future routes
     
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  19. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    solicitr, Rivet have worked hard to replicate the Station buildings and as this is a holiday resort, I would have hoped they would have worked hard to insert the Hotels and other buildings that back on to the railway line. This design is no better than a Hornby model railway. Watching the Just Trains building stream the JT team go to incredible lengths to get all the buildings on and close to the line as accurately as possible. Their routes are worth buying and value for money. Rivet have made this extension look like a joke as it looks very amateurish in huge parts. I have known this area most of my life and it looks disgraceful!!

    If I had worked on this route, it would have been a labour of love to faithfully create it as accurately as it can be. It’s a beautiful scenic line and deserved to have been recreated properly and professionally.

    The buildings surrounding St. Ives Station to help Rivet with their design l.
    B256A510-5860-4676-8EDA-05E1DA9BC5F8.jpeg 60E968BD-878E-49C0-9142-2C117E6E06B4.jpeg
    1990s Porthminster Hotel now St. Ives Harbour Hotel.
    398CA786-A5BA-4048-AC3F-0D7E56FEEA81.jpeg
    Looking from St. Ives Station which shows the buildings in front in the 90s and the buildings on Porthminster beach
    4491A8C6-9C8E-473B-902A-30A95CB01185.jpeg
    Portminster Beach buildings
    D0E815C4-9C0E-4F8C-BCDB-EB3F43FDED39.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m just watching a just trains stream to see and you’re right they do seem to but I “guess” we’re not comparing apples with apples. I’d envisage that assets use a lot more memory and perhaps are longer to create too in tsw

    I have a couple of train sim routes and they do look nice in some instances but I come back to tsw as I prefer the look. The thing we need to consider is ts is a 10year old game, assets galore about. If we’re (and Im personally not) hung up on how the routes are better we need to stay there , if however we like TSW we need to consider putting comparison of the two to bed and let TSW continue to evolve and grow its asset library.

    I do agree more details would be nice in places but I just think comparing the two is too different
     
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  21. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a bit too harsh. Are Just Trains building things for TSW? Pretty sure it's an entirely different game engine. I understand its not the spitting image of what's there but to say its disgraceful is quite insulting to the research and and work gone into this. But if you think you can do better (because apparently to you a 5 year old can do better) impress us and join DTG/Rivet. I'm sure they'll be keen to see your skills and expertise in action :)
     
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  22. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I definitely think the 150 will appear in more routes in the future. Even in the present day they're pretty common. They're still in use on branches in Devon and Cornwall, and they're also very common in Wales and the North.
     
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  23. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    Really!!!!!!!
    Just at Par, their Cornish Main Line 'accuracy' is a joke. A generic white building for the Methodist Church at 5 bridges which sits about 20 feet from the line. Flat roof concrete buildings (again by 5 bridges) where 30's detached stone houses should be. St Blazey yard commercial units nothing like reality with a 40 ton arctic parked which would never have got in there as the roads are too narrow.
    Snowlands caravan park just randomly dotted with caravans and an industrial warehouse added to the site where the old farmhouse sits.

    Although I've given up on TSW for various reasons, I thought the stream showcased the route in quite a good light.
     
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  24. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Tsw is the next generation. Shorter routes due to more detail. I didnt see that last night.
     
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  25. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    agreed sounds are good but they are quiet, the 150 is a loud train standing in Cardiff central on platform 6 when 2 depart at the same time on 7 and 8 and it’s all you can hear. drivers often go straight to notch 7 in the dry on the 70 mph sections in Cornwall and it sounds like a beast irl. transmission change at 48 is very noticeable irl so think rivet just need to increase the volumes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  26. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    Gorgeous looking route and it shows Rivet took notes from Arosa complaints, particularly about scenery. Yes, it could be more detailed around some of the more populated regions but it's worth mentioning they modelled it as it was in the 90's. Some comments in this thread are pointing out missing infrastructure that maybe simply wasn't yet built at the time.
     
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  27. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    What about the buildings that are on the route. Placed in the middle of green plains? You like it thats great. Im not so impressed. There are time constraints etc, ofcourse, but some things strike me as a labour of love ie Meissen branch. This screams business.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  28. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Member

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    I like what I have seen from the route in last night's stream.
    Remodelled HST with Valenta engine DLC would be a cherry on the cake.
     
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  29. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Interesting that the route seemed entirely long welded rail. I can confirm that during the 90's, this was not the case, a lot of it was jointed and I think the St Ives branch still has bullhead rail in parts or did have until around 2012.
     
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  30. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Penzance 1990 8AFB7DA5-B0B1-4D11-A87A-A3E62B4D77A0.jpeg
    F6F3C185-B267-4B16-B7B4-0A9C83874D5D.jpeg
    Picture above is St Ives which shows the harbour walls and the Pedn Olva hotel.

    I maybe critical on Rivet’s route design resembling reality, but I do congratulate them on their exceptional work on the locomotives, wagons, sounds and Station designs especially the inside of Penzance which looks gorgeous.

    Rivet just need to work harder with St Ives, Carbis Bay, Penzance, St Michael’s mount and Truro Cathedral. Get those right and the route would be awesome. I have added some images for Rivet from the 90s

    Carbis Bay Hotel
    5709F111-EBFD-4443-B493-4D9008C57049.jpeg

    St Michaels Mount
    DAB7E2C5-F5EE-4696-8959-DFB5D914AF7F.jpeg

    Truro Cathedral
    33583C92-E50D-4B35-9CBF-1018F535D4FA.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  31. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    I made this observation on the BR187/1938 Stock stream on Thursday. It seems as though Rivet mix their game sound to be quieter overall than the DTG team. I'll try to find out if there's a standard decibel level we aim for, because I suspect there isn't. Putting aside the varying quality and mixing style of individual trains/routes achieving a consistency in overall sound levels should be a challenge.
     
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  32. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    Also, as mentioned before.

    I'd say that 150 services amount to perhaps less than 50% of traffic on this part of the GWML. They're probably just the most common type of service- just.

    During the 90's you'd have :-

    158 services to Cardiff and Bristol.
    HST XC services in the Summer WTT to Newcastle, Aberdeen etc.
    HST GW services to Paddington
    Class 47 XC services to Birmingham
    Class 47 GW services to Padding, including the Cornish Rivera (sleeper)
    China Clay freight

    It would take a HST around 30 mins to make it to St Austell, maybe more as they generally did stop at St Erth, Truo, Redruth etc. Particularly the XC ones.

    I wouldn't expect to see all these of course, but I think the lack of other services is so far understated.

    This would be a day 1 purchase for me however, the thing is with these kind of routes, you just don't know what your in investing in do you. It could be shelved and never see any new DLC ever again or it could be the start of something brilliant. Who knows!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  33. james.caton

    james.caton New Member

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    If the HST can't be done they should have set the route to the late 1980s, at leased they could have used the stock from the Northern Trans Pennine route, the BR Blue Class 47, 45 and 101 with the MK1 and MK2 Stock, the railfreight class 20 also would have made the route more interesting. It would have been better if they did the TTA Fuel Tank instead of the Turbot wagon. Seeing Long Rock empty just looks bad.
     
  34. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I have a gut feeling theres more to this route than we realise. I cant imagine that with the extra development time there hasn't been someone ask "What can we add in the future to compliment (make more money from) it?

    If I was to speculate that's why the route got extended out and I think a minimum of one, perhaps two new trains will populate this in the future.
     
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  35. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    I agree, that is the only way with the Journey that give something to do
    Like the London trainset, I have 3 more run to do, and I will have done all except the collectible, which not all can be found done, and I would have no idea why then I would go back to it as there would be nothing to do there, and it is the same for all the trainset and even the new locomotive
     
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  36. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Jasper at Rivet. I have added some photos taken in the 90s to my two recent posts above to help you with your design. Ten photos in total. I hope these help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  37. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone else watching cab ride videos and looking at these pics and questioning themselves now as to whether it will be a day one job?

    if you look at end of this video I can’t help thinking it looks better in ts2021, people on the beach, the representation of village etc.

    what do you think?





    You can see the route in 1992, the class 43, and a bit more of the scenery. 5.38 into the route it’s right against the water, looks sketchy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  38. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    There are a couple of decent free efforts in TS workshop, that look more realistic than RIVETS. I do hope that RIVET will continue to work on the route after release and make it more realistic and get that Cornish feel to it.

    With all the tools at their disposal you’d think they will get it right. JD said on the preview he knows the route well and I am sure will have put forward his observations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  39. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this has been said before by other people ( I have mentioned it on Facebook ) but one of the massive oversight is the lack of that amazing iconic brake rub that the 150 has. Every time you go on one, it bellows at you. You CANNOT MISS IT in real life. If they really have sourced from AP the brake rub sounds should have been supplied so there’s no reason to exclude it. If it’s already there in the stream and I can’t hear it, it needs to be a thousand times louder and if it is isn’t there at all it needs to be implemented otherwise it is not an accurate representation


    Also the engine sounds and turbo whistle needs to be a bit louder at slower speeds. There needs to be a few seconds for the engines to rev up before the vehicle actually begins to move. This is one feature Armstrong Powerhouse got perfectly
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  40. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    They cannot release a route without track joint sounds surely ? ? ? That would be refund central !!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  41. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    Class 150 tweaks required:

    -Brake rub sounds when slowing
    -Moving off far too quick when departing
    -Sounds are too quiet and do not represent a class 150 correctly.
    -Door beeping sounds occur after doors are shut.
    -no turbo/whining sound when applying throttle or shutting off power (AP sounds depict this on their website)
    -Brake release/application sounds are wrong. (Listen to the class 314 on Cathcart and they represent the sound better.) I can add the sounds to this page of required to explain better..
    -When the loco increases in speed, I can tell you that it is far too quick. I would say on average it takes 7-8 seconds to hit 10 mph.
    - The flange sounds are missing and could represent the motion sounds and again improve immersion and feel of the loco.
    -When sitting or located in the passenger area of the train, there is a different sound depicting the engine from underneath the bodywork (near the chassis). Has this been implemented when moving?
    -AWS ping when approaching a caution is completely inaccurate, seems to have a caution followed by a 'clear'. (This should only sound when a signal is green ahead).

    Class 37

    - Horn, sounds awful. It doesn't have any sort of echo towards it.
    - When thrashing or applying power in quick succession, it slowly adds further power sounds and could be amended to give that sort of 'grunt'. I can send videos if required?
    - The loco's nose where the 'Domino' is located, needs to be lowered and I can provide pictures so it can be patched.
    -Brake rub sounds, feeling of movement could be used (even generic).

    These are crucial immersive and accurate requirements to ensure a sturdy and correct representation of the loco. I am sure within the next 3-4 days these could be looked at and a promise to patch issued/tested.

    I send suggestions to DTG/RIVET Games but they seem to get lost in the post or ignored.
    Please can my requests be considered and can a Developer or a representative of DTG/Rivet contact me to help?

    Finally, Any other forum poster/s, can you add to this information if you can advise of anything I have missed?
     
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  42. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree. Surely rivet should hear what the sounds they are working with are supposed to sound like and know they've missed the mark.
     
  43. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    This was noted in the stream and has apparently already been fixed.
     
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  44. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's sometimes better to directly message Matt or member of team when offering support from what they say in streams
     
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  45. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    How do I do this and I will get on to it now...
     
  46. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    Does anybody remember Thomson Interactive on TS. His 150 &156 were fantastic and the sounds were just so amazing. It feels like we are going back from the immersion perspective these days. I'm sure that guy was practically a 1 man band aswell?
     
  47. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. The TS version seems to have a bushier foilage along the line, which is nice, but it doesn't feel as vibrant and bright as the TSW version - which is a must for seaside scenery.

    Also, in the TS video you posted, somewhere towards the end you literally drive under a FLOATING DIRT ROAD. I suppose a bridge model is missing there or something, but it looks horrible.

    I do agree that the TSW version could also be improved with people on the beach and such, but I think it's pretty good looking. I wasn't interested in the route before, but after watching a bit of the preview stream and pictures of it, I'm getting kind of interested. Though I would like it if they improved the sounds before it, especially the missing flange squeal and joint sounds the people keep complaining about, as those are a must for me.
     
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  48. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    He did the 150 in association with Oovee, Oovee did the 156 on their own.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Thompson Interactive become Rivet?
     
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  49. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    just search his profile here trainsimmatt and direct message
     
  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well AP have Valenta sounds which could have been licensed and given DTG had no qualms about releasing the German 187 with incorrect sounds, I doubt they would worry terribly if a 1990s/early 2000s HST had MTU sounds. A reskin to InterCity Swallow and change the interior to red seats and cream walls on the existing 3D model would still be better than no HST.
     
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