West Cornwall Local: Penzance - St. Austell & St Ives - The Definitive Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just to put a question out there. Did anyone else think the 37 looked odd? When I first got in it I lowered the seat as it looked a funny view but to me (I may be wrong) it looked like the width of the train insides been squashed. I just found it proportionally odd.
     
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  2. ionutmineadaniel

    ionutmineadaniel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why but unfortunately you can't
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well after further reflection over breakfast I decided to refund. DTG and Rivet need to learn the hard way that they cannot get away with putting out poorly built and poorly tested/QA approved content like this. If (and it’s a big if) the route and Class 150 got a huge makeover and the major snags I and others already pointed out are addressed, I might reconsider buying at a vastly reduced price too. These add ons are not cheap and when you compare the effort that goes into making a map or other content for games like Snowrunner or ATS/ETS2, DTG should hang their heads in shame. It is absolutely ludicrous the day a new product comes out, we should be talking about what the Preservation Crew need to do with it!
     
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  4. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reviews, Rivet still can't make a proper transmission. Sad, really sad. Rivet will never learn, but at least I did: I didn't waste my money this time.
     
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  5. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    Well done. Voting with our wallets appears to be the only way DTG and developers creating DLC under their name as publisher will change and improve.

    The community wants to support the developers and for every new release to be a resounding success. However, the quality of releases is wildly inconsistent, with seemingly no concrete plan for how things will improve, or vision for the future.

    It really doesn't need to be this way, but it is.

    I'd welcome DTG taking time out from churning out new routes, to spend quality time sorting their processes, including but not limited to, quality control and 2nd / 3rd party development, and getting back to basics by addressing long-standing issues with the product.

    By doing so DTG will create a stable platform, which will improve confidence in the process and quality of each new release.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
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  6. BlackSkyuk

    BlackSkyuk Member

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  7. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know why none of the St Ives trains stop at Lelant Saltings?
     
  8. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    In 2019, the park & ride facilities at Lelant Saltings were closed and relocated to St. Erth after 40 years, essentially making the station useless. It is now only served by two “parliamentary trains” per day, one in each direction.
    I sure hope Rivet Games didn’t use a post-2019 timetable for the St. Ives brach, since the route is set in the 90s as far as I know! Pre-2019, Lelant Saltings was served by two trains per hour. This is all info from the station’s Wikipedia article.
     
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  9. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well , a lot of backlash on WCL and Rivet, seems I will wait finally on this one. I can live with not perfect sounds, or not the real tapestry but part of the iconic stations it'seems that there is only forest during most of the route. But I haven't see evrything.
    -So how is the route variety (i don't know the real one but if its boring IRL then it is necerrly boring here...)
    -And how is the nioght lightning ? No youtubers showed us how it looks at night, neither DTG....
     
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  10. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Lots of potential but unfortunately lots of bugs. Granted many routes start out in that state but this one has already supposedly been 90% sorted. It doesn’t sound like Rivet will be doing much to remedy that given the size of their team (according to last night’s stream). Luckily I had less than 2h of play, so regretfully refunded. :|
     
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  11. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    Someone needs to tell the NPC passengers as they still turn up waiting for a train!
     
  12. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    Haven't bought this route as yet, but the scenery looks nice to me (apart from the dark brown texture next to the sides of the track? - doesn't look great imo).

    Also, I don't think the signalling is working realistically again. Watched the stream and going into Truro the colour light distant was green, the following 2 semaphores were off(good) but the starter signal at Truro was on - which shouldn't be the case I believe. It only came off when the doors were closed, which is a bit of an immersion breaker really.

    I'm really hoping the next UK route will have improved signalling, It's starting to grate on me a bit in it's current state. I guess it's a hard job to code correctly, which is fair enough.
     
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  13. screamfan

    screamfan Member

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    Why Rivet uses low quality textures, it gives a really poor scenery, the trees and the water are decent but the rest of the textures are really low quality. It is a route released in 2021 and supposed to be next gen .. it is clearly not at the same level of Dresden or BML
     
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  14. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    If you look closely the AWS equipment is also from the FGW era. It's basically a FGW era unit in a 1993 skin.

    I speculated earlier that this was planned as a 2020 ish route but that they found it too difficult or costly to get GWR licences so backdated it without changing the detail of the 150s. That also explains the ridiculous decision not to include a HST - the most famous train on the route. (I'm guessing even Rivet would not attempt to give us a HST with the wrong engine, but in many ways including a 40 and 45 instead was a much more serious historical error).
     
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  15. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    That would explain things like the GWR green colored Clasd 150 on the advertisement poster in the interior of the train, or how someone pointed out above that one station doesn't get traffic in the timetable, even though it did so until 2019.
     
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  16. Vograx

    Vograx Member

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    I just finished the early morning express service taking mail to Penzance at 8:25 (3C24 in timetable).

    After parking and shutting down my Class 37 at the platform in Penzance I jumped out and planned to take over the 150 on the platform about to head out when, out of nowhere, a cute little 08 came driving down the track. I was wondering what he was up to so I kept watching him. He rolled up to the end of my mail train, coupled up with the railcars, uncoupled my Class 37 and then he pulled away with all the railcars and got them away from the station.

    That was just so awesome to watch :D I love it when the AI is doing little tasks like this.

    Here he comes!

    [​IMG]

    And rolling away :D
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I like the route. The scenery looks good and it has some nice details. The procedure Vograx describes (which you can do by yourself as well) is one of those nice additions. I do not know the region and that is always helpful. I guess you always will be disappointed if you know the real stuff.
     
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  18. Vograx

    Vograx Member

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    Small bug I think on a poster inside of the 150/2...

    upload_2021-11-5_15-32-2.png
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The biggest oops with the signalling that I may already have mentioned, is that the Signal protecting the entrance to the single line section at Ponsandane is actually beyond the points on the single line, not on the Down Main with a suitable overlap. That alone tells me the route was not properly beta/play tested by people who understand how signalling works. And I agree about the distant signals being off when an associated home or section signal is displaying a stop aspect.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
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  20. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet made a poster contest where people could suggest them for the cl.150 interior. Not sure if this is one of them, but even if so, with paint it could get fixed quickly.

    Somebody has reported this after the first cl.150 preview one month ago. Im surprised its still there.
     
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  21. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is mainly down to the direction of TrainSim-Matt and has saved this dlc.

    Bravo sir Matt, you have saved rivets bacon
     
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  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    That was picked up and not spoken of in the comments in one of the live streams.


    Another class 150 sound thing. Going up hill, 50 odd mph I'm in notch three at high revs. I decide to go up to Notch 7, no increase in revs, no change in sound where I would assume the diesel engine is loading up more. Very odd.
     
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  23. Vograx

    Vograx Member

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    Seems they mirrored the text on a fusebox attached to the easternmost train washing shed.

    upload_2021-11-5_17-12-28.png
     
  24. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    The more you look at this, the more problems you spot. Almost ALL the stone bridges are cloned, lack detail and don't even have retaining wings and parapets! Did they even travel on this line or look at a UK rail bridge?

    The loco hauled Mk2as are just as ridiculous - ever one I have seen lacks a brake coach! You couldn't operate the train like this. Who checks this stuff?

    And don't get me on the distant scenery - the houses are little more than identical boxes. I produced better stuff than this in Trainz a decade ago

    Really not impressed.
     
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  25. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    Additionally all the girder overbridges are identical clones too, despite being very varied in real life. They do have wings, although they are all parallel to the track and vertical - in real life they would fall over if built like that...

    I can see why this was pulled. I'm afraid I'm left with the conclusion that the unrealistic layers (45s, 47s, wrong coaching stock etc) were thrown at the route in the hope noone would then notice how poor it is as a representation of reality. It's a real step back for me and a travesty of one of the UK's great railways
     
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  26. BlackSkyuk

    BlackSkyuk Member

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    HST Passing Crossing on West Cornwall Local. This is from a new scenario i'm making.

     
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  27. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Guess what: the more you search, the more you will find. Works also with well created things.

    Minor mistakes like the text on this fusebox are to find in every route.

    Some people here would even find mistakes on the real world route. Im sure there is a "regional railways heritage society", which manage the books about wrong placed ballast stones in the cornwall area around the 90s. #sarcasm end#

    In my opinion the point of a community feedback should have impact on fixes and stuff like the wrong made physics etc.
    So if everybody takes out the microscope its just not helpful and a waste of ressources.
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't in truth put a freeware route out in that state.
    IMHO DTG should pull this from sale, refund everyone who hasn't already got their money back and take the thing back to the drawing board!
     
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  29. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    So apart from the fact the primary trains have the wrong sounds and the wrong physics, the layers are historical fantasies, passenger trains lack brake coaches, the coaches are wrong for the era, the scenery is crude and repetitive and the bridges look like something from a five year old's train set, it's a great route???

    These are not matters of detail, they are fundamental to a simulation.
     
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  30. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks that great !
    If only we had an editor to put all the locos, liveries, timetables and clutter needed even with no license, or correct the lacking sceneries, TSW would be so much better..
     
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  31. BlackSkyuk

    BlackSkyuk Member

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    I'v attached some pictures from the lastest HST scenario I'm making.
     

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  32. Bob12212

    Bob12212 Well-Known Member

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    Probably a reason why they don't want the community to have the editor;) (other than their official explanation)
     
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  33. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Its a neat little route to drive on. But honestly gets boring soon with lack of traffic on the route. Not sure, if this was the state of affairs in the 90s as well. Would have been fun running the HST on the route. The pacers itself is ok to drive on. The sounds are not good, especially when going over junctions. Other than that, once I have run through the scenarios, probably won't get back on the route again.
     
  34. simmo44

    simmo44 New Member

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    i forgot to say the guards panel doesn't even work on the 150
     
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  35. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    I'll vote with my wallet too and wait until the 10% discount as ended before I buy.
     
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  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Nor when I tested it, did it have any different viewpoints with the arrow keys, secondman side, head out etc.
     
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  37. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe your scenarios will save this ! Are the livery true to the era and region ? (sorry but UK rail companies are a litlle complicated for me...)
     
  38. BlackSkyuk

    BlackSkyuk Member

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    No, its the default livery from the "Great Western Express" addon. I don't think a livery has been made for the HST from the 80/90s'.
     
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  39. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Even at -10%, it will still be crap.
     
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  40. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well, i decided to do my part of testing of the route. So bought it. I have chance to live in UAE where things are chaeper, (cars, TSW addons...).
    And decided to compare the route from Truro to St Austell (the very same route that in DTG last stream but eastbound.) to real route :

    This record seems from 2017.
    Now of course it's 27 years after the situation of our DLC, so obviously things have changed somehow but still...

    Results : mostly it's the same, trackwise.
    I have no problems with aproximmative modelisation of Truro cathedral or other buildings.
    But, and this is not nitpicking and is clearly a big miss:
    - fields look like irregular sand patches, or mold or i don't know, bit not like proper square fields...
    -there is too much high trees, far too much. They prevent from seeing the scenery, villages, houses and those pesky fields. There are trees 90 to 95% of the ride, while on real route there is a lot of trees but often far shorter and you can clearly see the landscape...

    Dear guys at rivet, please bring a lumberjack, and cut off those trees !

    I have also inserted some pics to show the comparaison. Some shows good call, some other show misses. Hope this will help with decision. As in a cramped 150 you see only trees...
    Nouvelle image bitmap.jpg Nouvelle image bitmap (3).jpg Nouvelle image bitmap (4).jpg Nouvelle image bitmap (5).jpg Nouvelle image bitmap (8).jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
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  41. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    It's not that bad, judging by this comparison. Sure there are a bit more trees and they are higher, but that's not the end of the world.

    What I really dislike however is how at the places where it's just one track instead of two (I suppose the double track is a recent addition), they just left it all blank. Not even grass or anything. Either just really bad scenery building, or further proof that this was supposed to be a 2020 era route, but when they decided to go back in time, they just removed the double tracks and left it as is?
     
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  42. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well, the impression while in a 150 is that you drive in full forest all time (just like ik DTG stream) while in fact they are fields, villages behind to be seen. As for the double tracks I don't know for sure, but if I remember clearly they were removed, then put again IRL, maybe I'm wrong on this however, some otehr people will confirm.
     
  43. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Chacal for your thoughtful post.

    Whilst many of us who know the area have been disappointed, many of the posts here have been verging on the nasty.
    They expect perfect physics, perfect graphics and detail, perfect sounds, perfect operation, etc., all for the price of a couple of pints of beer,
    If you don't like it, like me, don't buy it, but don't believe you have to wage a war of attrition on Rivet.
    They have to make commercial choices.
    They'll either learn from this or turn to other projects elsewhere.

    I hope they stay as there's too few developers out there.
     
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  44. fezza

    fezza Active Member

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    But many of the mistakes aren't "commercial choices" they are just careless mistakes that could have been rectified by a few simple checks. Trains without brake coaches. Signals in the wrong place. Incorrect bridges. Incorrect rolling stock. Far too many trees and incorrect vegetation. Poor depictions of iconic buildings. Most of these errors could have been corrected simply by watching cab ride videos on YouTube or buying half a dozen standard railway reference works off Amazon. I want Rivet to succeed but they have to make an effort...
     
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  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Fezza, it's route building "101", as many of us who have been around this hobby for a while have learned. They obviously hoped people wouldn't notice looking out the original default train the 150, with its narrow forward view and no head out. I haven't seen or read anything particularly nasty reading these threads, only justified criticism from customers who will be paying up to £25 when it goes back to full price. If some like it, fair enough I respect that, but please let's not allow the old Stockholm Syndrome of give the devs a break creep in. It's not a piece of freeware, it's a supposed to be a professional studio level add on for a commercial product. Rivet and DTG need to be left in no uncertain terms this is unacceptable. You wouldn't cut a builder who did a sloppy job on your house or a garage on your car any slack, you'd expect them to get back and sort it out. Commercial software should be no different.
     
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  46. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I think I will swerve this now. Shame as it had potential being a decent era enough negative reports so I will save my cash for something else.
     
  47. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    What gets me, and this is true for a number of routes, is the near total lack of lineside clutter and paraphernalia. Look at any English trackage and you will see concrete cable troughing (sometimes straight, sometimes higgledy-piggledy), orange pipes between sleepers for track circuit cables, grey location boxes normally situated near signals and points, mileposts, and a whole host of permanent-way material lying around such as rails, sleepers, et cetera. Some routes have some of these, but routes like Local Cornwall have absolutely none. In addition there are many stretches of track missing the obligatory trackside fences, which are always present to protect the public.

    Edit: as we spend all our time near the track, this should be more of a priority, it really does add atmosphere and make the railway feel more living and real.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
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  48. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    To give a bit of context, this section of line was originally built as double track. Then in 1985 as a cost saving measure British Railways singled it, so in say 1990 it hadn't been lifted for all that long. You can see what it looked like at that time in real life from the picture I've attached from the Cornwall Railway Society. It looks about right to me.

    It was restored to double track in 2004.
     

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  49. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I see. Thanks, that was really helpful! It's nice to know that it's actually not unrelistic.
     
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    FPS FPS FPS, need to keep the gen 8 consoles from self combusting. I believe this is why we see less mess around the lines. Equally those trees are exactly as Rivet needed them. They're at just the right height and density to "smoke and mirror" away the distant scenery feedback from Arosa which hits FPS and performance again...
     
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