What's Your Opinion On The Tvl Preservation Update?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by dosto762, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, DTG did warn about that, and recommended players not go for new TVL medals until after today's patch.
     
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  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Why have the put the 3 car units back in? It just suggests that with any historic route, realism is a secondary concern. It really turns me off TSW, at least you can make TS1 as realistic as possible. TSW without any kind of decent scenario editor is very much as a disadvantage.
     
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  3. tygerways#2596

    tygerways#2596 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, okay, I must have missed that, not really paying attention to medals and stuff.
    But the praise for the track rendering remains.
     
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  4. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Because people requested it...
     
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  5. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    A vocal minority, those who saw this as a positive change and didn't feel the need to shout from the roof tops about it are now left short changed. Let's be honest the vast majority of players probably don't care either way and a sizeable number probably didn't even notice.

    Of all the things people have criticised DTG for recently, this is so down the list in terms of importance it's shocking it's been addressed so quickly while other issues are just ignored.
     
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  6. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    I cannot agree more. Maybe because it was somehow easy to fix when compared to other more important fixes.
     
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  7. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    This is my problem with the GWE, they set it in an era when they were transitioning from Diesels to Electric so DTG have confined themselves just to a few years if Realism is to be achieved :D. But if they had set the era before or after they would have a far larger range of Loco's to choose from, seemed a no brainer to me, oh well.
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    This is the problem then, some people start complaining and suddenly it is more important to keep them happy than provide something which is more realistic. Does it really matter if there was one coach less, it isn't as if the class 101 is costed per vehicle?!

    If they did something similar on a modern route there would be howls of derision and this forum would be full of complaints.
     
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  9. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Realism isn't a secondary concern, but players being happy is of course a primary concern, since it's the ultimate point of a successful game. In this case, players who liked the three-car setup spoke up and DTG listened.

    But DTG made it a choice, so I don't understand the problem. The three-car 101 is a livery option, and two cars is still the default; players who want realism can easily pretend the former doesn't exist, because they never have to see it.

    I'm not seeing the fail here.
     
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  10. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Even I do have to agree with this. Complaining on getting what it's fun, whether it's accurate or not to the real deal, is getting really ridiculous now.
    Honestly, these complaints nowadays are doing more harm than good at this point for when it comes to what is actually prototypical to the routes and locos, be it back in the hay days or the modern times, and what is more enjoyable for you no matter what, even if it's not real or not even supposed to be there in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I feel like I should pop in here since I was one of the people complaining. Let me say this first though: I’m not trying to start a fight and all opinions are equally valid.

    For me, the removal of the 3-car 101s was a bit of a kick in the teeth. I’m rather fond of the 3-car sets for the purely subjective reason that they feel more like a “proper” train than the 2-car sets to me. Consequently, the 3-car sets were one of the selling points that convinced me to get TVL. When Adam removed* the 3-car set, he removed one of the reasons I got TVL. What I was thinking was: “I paid for a 3-car 101 and now Adam took it away.”

    *: I know that the 3-car 101 wasn’t removed but with timetable mode being the main gameplay for TSW, removing it from the timetable is almost equivalent to removing it entirely.

    Again, not looking to start a fight. I absolutely get your position and would probably even feel the same way if this was a German DLC in which case I’d be a lot more knowledgeable about the prototype. Just trying to show the other side of the argument.
     
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  12. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

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    Just piping in here, the 3 car 101 are ONLY available on Saltburn runs, the 2 car 101 runs all Middlesbrough services plus the depot runs and a Darlington to Saltburn return service.
    I quite like that. Gives us a choice whether you want a 30ish minute trip or an hour long trip.
     
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  13. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather have what was actually there at the time.
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Even though i don't own tvl, I do understand the realism argument but hey who doesn't love a long train. The longer the train is the better ;)
     
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  15. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Well no clearly all opinions arent equally valid because DTG have confirmed that's prototypical accuracy isn't important in the game. Let's have the Jubilee doing local all station stopping services on spirit of steam and the 8F running local trip frieghts then.

    Let's stick the TGV on London Faversham to add variety, it doesn't matter that it's not accurate.

    Let's include Amtrak services on Sand Patch and HSC. Doesn't matter that we don't have a suitable loco, we can just use the ACS64 with the panto down. After all game play is more important than accuracy.

    This is the 2nd time in recent history where the views of the "mob" have resulted in a route accuracy being ruined. I didnt buy West Cornwall Local due to mixed eras.

    But like I said my views clearly don't matter to DTG because they've changed the 101 to appease the baying mob.
     
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  16. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    What would be nice is a feature to be able to choose what will appear. Unfortunatly there is so more important things to do before adding any feature...
     
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  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I would still just like to be able to finish Chopper And Change… :)
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well that would be the best option but as you say not one likely to be happening any time soon.
     
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  19. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I admit I am quite a borish purist when it comes to realism for British Railway and British Rail period routes as that is the period I have most studied and experienced much of it in when I was younger.

    For me a train simulator isn't just having a reasably realistic experience of driving trains, it is recreating as realistically as possible railway operations of the period the route is purported to represent, I realise that you can only go so far, of course.

    There was the big furore over the wrong colour ballast and in incorrect fence of SEHS that was fixed, quite rightly as it was unrealistic. However the wrong type of train or wrong formation of train on a route, something I would suggest is a bigger faux-pas, is apparently fine.

    The irony is that there is a route which would have had a mixture of two and three car sets and that is NTP, in fact there may well have still been four car Met-Camm sets around Leeds still in 1983, However, DTG provided just a two car set. How thorough are they in their research? Frankly they could have asked on the forums, I am sure amongst us enthusiasts there will usually be someone with knowledge of most subjects. They could have also done this when putting in the class 101 on the GWML.

    I like many aspects of TSW, the graphics, service mode and the ability to walk around but I am afraid apart from purchasing SOS I can't see me investing any more in it currently and I will stick with TS1, which, despite its faults, for this stick in the mud purist, offers a far more realistic and satisfying experience and one I keep returning to.

    Maybe TSW in a few years will offer a level of realism comparable as at the moment you get what DTG deem realistic, they seem to make a big effort to make modern routes realistic but for me fall short when it comes to historic routes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  20. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well, TS is easy to make more "realistic", you just edit a scenario or create one to make it like you think should be. With no editor and evry thing locked in TSW we have to take the view of DTG.
     
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  21. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't referring to DTG. I just tried to communicate that I don't think my opinion is any more "right" than that of others.
     
  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think a good compromise would be to give players the option to run two car services or 3 car services. That way players that want to run realistically can run a two car and those who want a slightly longer train can have the 3 car. I do find it strange though that when dtg took out all 8 car services on east coastway and replaced it with 4 car services, nobody really complained since 4 car trains run on that line in reality but when dtg took away the 3 car train and added the two car, there were some complaints and dtg added back the 3 car to stop complaints which now has caused even more complaints
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That's why I originally called for two timetables. Might seem excessive to some but this way, those like me could continue enjoying the 3-car sets and the more knowledgeable people could enjoy a more realistic timetable. Everyone wins.
     
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  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well the only difference I can see is that ECW is set in the modern period and TVL is set in 1989, for some reason that seems to be a blind spot.

    Yes I agree that would be the perfect scenario. I suspect it isn't possible for some reason at the moment but maybe in the future.
     
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  25. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I dont mind the step back to three car units, even if i prefere accuracy.

    No chance to get it right for everybody. More weird for me its putting class 40s and 45s in a 1990 route.

    Dtg, My general answer for the missing proper rolling stock is creating more loco dlcs, instead of considering fake stock on tracks as "real innovative solution".
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well yes the nonsensical layers on WCL stopped me purchasing the route.

    I agree they can't get it right for everyone, if they had put the 3 car set on NTP in the first place and just used the 2 car set on TVL, no-one would be complaining and it would be far more realistic. However, if realism isn't a concern, then TSW is not for me.

    Accurate DLC's would be very welcome as far as I am concerned and I would be very happy purchasing them.
     
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  27. TrainSim-Adam

    TrainSim-Adam Staff Member

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    Fully aware of the feedback about the PIS boards :) Its going to take a little longer to resolve than all the other concerns players raised, so we're still working on it.
     
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  28. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this answer : so you were fully aware its not working but still it was released broken... Or the feedback made you aware... And in this case that means nobody take time to check the TV boards more than 2 minutes...

    I dont know wich answer is worse...
    Sorry if this sound rude but all those bugs get boring...
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  29. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    No it means they still havent got a fix for it, but rather than sit on the other changes and fixes until they'd fixed the PIS they released what was ready which IMO is the right thing to do.

    But as youve shown they cant please everyone all of the time.
     
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  30. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Shouldnt then the other ready updates be realesed t without the PIS ?
    Or maybe just in releases notes : The PIS is not fully ready, we will fix it ASAP.
     
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  31. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Agree more communication is the key, however right now the fact that someone from DTG is commenting on the forums is a miracle.
     
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  32. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, they are quite rare after the last roadmap, maybe just because of Nat departure and the lack of an appointed community manager. Still fine that Adam took the time to read here.
    Hope things will get sorted on TVL and other preserved patches will be rolled.
     
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  33. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Cmon, you got a direct answer. Dont forget with the preservation update there is plenty of additional features & updates for routes which are already paid. That means all for free.

    Just pretend pis have a malfunction ;). When i went to arosa actually all of the pis on the entire line didnt work.
    20211227_151416.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  34. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we can ignore problems. Put our heads in holes saying : all is OK.
    We can pretend PIS are broken on all stations, we can pretend lights are out in cities, we can pretend passengers are zombies, we can pretend earth is flat. We can pretend evrything not looking at problems.

    Im happy that we get free updates but i dont agree with you, they do this to keep players interested in this routes, and new players to buy them, not because they are kind and want to do free man/hours gift. And even free stuff should be polished.

    Im still very happy that the PIS problem will be sorted and that Adam took some time to answer here.
     
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  35. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Pointing out problems is a good thing, its not a call to ignore them.

    In this case adam answered in a constructive way that they are working on the pis fix. So microscoping the reason for the tvl update timeline seems like a nothingburger to me.

    Its Time to fire up an old legend, feel free to continue the discussion at johnstown. First task is a bogie inspection.
     
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  36. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I was watching the British Ace video (good watch imo) on youtube last night of the Class 101 3 car on the TVL and he spotted another glitch. While stopped in a station a 2 car 101 came in (forget the station but on the way to Saltburn) and the 2 car set had blank destination boards.

    With TVL already been fixed twice now and still need another fix will are these bugs going to delay the other preserved routes?
     
  37. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I think its because the ntp 101 is also subed, so the tvl has the actual destinations while the ntp version only supports the one from its base route.

    Not 100% sure its the cause, but also spotted 1 2car dmu with a blank destination box.
     
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  38. Der Uni

    Der Uni Active Member

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    For me, i want more realism to Train Sim World 2 rather then more variety of unrealistic Rolling Stock.

    If a Route have less stations than 10 and only 2 Trains per Day goes by in the real Timetable, then that's how it is. Some people would complain that there is not enough traffic on the Route and would like more rolling stock on the route (perhaps Rolling Stock that never Drive on this Route)...

    I´m a German TSW Player and i love the British Routes an their (more modern) Rolling Stock (more than German Content). Especially for the Britisch past Era i want to know how it was in that Time that i did´t know very well and i want to feel how the People in these Years using the Rail Network.

    First thing I´ve heard that the Class 101 3-Formation was a "fault", i was very disappointed (i believed that the 3-Formation Class 101 was a realistic Setting for TVL) but i was happy that DTG fixed this "Error" and removed it.

    And at this Time (DTG throws back the 3-Formation Class 101) I think variety is more important than realism in Train Sim World 2. Just my opinion
     
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  39. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy that the product I bought has been returned with the value I bought it for.
    We could say the issue lies in the initial throw of the dice, because if it didn't offer a different experience from north trans pennine for the 101 I wouldn't have bought it.
     
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  40. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree totally. If DTG see TSW2 as a sim that it should reflect the trains in real life as near as possible and in the correct formations otherwise it is an arcade game. Having a 3 car 101 on the TVL is as accurate as having Thomas on there. Fat Controller anyone?
     
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  41. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather have had the Class 143 instead but you can't get everything...
     
  42. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Did the class 143 run on TVL in 1989? If it did the me too. Did the 150? I saw some people talking about on youtube but didn't see the answer. For me driving trains which actually existed in whatever era is where the fun is at .
     
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  43. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well that maybe one of the problems with TSW. Its market positioning. Its sells as à realistic simulator, and partly is, with simulation of safety devices (when they work !), timetables after real life when possible, simugraph, well done tracks layout.... But at same time we have collectables, action points... They are not really a problem but still people may ask is it a casual game, is it a light sim ? A hard core simulator ? Maybe any of three ?
    Maybe a clearer positioning from thé start would make things easier now.
     
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  44. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    Can we stop the silly exaggeration and blowing things out of proportion? I spent 30 seconds on Google:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/66289212@N07/10578227476
     
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  45. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    That was taken in 1987 not 1989.
     
  46. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The Class 143 was the dominant DMU type based at Heaton during 1989 along with a handful of Class 101 and Class 142 units. The Class 150 never operated in the North East, possibly due to gauging issues (they're banned from the Cumbrian Coast Line for this reason) or simply because Heaton never were allocated any. Either way the one from WCL would need to be in the original Regional Railways livery (the one with the 'sprinter' logo as opposed to the revised RR livery from the mid 1990's as seen in WCL).
     
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  47. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    If you read the description it's actually a Class 108 centre car ;)
     
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  48. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The track does not look awful now. I’m happy to drive a 2-car or 3-car Class 101 on it now, even a 24-car 101 if I could find one. Happy days.
     
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  49. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    You spent 30 seconds on Google and found an image of a class 108 centre car taken 2 years previous to the year the route is set in. So yeah I think you've proven the point that a 3 car 101 in 1989 is unlikely to have been an every day occurrence given that BR was struggling with rolling stock canablising different rolling stock to form 3 car services even before 1989.
     
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  50. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I saw that but 3 car class 101 Vs 2 car 101 with a 108 centre car does not justify a comparison with Thomas the tank engine. There are things about tsw that require genuine improvement, going over the top about minor things means that we aren't talking about the right things. For example having slam doors close without the driver pressing a button, and then hearing the guard buzz the driver would make far far more difference to 99% of players than obsessing about the minutiae of late 1980s first generation dmu formations.
     
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