Who Dives In Day One And Who Waits For A Sale?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Samo1, Feb 7, 2021.

  1. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to buy on the day DLC that interests me drops and I don’t have a problem with price if the product is polished but experience means I wait for a sale and that’s for TWO reasons, price but as I said I would happily pay full price but more importantly a sale usually comes months down the line (pun intended) and hopefully bugs, glitches and gremlins have been addressed so that’s a win win for me but a lose for DTG, customer confidence is absolutely essential to maximise any business and it’s clear that there’s a divid between those that support DTG regardless of release day quality and will buy for the sake of buying and those more savvy customers that see how the land lies and don’t stay up until midnight just to hit the buy button, so will anyone like me admit to waiting for a sale and hopefully bug fixes before buying?
     
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  2. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Wait for the sale every time. By then you know what you're getting.
     
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  3. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the route and how much value I feel I'd be getting.

    TGV for example, I haven't bought yet. I enjoy a quick run on a high speed route from time to time, but I much prefer routes with lots of stops and a fair amount of speed in between. I love Rapid Transit for this reason, along with SKA and HMA. So, TGV wouldn't offer me as much value for money as much as other routes do. I'd have the odd blast down the route, then play something else with more stops. £24.99 would therefore seem a bit steep for how much I'd play it.

    SHS, I bought on day one. High speed, plenty of stops, and a local commuter service that runs at a good pace too. I therefore get £24.99's worth of value from this route no problem, so I have no problem paying the full RRP.

    The above is subjective, of course. Those who enjoy high speed runs one after the other would get more value from TGV and would want to buy it as soon as possible, and someone who lives for freight services would be throwing their money away entirely!

    Bug wise, I've never seen a route that's been unplayable as a result of the bugs. Some irritating ones exist in SHS that arguably shouldn't have been there in the release, but it hasn't stopped me thoroughly enjoying it regardless. An update is coming soon so I don't regret picking it up on day one.

    If you buy a route on day one, expect some bugs. We know this by now, so it's up to every individual person to make their own decision as to whether they want to go straight in and discover some issues, or wait a while until they're patched and maybe save some money in the process.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of personal rules I follow when buying DLC...

    Firstly, I have usually bought routes in sales, but now that I have caught up and have all the old routes, I may decide to buy when they come out. I have only bought three routes at release, plus TSW2, which I got on release day.

    Secondly, a route needs playability satisfaction and quality. This is why I haven’t bought either HMA or LGVM. The first because of the missing layers and performance issues and the second because it’s just not worth full price for the one thing it does, for me at least. I waited for SEHS instead, which I did buy on release day. I am intending to get HMA when the price drops or the layers and performance are fixed, probably wait for both, a fix and a sale. I bought IoW at full price and that was a route I really wanted to see in TSW so it was a no brainer for me.

    Thirdly, for loco DLC, if it adds good value or is so amazing that I need it now, I might buy on release. I have bought quite a few at full price on release but waited for sales for a lot of the older stuff that I bought to complete my collection. There are still some loco DLC that I haven’t bought, and some that I probably never will.

    And finally, I have set my self an unofficial budget of £15 a month, as that is what I regard is a good amount to pay DTG (or third parties) for playing their excellent content, so I have mainly been sticking to that budget since I got TSW in August 2019. The roadmap is good for this as it gives me a good indication of any new releases I might want and can curb my spending on other things. Looking forwards, I can currently see the Arosa line and possibly Cane Creek as release day purchases and maybe the BR420. Everything else is probably a wait for a sale DLC. Those three would be three months of my budget so might fit nicely.
     
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  5. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I have bought all my dlc for TSW2 on sale, and I have everything except SEHS and LGVM. I will probably break that rule for Clinchfield and Cane Creek because I am so hungry for NA content that I won't be able to wait for a sale. Of course, there may well be a pre-order discount for those. Plus I make use of my Steam wallet to save up for future purchases. The way things are going, I'll probably have a small fortune in there by the time those routes launch.:D
     
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  6. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    All TSW2 routes have been day one for me. Loco’s in the sale.

    TSW2020 last year different story as picked up the game well after release and picked up the odd route every sale that dropped over during 2020 (have all DLC but one)
     
  7. surreychuff#3060

    surreychuff#3060 Member

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    I guess the thing to remember with video games is that if you choose to buy any game or piece of DLC at launch you’re generally going to be getting it in the the worst state it will ever be and / or at the most expensive price it’ll be.

    Personally whenever DTG announce a route / loco that I’m excited for or that I know I’m going to click with, then I do jump in day 1 and can’t wait to see their representation of the route etc.

    I don’t think any of the TSW/2 releases have had issues that have stopped me enjoying the content on day 1and I’ve had a fantastic time dipping in and out of scenarios and services this weekend on SEHS.. it’s a brilliant piece of content and well worth the money; and I’m looking forward to anything the team do that optimises the experience, but I’m happy with what I’ve got now :)

    Without question if you’re patient enough, wait until a few months down the line and get it when it’s more refined around the edges for 25% off though, but that goes with any game, content or tech..
     
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  8. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I bought TSW2020 collectors edition when it went on sale on PS in October. I just played the standard routes at first (mostly GWE) and then added a few extra routes as I wanted. NTP was a sure thing for me as it's one of my local lines and I've ridden on the TVL a few times too as some family live in the Middlesbrough/Redcar area.
    I wasn't keen on the German routes at first but then I got into them and bought all of the ones available for TSW2020 (still can't drive with PZB on though).
    Then, after a few weeks, TSW2 was on sale so again, I bought the collectors edition and ported over all my routes.

    I didn't buy LGV and still won't even if it goes on sale because I don't really like driving at high speed and having no variety of trains to drive.
    I haven't bought HMA because after researching it, I found out that the layers for extra services were not active on consoles.

    I have bought SEHS though as it looks good in most places and has a variety of units to play with. SEHS is actually an enjoyable route (minus a few niggles that will hopefully be sorted with a patch soon) and atm is my most played route on TSW2.

    Depending on what new content is coming down the line this year, I may purchase content at release (after watching pre-release streams first).
     
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  9. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    If you wait for a sale is it because....?

    A. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with saving money with hopefully added bug fixes as well

    B. Lack of polish with original release date DLC, they appear to be rushed and I don’t have confidence in day one releases
     
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  10. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    i buy directly
     
  11. Slemcer

    Slemcer Well-Known Member

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    I haven't yet and most definitely never will buy on day one. I bought TSW2 during the first two weeks after release though, and installed the preserved routes step by step. But all of those presented new bugs and got even less enjoyable than TSW2020. Also the DLCs which have been originally developed for TSW2 wouldn't lighten the mood, cause everyone of them lacks in certain details for console players: missing layers on MAG, missing trophies for IOW ... So this is the pattern now, I don't expect anything and I won't buy anything until the improvements are really worthwile.
     
  12. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Both.
     
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  13. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    I agree, I'm the same way especially being on the consoles, like mentioning the HMA and its missing layers. I didn't buy it as well because of the missing layers especially making stops between Augsburg and Mammenorf(hope i spelled that right). Not buying it until thats fixed, although I have a feeling they wont fix it. I usually check videos online to see if its worth buying it for the first week or so. But again so many bugs in the game based on all routes and so, I wait for sale or when majority of bugs are patched.
     
  14. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been day one ever since I got TSW. But SEHS has left a bitter taste in my mouth and I’m going to wait until I’ve seen reviews and maybe even a sale before DTG get my money from now on. I’m sick of it.
     
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  15. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    It depends.

    This is how I rank DLCs
    1. Things I don't want
    2. Things I would ONLY buy on sale
    3. Things I can buy at full price but I would rather wait for a sale
    4. Things I have to get immediately
    About the things I do not want to buy there are for example HMA, because I don't like huge german routes with only two trains, the old british stuff (such as TVL), because I don't like them, and I will simply never buy those, even if heavily discounted.

    Things I would only buy on sale includes stuff like the BR363, which is great but only offers 13 services, which is nothing, so it's an example of poor value for money, but the loco itself is good.

    Things I can wait for, are DLCs I really want but I don't need them immediately so I usually wait one or two big sales and if the DLC I'm interested in is not part of them I end up buying it anyway, for example I did that for RSN and the BR155.

    Things I have to get immediately is stuff like TGV, SE HS, IoW, all three routes I owned and loved on TS, so I (more or less) know what I'm getting and I just want them ASAP because I love the routes/trains.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  16. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I actually pre-ordered Train Sim World (original) on PS4 when it was £40, but it was delivered to my house a day late. I think I have bought one or two DLCs on day one, probably something British. It might have been East Coastway but I really can't remember.
     
  17. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    For what its worth, I'll most likely be buying the Clinchfield route on release, the ability to use the F7 in the livery editor will be worth the price of admission alone. (Also if the SD40 is an SD40, then I could recreate some SP SD40/Rs as well)

    I might buy the TGV route later, but definitely when its on sale.

    Cane Creek will depend in how well Skyhook does on the route itself, and what model of AC4400CW comes with the route (If it is just a reskinned CSX one with the wrong trucks then ill pass, if it an actual UP one then I may take a look)
     
  18. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Bit of both for me. British stuff I go for day 1 (apart from IOW as it was broke on PS4 on release). Most of the German stuff I have only bought in a sale. I like it but not enough to really buy day 1. I don’t have the Munich Ausberg because it’s a different game on console. I like the idea of the TGV but will only pick it up when it’s on sale
     
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  19. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the route but I rarely buy routes at full price to begin with. However, I guess you can count TSW 2020 Deluxe Edition as I brought it day 1 that included routes I didn't own yet like Peninsula Corridor, MSB, and NTP. I mainly buy the routes/locos I like at a discount. The LIRR DLC was the first DLC I brought at a discount shortly after I got TSW four months after it released. It depends on what type of route it is and the length because I am very picky. I like commuter/regional rail service, freight, and rapid transit. However, I like operating commuter/regional rail and rapid transit services more than frieght. Also, I'm not into steam trains and heritage routes like WSR. I have all the German routes except for HMA. I would of brought HMA at full price if it wasn't for the layers issue. But since the route is missing the layers, then I won't be getting it at full price but rather at a discount. The route that I wouldn't buy at full price is IOW due to its length and would get it at a discount. At some point in the future, I will buy the two routes I already mentioned, including a few more such as LGV, SEHS, and maybe CN Oakville.
     
  20. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I think excitement not logic drives midnight buy button bashing, short memories or not caring how bugged/glitched a new route can be on release is conveniently forgotten for some strange reason, I hope these are not the same people complaining after because we have all be burnt with day one buys and should know what to expect by now
     
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  21. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    Samo, Samo, Samo. Your characterisation of first-day buyers is extremely narrow. You start with the assumption they’re rubes, and it all goes downhill from there.

    As I’ve said before, I support DTG’s overall vision of making a quality console train sim game in principle. So I buy everything on day one. That’s because in supporting DTG’s fundamental vision, I consider myself a patron, rather than a customer. I consider my purchases investments in keeping DTG’s lights on. I’ve worked in entertainment software — I’ve lectured game design in tertiary courses, and my students have built AAA games and mobile game winners that you’ve 110% definitely played, Samo — so I don’t ever expect perfection on day one, but rather sufficient enjoyable functionality. I expect DTG to improve product releases over time, because I trust they care about their work, and I’m willing to let them determine their own working pace and development focus.

    This is because I’m a patron of what DTG wants to do, not an entitled consumer who thinks they’re owed the perfect object of their own desires for $24.99. Of course I know there are bugs. Everything has bugs. Can I play it and enjoy it on some level today? Yes, then I’m happy on day one. Is it perfect on day one? Sometimes yes, in my opinion, but really I don’t care either way, because what I really prefer is for DTG to be able to continue developing console train sims rather than not.

    Fundamentally, Samo, you have to decide whether you respect DTG as games artists building toward a longer term vision — or disrespect them, by treating them like a golden goose that you expect should squeeze out your perfect train sim egg on demand.

    Having real respect for DTG as makers would see you want to offer them a full price purchase at all times, no matter what, if at all possible. I’m cool with people waiting for sales if they honestly can’t afford full price — but it’s disingenuous for people like yourself, who seek lower prices, then to mock those who pay full price as rubes or sheep — because these first day buyers are exactly the very people who are funding each DLC’s break-even achievement in revenue earnings, and thus they underwrite your ability to even get bargains in the first place. Though I doubt you’ve considered that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  22. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    While I understand and respect your opinion on the matter, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

    I, too bought a lot of DLCs, with this exact same purpose, supporting DTG, but even if I respect them as developers and fully support and respect their vision for a Simulator as stated by their CEO, They still made decisions I do not agree with.

    First, I don't want to pay for things I don't like, I won't but TVL because I need to give DTG as much money as possible even if I don't like old british diesels and I would get next to no enjoyment from that DLC.

    Second, there are some things I do not like, for example, the BR363 only includes 13 services and does not substitute the BR204 in MSB, In my opinion it's too little gameplay to offer in a loco DLC, so I waited for a sale, even if the loco is fantastic, I still don't think it's worth the full price.

    Another example I will never buy the BR101 if it comes without a cab car and only IC layers on HRR, because I hate they decided to cut corners and give us half a trainset, operating on 1/3 of its potential routes, for the same reason I will not buy HMA until it gets all the layers or the 423 can substitute the 422 on SKA, particularly now that I have a Series X that can handle all the layers on HMA.

    I know that whether one person buys a DLC or not does not make a difference, but I a firm believer of the "vote with your wallet" idea and if I think they made a bad decision, I will not support that, even if I agree with their general ideology.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  23. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    I certainly respect DTG for what they are trying to achieve but not the way they are doing it, releasing software they know is broken and will need to be fixed at a later date disrespects the customer in my opinion, I know bills have to be paid, salaries have to be paid and profit is a priority but releasing DLC that is rushed unfinished and unpolished is unacceptable, not everyone in fact I would assume hardly any players have your patron mentality, respect is earned and if DTG want my money on release they have to meet my criteria, not the other way around, without customers DTG have absolutely nothing, they should always remember that and respect that, until release day releases vastly improve then it’s a sale with hopefully bug fixes only for me further down the line, although I would be happy to pay full price for a polished day one release but when was the last polished day one release?
     
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  24. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    All you’ve really said is that you want to disrespect DTG by treating them like a golden goose.

    What actual credentials do you have for criticising “the way they’re doing it”. Are you privy to their scrums? Do you understand how they’ve structured their development pipeline? Their asset management? Their code libraries?

    Can you objectively define “broken” without referring to you own subjective preferences? What is your objective standard of “finished”? Can you state what these terms mean without begging the question?

    Can you say for a certainty that releasing products that don’t meet your subjective standards — because your claims products are “rushed unfinished and unpolished” are 100% subjective if you fail to provide actual evidence that maps to a set of objective standards for those three qualities that everyone can agree on — is unacceptable? Sales figures would argue otherwise. That’s objective evidence btw, if you’re wondering what the difference is. It’s not an opinion, like your idea of “rushed” or “unfinished”, but rather the fact that defined percentage numbers of players can be observed earning entry-level DLC trophies, meaning they’ve bought it, from which we can roughly infer sales results and product revenues for PlayStation. Similar process for Steam and Xbox applies.

    Can you quantify that “hardly any” players have my mentality, or are you just mouthing off without facts? There’s at least one other on this thread already (Zeros). That’s 2 from 22 replies — 10 percent in favour of patronage. The real percent number of players on this thread with that mentality is actually slightly higher because some commenters like you and me have repeat posts. This is objective evidence too, btw. You’ll get the hang of it.

    Fundamentally, we differ in how we view respect. I see respect as something given to DTG without question, as a measure of my humanity toward others who are creating in good faith. Laugh if you like, but things like that matter in creative industries. You see respect as something DTG must extract from you by precisely meeting your selfish needs. My version is supportive. Yours is transactional. I know which one is more emotionally mature. I know which one is more toxic.

    And finally, define “polished” in an objective way that doesn’t beg the question, for God’s sake.

    If you’d enrolled in the game design degree I supervised with these attitudes, and then kept these attitudes, you’d never have made it to graduation, despite all my team’s best efforts to help you grow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  25. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Honker, great name, you certainly know how to honk!
     
  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Now you went too far IMO.

    At the end this is not a charity to help DTG, the customer/developer relationship is transactional, if I only wanted to give DTG money without getting anything back I would just donate some money instead of buying DLCs.

    Clearly while it's great to donate money to people that might need it, treating a dev studio like a charity makes no sense to me, they work to give you a product and you pay them for their work.

    Also, trust and faith have to be earned, if I receive an e-mail telling me to pay $100 to receive $1M would you trust them? You should given the fact you give respect without question.

    DTG clearly showed they want to continue improving products after release, LGV has improved massively since launch, so I now believe they will do the same to SE HS.
    It has not been always like this however.

    While I appreciate your altruism and will to help DTG, at the end we still are customers of a company and not donating money to a charity.
     
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  27. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Good post
     
  28. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    Be a lot cooler if you had actual points to make.
     
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  29. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    It would be cooler if you realised there are two sides to every argument, trying to ram your side is getting you nowhere, I have given my side without trying to ram it down people’s throats or in your case, lecture!
     
  30. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    Nope. I didn’t go far enough, and I stand by what I say.

    Incessantly critical customers will kill a studio. I know this for a fact because I have watched it happen.

    Where your transactional model falls over is that you are not paying for a product in the widget sense, where your transactional model makes slightly more sense.

    Instead, here you are paying for the outcome of the creative work of dozens of people exercising their craft. If you value their work, you pay for it. Or you could always crack open Pirate Bay and hang the artist’s livelihood because they suck and you deserve it for free.

    Being a patron is not treating an artist like a charity. It’s paying for their ongoing costs so they can continue making artworks you will own and enjoy.

    My actions aren’t altruistic, I get a benefit from them, but they are inherently supportive — rather different to the inherently punitive approach you people are suggesting should be applied, where you withhold support until they meet your subjective whims. I’m sure you can see the difference, if you stop throwing the word “charity” around as though it’s a pejorative term for a moment and think it through.

    (But then why wouldn’t people with merely transactional ethics also think charity is a pejorative term, I mutters to meself...)

    Oh btw. Your email a million quid point is a red herring btw. No one is claiming DTG are an obvious scam. It’s pointless, and means nothing for a discussion of what respect actually is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  31. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    Samo, remind me — who’s the one dropping thread after thread after thread with “DTG problem this” and “DTG problem that” all through them?

    Speaking from a position of some authority, frankly you could do with attending some game design lectures. It would give you a much more coherent platform from which to critique DTG’s work, for a start. Slide into my DMs and I’ll send you my old reading list.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  32. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    Hey guys, let's not fall out with one another. You don't have to agree with each other but let's keep things friendly.
     
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  33. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Call it constructive criticism, Sam replies to me over the months so there is no problem, sheep go with the flow, other customers try to point out where they see failings, DTG will take that on board and decide what they want to do with it, you can read with no impact whatsoever, so you could butt out if my posts offend your over sensitive brain, you won’t get a free route for defending DTG, maybe you think you will? go lecture where it’s wanted, reading your posts have wasted my time enough, they are sleep inducing!
     
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  34. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Nat
     
  35. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    Perhaps maybe also stop calling other players “sheep”. It’s condescending.
     
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  36. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I get it, this community can easily be over critical in various cases, and I said I agree with supporting DTG, particularly many of the recent decisions have been fantastic, Sam as a community manager is doing a great job and the existence of Adam's team gives a bit of assurance in post launch development, which was lacking during the early TSW days when known bugs would remain unfixed for months.

    I agree, it's impossible to value what essentially is an art work (whether it is a model train, a TSW DLC, a piece of music).
    Everyone has their expectations and their standards when it comes to "how good do I want X to be for it to be worth Y amount" and we will never agree on an objective answer.

    We have different views of supporting a dev studio, maybe since you worked on one, your insider view is different to a simple buying customer, different experiences in life make us different.

    While I agree, defining the "value" of a TSW DLC is not as easy as defining the "value" of physical object, this doesn't mean I have to treat every dev studio like a musician and donate money to show my support, TSW is not funded by donations, but by transactions, I give them money, they give me a product.

    I like to buy DLCs knowing I support DTG, if they would set up a patreon account I would for sure be a member of that. But I wouldn't just buy DLCs I wouldn't play or avoid getting things on sale just to make sure DTG gets a little extra money, if you want to do that, it is a really nice gesture and I am sure it will be appreciated.
    For example
    LGV at launch was appalling and I was even thinking of a refund but I decided it would be nice to reward them for doing something I liked (starting to do routes outside GER/UK/US), at the same time I won't support them in doing something I consider wrong, like the 101 without cab car or doing a loco DLC with only 13 services.

    At the end, I have my personal standards and expectations, which will decide whether I should only get a DLC on sale or if it's worth the full price or whether I should not buy it.

    Until we buy stuff we are still supporting the company
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  37. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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  38. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    He likes calling other people that don't agree with him names. He called me a fanboy, really hurt I was lol
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with this. I am in no way a patron and dtg don't expect people to buy everything they make. Yes I do agree with their ideology for this game and they are one of the most adept train simulation companies in the world but I have not agreed with some of the decisions they have made. To me it doesn't make sense to buy everything dtg will make especially that you won't enjoy. I am not a fan of old historic routes and the only historic route I own is ntp because it came with tsw2020 collectors edition. I'm more into modern day commuter, subway and high speed routes I've only bought two loco dlc for this game, the lirr m3 and the caltrain mp36 and three routes so far which are HRR for tsw2020, HMA and SEHS. The majority of routes I own came from the tsw2020 collectors edition which I bought in the winter last year and I got Rapid Transit for free from dtg as part of the preserved collection switch to tsw2 which was suprising. Dovetail however is not a charity. I'm sure if a player buys everything to support them that will be a kind thing to do. I'm glad when I buy something, it'll support dtg sorta as an investor but having a mentality to buy everything dtg makes is a nice gesture but isn't necessary especially if you won't play with all that content or enjoy it
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  40. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    I haven't always bought on day of sale, but I have sometimes. I wish there were discounts like for Steam. I definitely would then.
     
  41. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    there is one on steam right now
     
  42. IfICanDream

    IfICanDream Active Member

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    I should have been more specific and said pre-release discounts. But yeah, Steam does seem to have more discounts in general.
     
  43. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    this!!! It’s the same spiel each month. Just a different coat of paint. Anything from 50 to 100 posts back and forth same arguments and comments. We know what it’s like, people can purchase whenever they feel the need to.

    did I see logic mentioned as a process to purchase? Hahaha

    we enjoy the game. Bugs get reported. Bugs get fixed.

    now when is cement circle going to get fixed for 2020 eh? Now I’m a broken record :D
     
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  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Why? Would not be realistic, and for all intents and purposes they are almost the same train. The 422 was a variant of the 423 which VRR ordered because they liked the Munich trains but the 423s weren't quite what they required.
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    When I attend a symphony performance, I don't demand my money back if the horn soloist splits a note or the conductor chooses the "wrong" tempos. Or go online and slag off the orchestra as a ripoff and a scam, and its audience as "fanboys" and "sheep."
     
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  46. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    In that line runs the BR423, obviously not in the Munich S-bahn configuration, some of us would rather have the right train (BR423) but with the wrong configuration, other prefer to have the wrong train (422) in the correct configuration.

    There has been a lengthy discussion on the 8th of December roadmap update
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    [​IMG]
     
  48. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Where is that? With the information available online I only managed to find only 423 on that line but of course I can make mistakes.

    Although it seems like we are talking about two different lines
    20210215_005932.jpg
    I can't find Düren nor Köln here


    Edit: The lines involved are S13 and S19
    Screenshot_20210215-010340_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20210215-010358_Chrome.jpg
    Both operated by BR423s.
    Since wikipedia is not the most reliable source, I saw various trainspotting videos at Düren Station (search "Düren S Bahn" on YT) and you will only find 423s there, some 420s on older videos.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Ah. OK, I now see where the miscommunication is! The Rhein-Ruhr Verkehrsverbund runs both 422s and 423s in S-Bahn service. But, you are right, the Koln-Duren routes are the S12, S13 and S19, and as far as I can tell you are correct, those are serviced by 423s. The 422s do run on the S-7, S-8 and S-9 between Hagen and Wuppertal.


    So, yes, technically the HMA 423s could and pedantically perhaps should have been layered in- but then the markings would be completely wrong. At least the 422s say "S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr" on them. Functionally I can't see that it makes any difference, since they are effectively the same train with different seating layouts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  50. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    If something that interests me comes out and I really want it then I will dive straight in. Even if I do not have available resources.
    With some other stuff I wait for a sale. Well, have in the past but not so much anymore since after two years of playing the game, I pretty much know what I like and enjoy. Thou I prefer to wait with some loco add ons. At the same time, I have everything ever released for Germany. My German collection has spiraled out of control to be honest. Meaning, I may have a problem since I even buy stuff I never use. Yet again, it is like a model railway, you collect things and it is always nice to see different stuff doing their business along the route.
    So short answer is, with German stuff I go straight in when it comes out. With British stuff, it depends what it is actually.
     

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