Who Think That Dtg Should Start Creating Longer Realistic Route, This Year?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix, Jan 30, 2022.

  1. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    If I had to make a choice between realistic longer routes vs not as long but very realistic, highly detailed with plenty of interesting services with various trains I'd opt in for the later. I don't think I could do a service on 1 route lasting more than 2 hours. I struggle keeping focus with the current freight routes, but that's just my thoughts.
     
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  2. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I like the route in TS22 which recently released and has both the TGV and the ICE and goes cross-border between Germany and France. That would have the more interesting aspects of multiple safety systems in a single journey as well as power changes etc. For me these things can create more to do than just go full beans from A-B.
     
  3. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

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    I'll be honest. Either I would do that in an era with less urbanisation or I would do the Douro for the Epic landscape. But your sugestion is noted. I'm really thinking on proposing dovetail for something portuguese (tsw2 or ts20xx) instead of just developing to OR.

    Besides, i don't know how long would it take me to get RENFE's licence... but it is a nice idea. Maybe I would be mor realistic and do Viana-Vigo.
     
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  4. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    My choice in this case is realistc and longer for an increased price. Why should dtgs price politic be my problem as a customer. With the current 30 euros the longer routes wont work out.

    Hell im willing to pay for longer routes, extensions and all that. Maybe "just trains" gets my point in this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2022
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  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Your ability to pay higher prices isn’t going to be the same for everyone. If it was a physical object you were buying then you could choose a better one because you have more money but for DLC it is the total income from all purchases that pay for the development and higher prices result in fewer sales so the total income could actually be less for a higher priced DLC. Also, the higher the price goes, the more people will wait for a discount to buy so the income doesn’t really go up even for a modest price increase.
     
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  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I think, considering DTGs over a decade long experience with selling DLC, they have pretty much found the sweet spot for their price tags.
     
  7. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Agree totally, we had this in the route merger thread.

    Lets say a "long" route is made out of 3 dlcs each available as single route.
    This way its independend, and a customer which just wants to drive short sections can purchais a single part of that pack.

    There are 1000 ways for a business case to longer routes. Starting with not every dlc has to be developed for merging or extending.

    But its train sim world and the part with route lenght and extension is unimproved.

    There isnt a single one actually. All im suggesting is a trial in this direction. This doesnt mean the entire strategy of all dlc development has to change.
     
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  8. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Show me a pic and I'll tell you straight.
     
  9. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    DTG could do a compromise with players wanting longer routes with say scenario's but done in an immersive way for instance The scenario would say go on this route at a certain time then when that route is over you have to travel as a passenger to another route to then complete that and so forth. imo it would flush out the game more and could lead to a decent career mode but done in a realistic way.
     
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  10. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Several thoughts regarding the opinions expressed in this thread so far:

    1. How long does a real-life engine driving shift last, in terms of minimums and maximums for passenger, through freight, and switching/shunting runs?

    2. How much would a longer route, with more scenery, structure, and track assets effect load-in times and fps rates (two factors that many folks complain about even on routes of the average current length?

    3. How many folks would be willing to pay for the additional development work involved in making a longer route?

    BTW: I didn't vote because in my opinion the issue presented is way too complex for a binary choice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2022
  11. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    DTG have said in the past making longer routes is not the problem it is making them interesting so I guess the actual Railway Stations themselves would take the most development and I would assume there is a fair amount of people that would pay for a longer route. I would but obviously it would have to be a route I want in the first place.

    I'm sure I heard it is 8-12 hrs shifts in the UK but I could be wrong so do not quote me on that. I thought when you approach a piece of scenery it was loaded in and when you past it it was loaded out, I have no idea if that is 100%. One of the biggest problems DTG has is optimisation problems so that would affect the longer routes more.
     
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  12. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Turns out its a known issue, if you select on the first screen only from the top list its ok, but if you select a division from the bottom list its a bug.
     
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    1. I believe the rule of thumb is "12 hours on, 12 hours off", a response to the Clapham Junction crash where the engineers were shown to have been working very long hours and therefore missed the dodgy connection which caused the whole thing. As I say it's a "rule of thumb" rather than a hard and fast, but as an example the recent record attempt run from London to Scotland was done in one shot by a single driver, so that's over four hours in one stint...
    2. I don't think the issue with FPS and load times relates to how LONG a route is, because the route loads in and out in "tiles", with only a few in memory at any one time. The issue with FPS relates more to "tile density", so how much is compacted onto a single tile, how that's rendered, animated etc etc. As an example one would expect that a cityscape would take longer to load and more memory than a rural setting, simply because of the number of buildings, light sources, shadow sources, noises etc etc. DTG seem to buck this trend by trying to render individual clumps of grass all of which animate, hence rural america taking up so much CPU and GPU power
    3. I would say that depends. If "a longer route" was all one route, which a lively timetable, lots of locos and lots to do then maybe they would pay more for it. If it was a group of routes that slotted together ending up at the same thing there would always be people who bought the individual routes, and a number who buy the whole network, but in the end it's the commercial decision of DTG how they play it, and for now they want to make disparate routes and sell them all individually
     
  14. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmm: a post I added to this thread yesterday has vanished without a trace.
     
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  15. squerble

    squerble New Member

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    I'm not sure how I feel about a super-long route, but I'd certainly love to see the BML expanded and merged somewhat:

    • Get the main branch up to London Bridge, and then bring in Thameslink 700s
    • Add the two terminating branches from Purley to Caterham and Tottenham Corner
    • Merge in East Coastway, adding in the joining line from Wivelsfield to Lewes.
    Those three are a reasonably hefty undertaking, but not too arduous, and would add such a variety to services that I personally believe would be very much worth it.


    The so called "god tier" expansion would be the above, and then bring the Chatham Mainline to TSW2 exactly as it is in the recent TS release, including the lines all the way over to Dover Priory and Ramsgate, as well as adding in the HS1 section from Southeastern High Speed. That would give us over 220 miles of track and a huge variety of routes and timetables.
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Everyone keeps suggesting CML... Given every service on the CML runs fast from Victoria to Bromley South and fast again until Longfield there's a whole heap of services missed from the London travel zones which would be filled by LO and TL services which I would much prefer added to the BML rather than another "hey you miss everything" mainline driving Electrostars

    I would much prefer a pack including the London Bridge lines via Dulwich and Sydenham and preferably the line out to Beckenham as well
    Throw in the correct class for commuter shuttles and you have a decent South London Southern network

    For Thameslink yes it goes from Norwood Junction to London Bridge, but it goes fast. Stops at none of the stations between so a 700 DLC would fit on top of the above (as well as on SEHS and BML) but for me I don't see any standalone route DLC which needs the 700 south of the river. Most notably an MML from St Pancras to Bedford would require the 700 as they're the commuter shuttle for that line, and maybe a North Kent Lines (though the 465 we have would populate this for the main), or even the Peterborough or Cambridge Lines out of KGX
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    For the umpteenth time: route extensions are not going to happen. Not for BML. Not for GWE. Not for LIRR. Not for anything.
     
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  18. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I noticed a post I made in another thread went 'walkies'. Concerning eh?
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point and for class 700 it can arrive in game as part of Rush Hour Train Pack HSP-46 Acela Boston-Providence Class 700 & 59 Brighton Main Line and Nahverkehr Dresden DB BR146.0 DB BR411/415 ICE-T
     
  20. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope they’ll do the Hsp46 bilevel double decker coach’s for the rush hour route Boston sprinter in the near future.
     
  21. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Longer routes = choice. Choice to run the whole thing or just parts of it.
    A few people on here have posted, i don't have the time to sit running a route for X amount of time.
    Well some of us do have the time and would like the choice to be able to do it.
    I don't always want to run Paddington - Penzance in TS1, but at least i can if i wish.
    Same for the merged ATS WCML Preston - Glasgow - Edinburgh or ATS ECML Kings X - Edinburgh.
    Choice is a wonderful thing. At the moment with DTG we get bits and pieces of routes, which make no sense.
    What is the sense of Paddington - Reading, it should have been created to at least Swindon and preferably Bristol.
    DTG's philosophy with both games, has always been as little as possible for the most bunce.
     
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  22. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    And that why i say in order for this to work, they have to fix the save game Format. :)
     
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  23. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know anything about the save game function buddy.
    But getting DTG to fix anything, is like having teeth pulled.
     
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  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Do you want a british route in the game, or wait for the next two years while they make one 7½ times longer than their usual. Oh, and of course you won't have the assets to populate it because so many different type of trains run on the lines in question that even with three or four it will still look barren
    Oh and lastly, you'll be paying 7½ times the cost (if not more) to make it viable, so that'll be £180 or near as darnit...
    That's the choice you're asking people to make. Not just longer routes, but longer waits, longer numbers on credit cards and not really a better experience all round unless you want something really specific, ie to drive from PNZ to PAD
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sheesh, you left out the Orient Express, Paris to Istanbul.
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's because the line was built to relatively lightweight standards, so that given the high axle loading of loaded hoppers the speed has to be held down lest the track gets pounded to pieces.

    Although US mainlines are generally laid with 32-pound rail, most branch lines aren't.
     
  27. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Might also have to do with the frequent rock falls reported along the branch. Engineers have to watch the track carefully and be ready to brake those heavy trains at a moment's notice if they see objects on the r-o-w. Hair raising to say the least.

    Now there's an idea for a scenario.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
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  28. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the Trans-Europe Express. It even comes with its own theme song.

    Though now I wonder if that 31-train network could be done piecemeal, as its own "country".
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There's long and there's long. London to Glasgow or Bristol to Newcastle is never going to happen, but something like the distance of London to Birmingham, Paddington to Bristol or Bristol to Birmingham should certainly be on the possibility horizon. DTG and their route builders have had several years now to become comfortable with the creation tools. I for one am still a bit disappointed that even with Spirit Of Steam they have gone for girth rather than length, when something like the Somerset and Dorset from Bath to Bournemouth or S&C from Skipton to Carlisle would have given us a decent length run to test our coal and water management skills.
     
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  30. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    All things considered I think length is something that'll develop over time, as the route builders grow ever more confident with their tools but more importantly build up a repository of assets and stations that only need to be tweaked or improved to be used again in a new route. At the end of the day, if you already have the station built, you don't have to do it again.
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Develop over time eh? You have a point but it's been nearly 5 years already. DTG should already have a understanding of the UE4 tools by now. Do they need 50 years to make route extensions or a route from London St Pancras to Dover Priory or route from Brighton to Portsmouth Harbor.
     
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  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    They need an infinite number of years to do route extensions, because they are NEVER GOING TO DO THEM. Ever.
     
  33. dxltagxmma

    dxltagxmma New Member

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    Removed by DTG Natster - Inappropriate
     
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  34. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I still remember from an old DTG stream them saying that 'longer routes is not a problem' which makes it sound likely but when they followed it by saying 'the route has to be interesting' made me deflated at the time as that is very subjective.
     
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  35. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    This makes me wonder how fast the Rocky Mountaineer train goes on that line now that it's now operating to and from Moab on the Cane Creek Branch. Is it the usual 10mph over freight, or are they stuck with the freight limit...
    33-train-main-1024x683.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Given that it's a scenic run with opportunities for photo ops and travels through narrow sandstone canyons with potential for rock falls AND takes 2 days to travel the 430 miles from Moab to Denver AND looks like an old, worn track bed in parts.

    I'm thinking 25-30 mph for the Cane Creek section at least.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads (via Swindon Chippenham and Bath Spa) - 118 miles 25 chains
    Euston to Birmingham New Street (via Watford, Milton Keynes, Weedon and Coventry) - 112 miles 73 chains
    Neither really likely

    Bristol to Birmingham (skipping Gloucester, but via Cheltenham) - 92 miles 31 chains
    Not likely either
     
  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I know it’s not likely but it shouldn’t be totally out of the question now DTG are up to speed with the tools.
     
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  39. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

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  40. cali100001

    cali100001 Member

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    Bill, hopefully a new gaming company will start up and create Train Simulator or something and build full US and Canadian routes that some of us here wish for with a lively world of cars, birds, planes, real train traffic, real weather including tornado watch, hurricane, hail and blizzard, dispatch, fully modeled stations inside and out, realistic passengers, realistic sounds and correct ambience (city, forest, seaside, tunnel), customs at U.S./ Canadian border (may proceed after clearance notice, 2-3 mins though you can sit there for an hour) and many more wishes... in UE5! And by then, Rail Driver might come out with a new controller.

     
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And all for the low, low price of $399.95 per route
     
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  42. cali100001

    cali100001 Member

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    At least the cost of an average round trip ticket of $140 would be nice.:D
     
  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    full line routes don't mean high prices you know
     
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  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The user stated "build full US and Canadian routes..." For some of those I would say the $400 quoted would be too low.
     
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  45. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    How about a Schengen Zone International route example is the Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway. Even better 220 km 135 mi Duisburg-Oberhausen-Arnhem Utrecht Amsterdam railway. You end up serving two things at once introducing the Netherlands and making HRR Busy with a Bochum Ehrenfeld freight service following the S3 from Mülheim an Der Ruhr to Oberhausen Hbf.
     
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But " a lively world of cars, birds, planes, real train traffic, real weather including tornado watch, hurricane, hail and blizzard, dispatch, fully modeled stations inside and out, realistic passengers, realistic sounds and correct ambience (city, forest, seaside, tunnel), customs at U.S./ Canadian border (may proceed after clearance notice, 2-3 mins though you can sit there for an hour)" does
     
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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    One answer might be going down the ATS/ETS2 route (pun intended) using selective compression to create the illusion of a long journey, but in something like 1:15 scale (1:20 for the US). You get a representation of the key cities or towns and the scenery highlights in between but much quicker to make and drive. You might have to reduce the scaling slightly to be more suited to a rail network, but I would be quite interested to drive Euston to Glasgow in the distance of say 50 miles, if it was done well.
     
  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I would see not point in this in any game which touts itself as a simulator. That would be like a le mans simulator saying "yeah five laps is fine mate, don't worry about the rest, its much of a muchness!"
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    NO! NonononoNO!!!!!
    That's the very reason I played ETS precisely once and returned it. I have no interest in driving trains through Madurodam and calling it a "simulation."
     
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  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Oh well, it was just a thought… :)
     
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