One of the trains I got when it came out was the DTG BR407 ICE3 Velaro D But if you don't activate the PZB you cannot drive faster than 160km/h This might be like the real units but it spoils it for those who have problems with certain features No problem with going at 300km/h or faster with the ICE3 and PZB off. And as it is past the two hours before you try it it ends up as just another AI train Nothing against features but there should be an off switch Peter
As I'm not a developer, I can only speculate. TS being a simulator, its main purpose is to simulate real-life railroading. There have been a lot of complaints over the years for incorrect functionality of the PZB system on various routes and locomotives. The PZB allows a maximum speed of 160 km/h for a train equipped with the appropriate brakes to make sure you're able to stop your train at a red signal, or in worst case beyond it in a zone that's called "Durchrutschweg". (In the US they have the 79 mph limitation.) To allow faster speeds, your train must be able to know the signal states on a greater distance, as you may need 4 kms to stop your train then. The system that kicks in is the LZB (which requires PZB to work) or more modern systems like ETCS. This is pretty much automatic drive and in conjunction with the AFB (automatic speed and brakes) you can relax and just enjoy the view. If the PZB does not work, you're only allowed up to 50 km/h. (Driving on sight) So a developer's goal for a simulator is to simulate the real thing - which is perfectly reasonable. As far as your issue is concerned, I think it would require a feature to have it turned off on game level, like an "Arcade" mode selectable in the game options to override the developer's scripts.
Except this train is drivable up to 100mph/160km/h The feature to turn on or off PZB is in virtually all releases from DTG, Virtual Railroads, RSSLO to name but three. Virtual Railroads have made a good reputation of making locomotives all have which have the relative safety features But they are selectable because they know if they went down the line (pun intended) of enforcing them they would lose a lot of customers. It is not "overriding the developer's scripts" as the developer has included the feature In the Script This BR407 is one of a very few where you either switch it on or don't use it above a certain speed. Peter
I don't have the 407 and am a bit surprised it is limited. Just like the Class 91 on York-Peterborough where you can't disable the DVD/DSD.
Fun fact: the 407 Velaro uses the same vR scripts because it was technically made by me (i also did all the vR expert line stuff if you dont know). The goal is always to make it as prototypical as possible. And some of the newer vR locos with AFB and LZB are doing the same as the 407 (same script base).
I have a problem with the RSSLO OBB1063 electric shunter. There is one switch in the start up that I just cannot master, again there is no "bypass" and so I have an expensive piece of scenery. The all singing and dancing prototypical simulation is great in the training room but not all users of TS20xx are equally adept and the designers of the DLC should take this in account, not leave it out but allow the user the choice. We are the customers and I have been led to believe "the customer is always right" (except when they are not).
Thanks for the info, Maik. I've learnt the ropes on Loksim3D and Zusi3. Wouldn't wanna play without correct systems. And for flight sims, I'm eager to learn all systems and switches of the X-Plane 11 Boeing 737 (Zibo). But I can understand not everybody wants to get into this. It can be highly complicated (überlagerte Beeinflussung, unerlaubte Befreiung, LZB Entlassung mit anschliessender 1000Hz-Beeinflussung z.B.) So I think it would appeal to more players if there was, like in some steam loco DLCs, a Standard and Advanced version of the locos.
I understand the desire to get things as prototypical as possible. But the ability to just switch the systems off for those who have problems using them is appreciated. I know a friend who disables the DSD sound on UK trains as he cannot hear it. I have purchased a number of the Expert Line vR locos, 103, 110, 181.2, 218 etc and I can run any of them without PZB So the scripts on those must be different from the BR407 Is it asking too much to still have the choice of how we run what we purchase? Peter
PZB I think is a special case - it may be prototypical to have limits on speed without PZB, but there is a steep learning curve for the system and it is helpful for newbies to practice reacting to signals without PZB active. Also, Matt has recommended such an approach and also that SIFA not be active when learning PZB because of the potential for distraction. As a matter of personal preference I normally do not use SIFA or DSD. As for learning the Zibo 737, you would not do it without an advanced checklist - something more or less totally missing from TSW.
They are not using the same script base. They all use V2 of my script pack and the 407 uses V3 what is the same as on the vR 101,145,146,ET403,185,152. And of course, you can disable PZB and LZB as usual. They are already switched off and you have to turn them on. What you mean is that you can't run faster than 160 WITH AFB activated and not using LZB or have no active LZB monitoring. If you want to run faster without being under active LZB you have to turn off PZB and AFB unfortunately.
Come on Peter. Pzb is a funpacked family friendly system ;-) (As you know i love pzb, find it easy and fun to drive with)
Does that mean I can run the BR407 above 160 with everything off - a compromise I suppose I will stick with the HRQ Taurus which lets me do 230km/h with PZB off, AFB and LZB on.
Newbie question here : what is PZB, AFB and LZB. You guys obviously know, but us mere mortals don't ! Jerry
In simplest terms they are German train control safety features for specific speeds such that they alert and then apply braking if required.
PZB and LZB are Signalling Systems found on German Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punktförmige_Zugbeeinflussung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linienzugbeeinflussung AFB is a Cruise Control system Peter
Don’t be afraid to ask! Pzb and Lzb are trainprotection systems. Pzb is driveroperated. Basically you tell the onboard computer that you are aware of restrictions ahead of you. Red signals and speed restrictions. You do this by pressing the acknowledge button when passing a warning. If tou don’t (or if you don’t adhere to the braking curve afterwards) your train will emergency brake. Called a Zwangsbremsung. Trivia; the PZB system is from the start of the thirties, and along with the Swiss ZUB, the oldest train protection systems invented. And amazingly still widely in use. Lzb is for highspeed trains/routes, and basically it drives the train for you. AFB is a speed cruisecontrol. Not all trains are equipped with AFB.
749006 Peter, i am going to gently correct you. Hope it’s ok. PZB and LZB are not signalling systems, but train protection systems. Those systems do not show any incab signalling, but rule how you handle the train, when you encounter a restrictive signal. The German signalling systems are H/V, Ks, HL and Sk. Those are names of the 4 different trackside signal systems in Germany. (Sk signals are VERY rare btw). All of EU (and Switzerland) are moving towards an integrated incab signal and trainprotection system ETSC which will eventually do away with all trackside systems. So i guess you can count ETSC as the fifth German signal system.
Sk signals were a test, I think they only exist between Augsburg and Donauwoerth (included in Zusi 3)
That’s correct. But since they are in use, they are a bonafide for real signalling system. And counted as such.
Thanks Kim Olesen for the correction I should have said PZB is the equivalent to the AWS in the UK as it gives information on Signals and some Speed Restrictions Except is is more restrictive to the driver than UK Signals Is that because the UK Drivers have to know where they are and German drivers drive from a book and don't know where they are? We don't have the equivalent of a Buchfahrplane in the UK. Peter
Yes. That’s one of two reasons. The other being that the German tendency towards bureaucracy has manifested itself in their trainprotection system. Germans will have to forgive me for that assumption. The Swiss traindrivers can also drive with a buchfahrplan, but ZUB is simpler. Romania uses PZB too btw. As does Israel. And ofcourse Austria. If you do not have route knowledge you are restricted to max 100kmh in Germany.
I might correct you on this, as route knowledge is also required in Germany. But systems like EBuLa (Electronic timetable & Slow Speed Sections) make it a lot easier.
Well, yes and no. There is a hole in the rules that is used to byfreight operators who then follows paragraph #2, which you can read here. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streckenkenntnis Then watch this video where it is explained how the rule is commonly used by private freight carriers to circumvent the intent of the Streckenkenntniss rules. Basically the trick is to claim “limited routeknowledge” instead of none.
There was an Crash at Brühl where a train went thru a 40km/h crossing at 122km/h as the driver relied on his timetable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brühl_train_derailment
