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Why Do Dovetail Games Keep Making Routes In The Same Countries?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by stanbacker, May 2, 2021.

  1. stanbacker

    stanbacker New Member

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    It feels like every new DLC is just a new line in Germany with the Doppelstockwagen, a new route in the UK or a new freight service in the USA. It’s not that these are bad routes but after a while it gets really boring. I am not going to keep paying 30 euros for another short route in Germany with the same loco. I think Train Sim World 2 would be a way better game if there would be more variety and I also think that the game would attract more players.
     
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  2. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It boils down to cost and time to produce the route. A new country requires new scenery, new signals, new stock, new methods of working etc....

    In the last 12 months we've seen the first route in France and Switzerland, and hopefully this means more routes in these countries (although hopefully a better quality than what Arosa delivered).
     
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  3. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    And why are all the routes in the UK involving EMU's and set in the South...
     
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  4. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much as Lucas said. New countries require new assets, but mostly, new information. For the usual UK/Germany/USA trio, they have the easiest job with getting information and reference, as they already have good relations with the railroad operator companies from these countries.

    While let's say they want to go to Africa or Asia, or even just an eastern european country, it would be much harder to go there, get in touch with the local railroad operators, and so on. But hopefully they will manage to get more and more country in the game. Personally I would really love Japan.
     
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  5. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on how you interpret the meaning of the word 'world'.

    Some people take it to mean world as in global and therefore think there will be routes from as many countries as possible.

    Others take it to mean a collection of routes, which is basically what it is.
     
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  6. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Member

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    It is not a question that they do not want to, if not that they cannot.
    A new route means first the license of the railway company and the infrastructure manager. And some countries make this expensive.
    Then DTG will analyze whether or not it is profitable for them to launch a route in that country due to the cost of the license. Hopefully they bring more variety to TSW2, it would be great, but I'm not complaining about what is currently available.
    In particular, a Spanish high-speed route would be ideal.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    At the very least they could do Austria; that shouldn't present many difficulties (they already have Austrian/OBB content in TS)
     
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  8. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Right now it is hard for DTG to do routes they haven't done yet, because it is hard to get new reference material due to Covid-19. Plus it can take them quite a long time to create routes. So as the pandemic calms down and countries reopen, it could still be months if not a year or more before we see new routes in new countries that require travelling to get reference material.
     
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  9. lmcpfc2014

    lmcpfc2014 Well-Known Member

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    I think another reason is that DTG want to make a good profit and make lots of sales out of a route and sticking to the same 3 countries guarantees sales. I know that people would buy a Dutch route but it wouldn't get as many sales as a UK/US/GER route.
     
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  10. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Did dtg do some austrian content as well or was this all rsslo?
     
  11. Commiee

    Commiee Active Member

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    I think an argument could be made that it produces the exact opposite result. Although that's for people who value variety and not so much for a kind of playerbase that seems to only be into seeing route/loco No.294536 from where they live added with every new update. I'm still not sure what the proportion between the former and the latter is for TSW2.
     
  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to get some emu routes in the northern part of the u.k if they exist
     
  13. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    UK, Germany and USA are their 3 biggest markets.....this is why most of the routes are made for them. There have been a few deviations (ie Arosa, CNOS & LGV) so it isn't a 100% lock...

    I think we'll see more routes from those in particular as they have said multiple times they always want to do more than 1 route when they do a new region
     
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  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Although I'd really like to see new countries in TSW, unfortunately it seems making the same old 3 countries over and over again still sells pretty well.

    The only thing we can do, as a customer, is spending less money on these same 3 countries, and spending more money on anything that's really new. Vote with your wallet.
     
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  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Licensing, research - bearing in mind we are still in the grip of a pandemic which forbids or inhibits travel. The availability of a tried and tested market - why spend money making an obscure route in (say) India (also probably off limits now for a few years) which will sell 2k copies or London to Brighton which will probably sell that or more on Day 1.
    I’m the first to confess I would like to see routes from other countries - Australia, Japan, the Peruvian zigzag line - but accept the reality will probably not happen.
     
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  16. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I think what DTG set out to do was build up a solid base of UK, US and DE routes. Once that solid base starts to build up they’ll drip feed new countries into the mix (Canada, France & Switzerland).

    The global Pandemic has either halted or slowed this plan down, so for now we may see more of the “big three” than new countries introduced. In time this will change, I’m sure of it. But for the moment there are many routes from these countries which people will want before DTG stretch their wings further afield.
     
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  17. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Member

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    I think the same.
     
  18. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It's a bout cost for developing a route and marketing. Might be they have the biggest customer base in those three countries. Though, I think a Dutch route would sell quite well, if the do a good job. TS has a huge Dutch community, but DTG failed to get a market share. For TSW they have a new chance, many Dutch players stick now to TS due to a lack of TSW content. The most Dutch we have now is a text on the BR3636, that's all and that is sad.
     
  19. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Cathcart Circle? I suppose it is in the south.... of Scotland
    NTP, TVL? OK, these are original TSW routes but are purchasable and playable in TSW2.
     
  20. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    If you look at the latest UK TSW2 route releases...

    Brighton Mainline (upcoming)
    SE Highspeed
    Isle of Wight
    London Underground

    Then previously it was East Coastway...

    My main issue is the constant EMU routes. less so them being in the South. So Cathcart circle is still just more of the same to me.

    There's a simple solution, I just don't buy them. This long run of EMU-based drudgery has saved me a fortune.

    Next route I will buy will be the Cornish one, as it offers something a bit different.

    The UK rail network is amazing, stunning in many places, operationally diverse with loads of interesting trains. Yet all we get is routes where you can drive a suburban EMU on a stopping passenger train. Great.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  21. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    Im honestly surprised they havent done the ECML/MML/WCML yet, but I dont know if theyll be any better than the TS versions. Its a bad idea to get hyped about anything TSW related, its a live and hope situation.

    Im also just ask shocked a 15x hasnt made it over yet, the workhorse of UK rail for god knows how long and still in operation.
     
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  22. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping for a ECML or WCML but when you reflect on the WCML South route, from London to Birmingham is 113 miles, this about twice the longest TSW route so far. So I guess they might be a bit worried that if they only have a 50 mile stretch of it people will say it isn't enough, whereas other lines you can get quite a lot of the whole thing into 50 miles.
     
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  23. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    (This is IIRC and for TS but TSW has much the same appeal so I'd be surprised if the markets weren't similar enough for this to be relevant.) Someone at Dovetail in the Steam forums a while ago noted that the biggest markets were Germany with 13% of sales and the US and Britain with 10% each so there's something to that but access and licensing matter as well. Another 10% of the market was Australia but where are the Australian routes? There must be local developers up to the task even if Dovetail can't or won't make a route so something, presumably licensing, is preventing Australian content from appearing even though the subcontinent is crying out for local routes. But, if I'm not mistaken, that's a tin hare in your profile picture so you know that.
     
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  24. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    ECML KX - Peterborough is what, 75 miles with Stevenage in the middle, thats where I think theyll try and push first.

    Although it would be very very dead without 700s.
     
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  25. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t even mind it always being in the South, it’s the sheer fact that it’s constantly Electrostars, we need so much more diversified stock for UK content.
     
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  26. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I agree we need more diverse UK stock. I am looking forward to Brighton - London Victoria as I’ve never driven it before but I am getting bored of third rail/routes down south.

    The Midlands and North is severely lacking representation in TSW.
     
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  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Wales and Scotland too. I know we are getting Cathcart but it’s another short commuter route with suburban stock, could be anywhere.
     
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  28. Commiee

    Commiee Active Member

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    Sometimes the British will make you think that like Americans, they also think the world ends at the coast.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But isn't Scotland north of England therefore the route wouldn't be in the southern part of the U.K
     
  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If wcml was made and it didn't go to Birmingham, there would be calls for an extension to Birmingham
     
  31. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    But Scotland might not be part of the UK much longer if Jimmy Krankie gets her way, so that's another country added to the 'World' of TSW.
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So German players make up most of tsw2s sales from the three big countries. Interesting. But if 10% of sales go to U.K, U.S and Australia where does the other 57% of sales come from?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I like the electrostars but I would like to see different emu's. The emu's on the Southwestern Railway are different
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Scotland splitting from the U.K? Does this have something to do with Brexit?
     
  35. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm...
    Mrs Fandabidozie Krankie (Ms Sturgeon) has a passion for having a second referendum, where the right answer is for Scotland to vote to leave the UK and bankrupt itself be independent.

    Cathcart Circle is in the north of the UK (as people have requested), but the joke is that if Nicola Sturgeon holds an illegal referendum it will be in the south of Scotland; and people are complaining about EMU routes in the south.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  36. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    There's been a push for independence for a while from the ruling party in Scotland.
     
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  37. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you don't count us, russians, hah - we buying too))
     
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  38. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    Careful pal - you walking on edge of the knife with that phrase)
     
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  39. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    Also some/many of the quite big amount of German players just want to see german content. You can see it in the german Forums, where you have always the people going: ah, ze new route, but it is in the UK/US/ {insert country}, so i wont buy it regardless of the scenery, quality or new features. Of course not everyone (i enjoy the (modern) british or other countrys content) , but this behavior can often be seen there.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  40. Commiee

    Commiee Active Member

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    As long as I'm either correct, making a joke, or a mixture of both, not something I would worry about )
     
  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh I see. Well if the scottish people want independence, I say the U.K parliament should just give it to them
     
  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    My bad lol.
     
  43. stanbacker

    stanbacker New Member

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    I understand that it takes a lot of work to implement a new country but I seriously doubt that people will keep buying the same German routes over and over again. If they want to keep this game fun and interesting they should come up with a new and exciting new route. Personally I would LOVE a route in Belgium. The country has such an interesting rail network! How cool would it be to drive a Desiro in TSW2 (of course this is just my wish, I would be happy to see any route in a new country)
     
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  44. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall that being addressed (and this was for TS dont forget- I don't think TSW was even in the wind at this time). Given the availability of Austrian and Swiss routes I'd guess the rest of Europe accounts for quite a big chunk. Actually a few Chinese routes and trains have appeared since so it wouldn't surprise me if the figures had changed quite a bit by now- if Steam is available in China.

    Maybe England should secede from the Union. It'd certainly be fun watching the SNP, Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru all demanding independence from each other. (I do not intend to be drawn any further on this matter seriously or otherwise.)
     
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  45. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Active Member

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    Do you mean the TS Classic Version of Riesa - Dresden? Because there are not only PC players, but also console players (like me) who are excited to drive on this route.
     
  46. stanbacker

    stanbacker New Member

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    I know that there are still many people who are excited to drive on this route. I would like to drive on it too (if it wouldn't cost 30 euros) But aren't you even a little bit dissapointed that it is another German route with the same trains.
     
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  47. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Active Member

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    So first, you are paying 30€ for 3 routes, just like for TSW2 back then. If you want to see it that way, okay.
    Second, yes. I am a bit disappointed, but I also have in mind, that there is a pandemic going on and as long as we get different routes in a fair amount of time, I have no problem with waiting, till DTG can do some proper research on their routes and trains again and give us a well developed product instead of something half-researched-because-they-didn't-get-to-research-properly-stuff.

    That's my way of seeing it :)
     
  48. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Oh, no, we Yanks are quite aware of our myopic tendencies.

    Although it's much worse with New Yorkers
    [​IMG]
     
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  49. mailerdemon

    mailerdemon Member

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    That's very true and let's not forget that Russia also has a vibrant and very creative train sim community where some truly amazing content gets created! But with the way that Steam store prices are adjusted in different currencies (and apparently it's currently at -80% in Rubles) you have to buy a whole lot more DLC to make DTG happy. :-D
    https://steamdb.info/app/1282590/
     
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think that there are a great many design studios out there who could easily create content from their own countries (or even their own games) should they wish. DTG do tend to stick to UK, US and DE routes with the occasional French route.

    Of course Rivet, TSG and a few others will also add in their own routes and countries (Austria being of note)
     

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